NEW CANFORGEN - TPT ASST RES FORCE PERS ON CL A AND B RES SVC

[Haggis]

Someone asked me the following question and I think the answer is just the driver, but I don't get travel assistance so I'm no expert on it...If more than one member travels on Class A more than 16 km to their reserve unit (ie: carpools) do they all claim TD it or just the driver?

Ethically and legally only the driver is incurring costs to travel to training (fuel, vehicle wear & tear etc.).  Therfore only the driver would be entitled to claim TAA.

Back in 2003 there was a policy decision to the effect that you could not receive Travel assistance beyond 30 days,...

Yep!  It was a DCBA policy change.  The CDS Decision Letter quoted above clearly describes the reasoning behind this.  Not well thought out IMO.

The wording in the first line of the CANFORGEN

will continue to be entitled to the benefit until a new policy is promulgated

makes me suspect that once a new policy is enacted, Class B Reservists could, once again, lose this entitlement.

 

[NavComm]

Ethically and legally only the driver is incurring costs to travel to training (fuel, vehicle wear & tear etc.).  Therfore only the driver would be entitled to claim TAA.

Thank you That's exactly what I said, but the carpooler seemed to think I was out to lunch on that one.

 

[Future Pensioner]

Ethically and legally only the driver is incurring costs to travel to training (fuel, vehicle wear & tear etc.).  Therfore only the driver would be entitled to claim TAA.

Not sure if I agree with you on this one Haggis.  I do not see anywhere in the policy that states an individual actually has to "drive" the distance in order to claim it - it merely says "travel" the distance.  I can think of a few arrangements where someone could "travel" the distance and not "drive" their car - i.e. car pooling, riding a bike. So in so far as the "legally" portion of your reply is concerned is there something that you have seen that states this?

So to NavComm:  I would seek clarification from the BOR/ADM types on this before saying that it would not apply -and be prepared to discuss it and have them show you specifically where it says that an individual who car pools would not be entitled to it.

 

[geo]

Ethically and legally only the driver is
Yep!  It was a DCBA policy change.   The CDS Decision Letter quoted above clearly describes the reasoning behind this.  Not well thought out IMO.

The wording in the first line of the CANFORGEN  makes me suspect that once a new policy is enacted, Class B Reservists could, once again, lose this entitlement.

From what I was told by our fin staff.... you can bet money on that!
Modification to the policy has been written though not promulgated... yet

 

[exgunnertdo]

WRT carpooling - as a reservist in a small rural unit, we had lots of our members claim TAA, and many carpooled.

You are entitled to the allowance if you travel the distance.  It's an allowance, not a re-imbursement.  If you are not driving, you could be paying the driver per ride, filling his/her tank up every so often, paying for parking, taking turns driving or otherwise compensating the actual driver.  The allowance is for kms travelled - how you use that allowance to get to and from work is up to you.  No one has to prove the expenditure of the money, but you are signing a claim saying that you, in fact, travelled the kms.  For example, if you work a parade night, and then stay over at a friend's house, then work the next day at the armouries, you are only entitled to claim one round trip total, not two round trips for the two times signing in.

What is not ethical - is to bum a ride of buddy week after week and never compensate him/her for the expenses of operating a car. 

 

[Haggis]

Not sure if I agree with you on this one Haggis.  I do not see anywhere in the policy that states an individual actually has to "drive" the distance in order to claim it - it merely says "travel" the distance.  I can think of a few arrangements where someone could "travel" the distance and not "drive" their car - i.e. car pooling, riding a bike.

OK, let's say one of your soldiers owns a big a$$ van.  On a training night, he drives in with six other soldiers from 100 km out.  Therefore he's entitled to claim 168 km of TAA at $0.15/km, or $25.20 per training session.  Now, knowing that this entitlement comes out of your unit budget, would you, as a responsible leader, allow the other six soldiers, who have not incurred any costs, to claim this as well?  That's enough to pay one Warrant Officer or junior Captain to train for a day.

So in so far as the "legally" portion of your reply is concerned is there something that you have seen that states this?

No, but in my interpretation of NDA 117 (f), it certainly fits the description of an "act of a fraudulent nature not particularly specified in sections 73 to 128".

You are entitled to the allowance if you travel the distance.  It's an allowance, not a re-imbursement.

CBI 209.045 states that this allowance may be authorized. it is not automatic.  It also infers that the allowance is to compensate the driver.  It's nice that your unit can afford to grant this allowance to all your carpoolers.

So to NavComm:  I would seek clarification from the BOR/ADM types on this before saying that it would not apply -and be prepared to discuss it and have them show you specifically where it says that an individual who car pools would not be entitled to it.

Maybe one of our local JAGs would like to comment??

 

[Northern Ranger]

Does this still not only apply to those areas that do not have public transport, i.e.  Winnipeg, if you live in Winnipeg it has public transport, so since its you could take it you get no TA.  However if you lived in Gimil MB and your unit is in Wpg you can get TA on days that you Parade as Class A.  That was my read into the refs and stuff.

 

[FINNCO]

Does anyone know how Transportation Assistance affects Attach Posting personnel? For example, we have members who are going to school and residing in a different town, and parading with another unit. Are they entitled to it, and if so from where to where?

Also, I believe I've seen and heard a max entitlement of 80 km. Anybody know the reference that stipulates that?

