Class B to Class C pay for CFR pers

[timstec]

Here is a bit of background. I am a reserve member who spent 12 years in the ranks before commissioning under the CFR plan. I have been an officer for almost one year now. I am currently a  Lt (6) CFR on class B which makes 170.32$ a day or approx 5109$ a month.

I will be going on an operation soon. G1 is convinced and has prepared a class C contract for me as  Lt (0) CFR which makes 4816$ a month.

How is this even possible to go down in salary? I have read quickly through the CBI 204 to try and support my arguement, but have not found anything.

Can anyone help, and let me know what IPC I SHOULD receive?

thanks again

 

[Eye In The Sky]

IIRC, they basically do a calculation of your full time service to date, and that is used to calculate your Class C pay.  I am no expert on this, and would assume someone else will add to this or correct me.  So it all centers around actual trg days you have worked (off your 10-07, IIRC) vice "years in the PRes".  Basically it is the same tool they use to calculate your PFTPS when you CT Res--> Reg.

A friend of mine went on 1-07 who was a Res Capt and he went down in IPCs as well.  After the 15% increase in pay from Cl B -> Cl C and his FSP, etc he came up on the plus side though.

 

[dapaterson]

The G1 staff are incorrect.  This policy problem was identified and recitifed a few years ago - the Class B/Class C pay inversion for certain CFR personnel, due to the way calculations were previously made.  You can not be paid less on class C than on class B.


You are governed by CBI 204.015(3)(c); that is, you were commissioned from the rank of Cpl or above and are beign placed on class C with 120 hours or more of notice.

Therefore, you are entitled to:

the greater of:

(i) for an officer who was appointed or commissioned to an officer rank directly from the rank of corporal or above, or for an officer in the rank of lieutenant or second lieutenant who is entitled to pay level “B” or “C” in Table “B” to CBI 204.52 (Pay – Officers), the number of pay increments that would have been awarded under CBI 204.04 (Rate of Pay on Promotion) had they been enrolled in their former non-commissioned member rank, at the pay increment determined in paragraph (3) of this instruction, and promoted directly to their substantive officer rank on the day of enrolment; or

(ii) the pay increment that is closest to but not less than the rate of pay they would have received in their employed rank, pay level and trade group, as applicable, under section 5 of this Chapter immediately prior to changing classes of service.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Interesting.  I recall talking to my Capt friend (who was a CFR from WO) on Nov 11th/07 just after he got back from tour; it was then he told me about the lower IPC/pay issue.

 

[dapaterson]

Your friend should have received the class C IPC closest to (but higher than) his class A/B IPC.  He should check it out - mistakes have been made in reserve pay; if there was an error he'd be entitled to retro.

 

[timstec]

Thanks dapaterson....so correct me if I am wrong... I went from WO (3) to Lt (5) about a year ago. Therefore I should receive the higher of :

1) Lt (5) CFR reg force

or

2) Lt (2) CFR reg force (making 5109 now... therfore round up to 5209 which is Lt (2) CFR reg)

thanks again

 

[dapaterson]

That sounds right - but go back to the G1 staff with the reference in hand to engage them.

 

[timstec]

thanks.. I will... makes MUCH more sense to me now.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

..and posting an update when you get a response may help others.

Bruce.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Your friend should have received the class C IPC closest to (but higher than) his class A/B IPC.  He should check it out - mistakes have been made in reserve pay; if there was an error he'd be entitled to retro.

Tks for the info.  I'll fwd it to him when I get back to work next week.

 

[timstec]

Here is an update. The reference It did work out for me... I will be getting Lt (5) class C, however one of my buddies who is a Capt who CFR'd about 3 years ago has major problems. He is currently Capt (7) in the class B/A world, but they offered him Capt (1) as he has about 1.5 yrs in the rank of Capt. They ended up offering him less than what he makes now, so he refused to sign his contract. Oddly enough, the pers said that they have contacted Ottawa on his case, and even they confirm that he should be a Capt (1).

He was a WO (4), who CFR'd...spent 2 years as an Lt and now 1.5 years as a Capt.

Any ideas?

 

[dapaterson]

For your friend, point out CBI 205.015(3) (c) (ii), that is:

(ii) the pay increment that is closest to but not less than the rate of pay they would have received in their employed rank, pay level and trade group, as applicable, under section 5 of this Chapter immediately prior to changing classes of service.

It's written to ensure no one takes a pay cut from class B to class C.

As someone who was peripherally involved in revising the CBIs, it's frustrating that staff still ignore what's written and do what they think the rules are.  And whoever they spoke to in Ottawa needs to have this pointed out as well.

 

[timstec]

thanks again dapaterson... I will be sure to pass on the info to him. With that being said is it normal that he would receive more or less the same pay, while everyone else who went from Class B to Class C is getting a substantial pay increase?

thanks

 

[dapaterson]

Short version (and even so, it will be long):

Generally, Reserve A&B pay is 85% of Reg F pay.  This does not hold true for Ptes/OCdts/2Lts - they get more than 85% as a way to lure them in (and be more competitive with the rest of the job market).  That's 85% of the daily rate - based on 365 days per year.

Thus, other than those groups, the majority will see a significant pay increase moving from A/B to C - going from 85 to 100%.

However, a small number of CFR'd pers have pay protection from their prior NCM rank.  Thus, they are already making more than certain peers - for example, your friend who has two years in rank, yet is paid as Capt (7).  The regulation I cited above was brought in to avoid the situation that had arrived in the past - a CFR'd Capt making Capt (7) (class A &B) went on class C and got Capt(1) - as it was based on actual paid time in their current rank, vice the pay protection.

The new method means everyone will get at least a minor bump in pay when on Class C - and no one takes a cut.  There's a small number of folks like your friend who see smaller increases.