National crisis: fentanyl & other super-opiate overdoses
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Jarnhamar said:
Yup... A number of police have been exposed and had dangerous reactions too. More and more of us are now carrying Naloxone on shift- not for the addict ODing on the street, but for self/buddy aid. Not that I wouldn't use it on someone else if necessary, but fentanyl has become a serious personal protection issue.
Brihard said:
Not that cabbies are in the exact same boat as police or other first responders, but I have friends who addicts tried or threatened to stab with needles (over money too ffs). Most people who are not high or drunk are fine individuals, but when they are fiending, high or drunk.. it makes the situation much more unstable.
I am happy you guys are carrying or are able to carry those kits. I honestly wish we could too (as far as I know we can not) a lot of people use cabs to go to ER, due to some ideas they have regarding 911 and who knows it 'may' save a life one day.. or not.
Abdullah
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In BC, instead of prescribing methadone too addicts, heroin is given free of charge; investigation reveals they do not like the high of methadone and sell it for heroin.
My relationship with my daughter is better than it's ever been," says James, 48. But James says it wasn't so long ago, her days were spent doing absolutely anything to score heroin. She used to steal hundreds of dollars' worth of meat from grocery stores and sell it on the streets. She even stole from Tia. "I took $500 out of her account and because of the lovely girl that she is, she never wanted to make me feel bad," James says. "If someone had told me I would do something so despicable — I never would have believed it."
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/crosstown-clinic-heroin-addiction-1.3779768
Doctors in B.C. can now prescribe Heroin:
Prescription heroin is used in some European countries, including Switzerland, Germany, Denmark, and the Netherlands, but it's been a long time coming to North America. The first Canadian study that tested the effectiveness of giving addicts heroin under the supervision of doctors was the North American Opiate Medication Initiative (NAOMI), which started in 2005. It eventually recruited 251 addicts in Vancouver and Montreal who had unsuccessfully attempted to kick smack numerous times. A control group was given methadone, which is commonly prescribed to heroin addicts so they can wean themselves off hard drugs.
The results, published in the New England Journal of Medicine in 2009, showed that injectable heroin —known in medical-speak as diacetylmorphine—was a far more effective and efficient treatment than methadone in getting users out of the vicious and costly cycle of crime, infection, overdoses, and hospital visits that are a way of life for those in the grips of long-term, hardcore addiction. Compared to those trying to kick heroin using methadone, participants used street drugs less often, committed fewer crimes, and were employed more often, more connected to their families, and straight-up happier. A "cost of illness" analysis from 2000 found that severely addicted individuals can cost society over $43,000 per year, so getting addicts off the streets and into roles as members of productive society is good for all of Canada.
https://drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=226483
Canada now allows prescription heroin in severe opioid addiction.
Health Canada has amended regulations allowing doctors to prescribe heroin to people who are severely addicted to opioids. The government says the country is facing an opioid overdose crisis and healthcare providers need help in treating patients suffering from chronic dependency. The change to the former Conservative government's legislation means pharmaceutical-grade heroin can be prescribed under a special-access program in cases where traditional treatment has failed. However, Health Canada says that while there is scientific evidence to support emergency access to the drug, the treatment is not an option for most people.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/canada-now-allows-prescription-heroin-in-severe-opioid-addiction-1.3753312
I found this online, someone looking for Heroin in Montreal and what the prices are; too funny.
On Thursday, July 31, 2008 9:44:47 PM UTC-4, drug abuser wrote:
> K so I went and found a homeless guy, gave him 30$ and he calls a #. I
> met two guys who drive in a car around downtown all day. They tell me
> 260$ a gram????? wtf Im sure Im being ripped off.
heroin in montreal is sold only by the italians who sell shitty dope at high prices, its usually 60$ for a quarter which is usually .15-.2 grams, we have good coke and the best weed, vancouver halifax toronto are all different because there is no monopoly on anyhting. vancouver is cheap for heroin and toronto is cheaper for blow and montreal has the best weed and blow.
Show trimmed content
je veut en acheté pour 50$ ou 60$ suis a montreal coin atwater a tu un no de cell que je peut en contacté urgent de en avoir
tann...@gmail.com
its 200$ for a full gram and normally an 8/10, but ya might get a finders fee which is around 20-30$ or he might take a 0.1 from your baggy...most of all stay away from music jumper if you find a thread with his name in it,,he rips people off for a living,,,a real fkn junkie......if anyone gets a hook up, i need a new one. my regular guy is in free room n board now lol so im dying to find a new good seller.
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.drugs.hard/gqAO4wwcEVo
The Street Cost of Heroin In Ohio
How much does heroin cost on the street? The price of heroin depends upon a number of different factors – including the type of heroin, how available the drug is to the public at a given time and how the heroin is “cut” and processed.