 

[George Wallace]

CBI 209.045 - TRANSPORTATION ASSISTANCE FOR RESERVE FORCE PERSONNEL ON CLASS "A" AND "B" RESERVE SERVICE
(1) (Definitions) The definitions in this paragraph apply in this instruction.
1. "adequate public transportation" means public transportation that is scheduled at appropriate times to permit officers or non-commissioned members to work their allotted schedule and return to their residence within a reasonable time after work and that has the capacity to carry the work force. (transports publics suffisants)
2. "worksite" means a building or other place where an officer or non-commissioned member reports for training or duty. (lieu de travail)
(2) (Travel allowance) An officer or non-commissioned member of the Reserve Force on Class "A" or "B" Reserve Service who performs training or duty may be paid an allowance based on distance traveled, if
1. (a) the member has not been moved to their place of training or duty at public expense; and
1. (b) the member lives a minimum of 16 kilometres from their place of training or duty; and
1. (c) transportation cannot be provided from Government sources, or adequate public transportation is not available.
(3) (Rate of allowance) If an allowance based on distance travelled is authorized, an officer or non-commissioned member is entitled, for each trip between the Reserve Service worksite and the member's residence, to an allowance based on distance travelled at the rate established under paragraph (3) of CBI 209.25 (Use of Private Motor Car, Motorcycle or Airplane for Temporary Duty Travel) as though the member had travelled by private motor car, for the direct road distance in excess of 16 kilometres, one way.
(effective 27 February 2003)
Amendment 2




There you are in "Black and White".

 

[geo]

Does this still not only apply to those areas that do not have public transport, i.e.   Winnipeg, if you live in Winnipeg it has public transport, so since its you could take it you get no TA.  However if you lived in Gimil MB and your unit is in Wpg you can get TA on days that you Parade as Class A.  That was my read into the refs and stuff.

TA applies to people who have to travel more than 16Km to report into work
If there is a reliable public transit system that has a schedule that conveniently delivers an individual to his workplace on time & in a reasonnable time, then there is no entitlelemtn to TA.

Gimli MB... yes

 

[FINNCO]

You don't know how many times I read that CBI over and over, although I was unsure of Attach Posting since there is no ref in that regards anywhere. Therefore, from your "Black and White" answer, I can assume that his worksite his the unit he is attached to, and his residence is now where he lives while studying.

There is no max entitlement mention in the CBI, where did the max 80 km came from? Was that from way back and some clerks still believe it to be true?

 

[geo]

80km "rule" is something that would have been established on a regional level.

I had a sapper who lived in Quebec City and still commuted into Montreal for weekend (and some weeknight) training.

80Km is a reasonnable distance to travel.

Note that, though there is that 80Km "rule", you can request permission to bump past it .... if the needs of the service warrant it, you will get it.

 

[FINNCO]

Can Unit CO approve above and beyond the 80 km, or does it have to go to DCBA? Which brings me to another question that I forgot to ask, are members suppose to have some sort of authority on enrolment for entitlement to receive TAA? I was told that if they move farther then the address on enrolment they are no longer entitled to TAA.

 

[geo]

Not DCBA level....
Believe that deicision is at a formation or area level... check with the Controller.

WRT moving after enrollment and losing your entitlement.... I call BS on that one.
It's not like someone will sell his house, to move xx KMs in order to screw the CF out of a couple of $$s

 

[Haggis]

Can Unit CO approve above and beyond the 80 km, or does it have to go to DCBA?

As stated above, there is no 80 km "rule".  However a CO can approve any reasonable commute as long as s/he sees it as being in the best interests of the unit, is willing to pay the allowance and will get a fair return on investment from the member parading regularly.

Remember, this is an allowance which may be granted by a CO.  It is not automatic and there is no guarantee that it will be granted.

 

[exgunnertdo]

Now that this Canforgen has been out for a while - has anyone successfully completed their claim?  How does one go about it, especially if one no longer works for the same unit (or component for that matter) that they did during the period in question?  Do you submit it to your current pay office?  Same form, I assume, as being used for current claims?

 

[Haggis]

Now that this Canforgen has been out for a while - has anyone successfully completed their claim?  How does one go about it, especially if one no longer works for the same unit (or component for that matter) that they did during the period in question?  Do you submit it to your current pay office?  Same form, I assume, as being used for current claims?

Done and done.  Haven't seen the cash yet, but  expect it early in the new year.

What I did was submit a CF 52, with a supporting spreadsheet detailing the monthly mileage, rate and amounts claimed, covering all enttilted service from May 04 to Dec 05.  Then I submitted individual claims IAW unit SOPs for each month from Jan 06 onwards.  Why?  Because RPSR can go back two years.  Anything older has to be processed differently.

Needless to say, my director almost had an aneurysm when I submitted the covering memo for 45 months of retro TAA.

 

[geo]

.... meaning that, there should be a regulation coming down the pipes in the new year that will..... shut the door to this allowance

 

[Haggis]

.... meaning that, there should be a regulation coming down the pipes in the new year that will..... shut the door to this allowance

Say what!!!?

Care to clarify your train of thought, Geo, you GRINCH!!!

 

[geo]

Heh...
Well,

1 - regs aren't entitled to it, they get their housing allowance.
2 - reservists had it and it was taken away.  It was only given back, reluctantly, after the CDS had to weigh in on it, mainlybased on a decision that had more to do with the way it was taken away in the 1st place.

I can visualize some financial minion in his cellar dungeon working his spells, drafting & refining a new Reulation that will make the TAA unatainable by anyone....

It's a bit like how individuals who got TAA and suddenly get a temp assignment to another location.  You had to travel more than your usual travel to work to be entitled to TAA for the duration of the temp assignment.... someone is gonna mess with your xmass my friend.  I have no doubt.