The average cost of a single dose (0.1 g) of heroin purchased on the street has been reported as approximately $15–$20 in the U.S. state of Ohio.[1]
The heroin price per gram depends upon its purity and the availability of the drug in the area at that given time.
Someone with a “hard-core” heroin habit may pay $150–$200 per day in order to support his or her habit.
The reason for such a high daily spending habit has its roots in the nature of heroin addiction. As individuals become more dependent on the drug, they build tolerance to it – meaning that it takes more and more heroin to get high. This leads to an expensive habit – and the constant threat of overdose. http://heroin.net/about/how-much-does-heroin-cost/#streetcost
C.U.
My relationship with my daughter is better than it's ever been," says James, 48. But James says it wasn't so long ago, her days were spent doing absolutely anything to score heroin. She used to steal hundreds of dollars' worth of meat from grocery stores and sell it on the streets. She even stole from Tia. "I took $500 out of her account and because of the lovely girl that she is, she never wanted to make me feel bad," James says. "If someone had told me I would do something so despicable — I never would have believed it."
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/crosstown-clinic-heroin-addiction-1.3779768
Doctors in B.C. can now prescribe Heroin:
Prescription heroin is used in some European countries, including Switzerland, Germany, Denmark, and the Netherlands, but it's been a long time coming to North America. The first Canadian study that tested the effectiveness of giving addicts heroin under the supervision of doctors was the North American Opiate Medication Initiative (NAOMI), which started in 2005. It eventually recruited 251 addicts in Vancouver and Montreal who had unsuccessfully attempted to kick smack numerous times. A control group was given methadone, which is commonly prescribed to heroin addicts so they can wean themselves off hard drugs.
The results, published in the New England Journal of Medicine in 2009, showed that injectable heroin —known in medical-speak as diacetylmorphine—was a far more effective and efficient treatment than methadone in getting users out of the vicious and costly cycle of crime, infection, overdoses, and hospital visits that are a way of life for those in the grips of long-term, hardcore addiction. Compared to those trying to kick heroin using methadone, participants used street drugs less often, committed fewer crimes, and were employed more often, more connected to their families, and straight-up happier. A "cost of illness" analysis from 2000 found that severely addicted individuals can cost society over $43,000 per year, so getting addicts off the streets and into roles as members of productive society is good for all of Canada.
https://drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=226483
Canada now allows prescription heroin in severe opioid addiction.
Health Canada has amended regulations allowing doctors to prescribe heroin to people who are severely addicted to opioids. The government says the country is facing an opioid overdose crisis and healthcare providers need help in treating patients suffering from chronic dependency. The change to the former Conservative government's legislation means pharmaceutical-grade heroin can be prescribed under a special-access program in cases where traditional treatment has failed. However, Health Canada says that while there is scientific evidence to support emergency access to the drug, the treatment is not an option for most people.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/canada-now-allows-prescription-heroin-in-severe-opioid-addiction-1.3753312
I found this online, someone looking for Heroin in Montreal and what the prices are; too funny.
On Thursday, July 31, 2008 9:44:47 PM UTC-4, drug abuser wrote:
> K so I went and found a homeless guy, gave him 30$ and he calls a #. I
> met two guys who drive in a car around downtown all day. They tell me
> 260$ a gram????? wtf Im sure Im being ripped off.
heroin in montreal is sold only by the italians who sell shitty dope at high prices, its usually 60$ for a quarter which is usually .15-.2 grams, we have good coke and the best weed, vancouver halifax toronto are all different because there is no monopoly on anyhting. vancouver is cheap for heroin and toronto is cheaper for blow and montreal has the best weed and blow.
Show trimmed content
je veut en acheté pour 50$ ou 60$ suis a montreal coin atwater a tu un no de cell que je peut en contacté urgent de en avoir
tann...@gmail.com
its 200$ for a full gram and normally an 8/10, but ya might get a finders fee which is around 20-30$ or he might take a 0.1 from your baggy...most of all stay away from music jumper if you find a thread with his name in it,,he rips people off for a living,,,a real fkn junkie......if anyone gets a hook up, i need a new one. my regular guy is in free room n board now lol so im dying to find a new good seller.
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.drugs.hard/gqAO4wwcEVo
The Street Cost of Heroin In Ohio
How much does heroin cost on the street? The price of heroin depends upon a number of different factors – including the type of heroin, how available the drug is to the public at a given time and how the heroin is “cut” and processed.
The average cost of a single dose (0.1 g) of heroin purchased on the street has been reported as approximately $15–$20 in the U.S. state of Ohio.[1]
The heroin price per gram depends upon its purity and the availability of the drug in the area at that given time.
Someone with a “hard-core” heroin habit may pay $150–$200 per day in order to support his or her habit.
The reason for such a high daily spending habit has its roots in the nature of heroin addiction. As individuals become more dependent on the drug, they build tolerance to it – meaning that it takes more and more heroin to get high. This leads to an expensive habit – and the constant threat of overdose. http://heroin.net/about/how-much-does-heroin-cost/#streetcost
C.U.
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ballz said:
Hi, no need for sorry; and you think by making them kosher will lesson the burden on ER’s, especially when in Montreal waiting times from 5 - 12+ hrs taking a year too see a surgeon or get an MRI, etc.? Hospitals are under staff in Quebec, ER & hospital personal are working under great pressure, not adding junkies sucking up on medical services, etc.
You believe with years or decades in many cases of drug abuse, it cannot have repercussions when you get older. My neighbour 47 years of age, drinking for years got stomach pains went to ER after test told he had advance stage, pancreatic cancer with only two weeks too live; died 13 days later. True anecdotes, studies from Pros., supporting that prohibition is questionable while the other side of the coin claims, au contraire.
Arguments for and against drug prohibition
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arguments_for_and_against_drug_prohibition
C.U.
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What a load of crap that those who wish to profit from legal drugs spew......so ingesting heroin and then jumping off a building isn't drug-related? Here, for alcohol- related traffic accidents MADD counts it even if your lips just taste a drink less then 8 hours before.
http://www.tdpf.org.uk/blog/drug-decriminalisation-portugal-setting-record-straight
Deaths
Some have argued that, since 2001, drug-related deaths in Portugal either remained constant or actually increased.26 However, these claims are based on the number of people who died with traces of any illicit drug in their body, rather than the number of people who died as a result of the use of an illicit drug.27
Given an individual can die with traces of drugs in their body without this being the cause of their death, it is the second number – derived from clinical assessments made by physicians, rather than post-mortem toxicological tests – that is the standard, internationally accepted measure of drug-related deaths. And according to this measure, deaths due to drug use have decreased significantly – from approximately 80 in 2001, to 16 in 2012.28
One can quote all the feel good drug stories about a country they want but here's the bottom line.... http://www.marketwatch.com/story/why-portugal-could-be-europes-next-economic-disaster-2016-08-24 ........if you call a country where drugs are more important then the fact your economy is crashing then enjoy the move. I prefer our children to stay sober and stay in shape for the future.
http://www.tdpf.org.uk/blog/drug-decriminalisation-portugal-setting-record-straight
Deaths
Some have argued that, since 2001, drug-related deaths in Portugal either remained constant or actually increased.26 However, these claims are based on the number of people who died with traces of any illicit drug in their body, rather than the number of people who died as a result of the use of an illicit drug.27
Given an individual can die with traces of drugs in their body without this being the cause of their death, it is the second number – derived from clinical assessments made by physicians, rather than post-mortem toxicological tests – that is the standard, internationally accepted measure of drug-related deaths. And according to this measure, deaths due to drug use have decreased significantly – from approximately 80 in 2001, to 16 in 2012.28
One can quote all the feel good drug stories about a country they want but here's the bottom line.... http://www.marketwatch.com/story/why-portugal-could-be-europes-next-economic-disaster-2016-08-24 ........if you call a country where drugs are more important then the fact your economy is crashing then enjoy the move. I prefer our children to stay sober and stay in shape for the future.
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It's all very tragic.
OD's are part of the job. You get used to it.
But, remember while we are saving that skell, we could be somewhere else,
People are growing tired of using tax money to have First Responders save those who OD again & again.
http://bigstory.ap.org/article/405ff26551734644858540b43a21019a/just-say-no-narcan-heroin-rescue-efforts-draw-backlash
"We give Narcan & the first thing out of the mouth of the person is, ‘Get the Hell away from me.’ ”
"You ruined my high " or "That cost me $$"
OD's are part of the job. You get used to it.
But, remember while we are saving that skell, we could be somewhere else,
People are growing tired of using tax money to have First Responders save those who OD again & again.
http://bigstory.ap.org/article/405ff26551734644858540b43a21019a/just-say-no-narcan-heroin-rescue-efforts-draw-backlash
"We give Narcan & the first thing out of the mouth of the person is, ‘Get the Hell away from me.’ ”
"You ruined my high " or "That cost me $$"
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Ain't that the truth. I've had OD patients mad to the point that we've had a full out brawl in the back on an ambulance because I've taken their high away. Now instead of giving the Naloxone in one big push we are just titrating to effect to get them out of that respiratory depression/arrest and at the same time still keeping them a little under the influence. Having said that I've also seen medics who also give the shot all at once to ruin their high. I've even heard rumblings of just doing airway management enroute and forgoing Naloxone all together but have yet to see it.
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ballz said:
"Self-righteousness.
Adjective. A feeling or display of moral superiority derived from a sense that one's beliefs, actions, or affiliations are of greater virtue than those of the average person. Self-righteous individuals are often intolerant of the opinions and behaviors of others."
Hmm, how 'bout that.
ballz
Army.ca Veteran
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Journeyman said:
Yes, the person actually bringing another way to combat this drug epidemic for discussion is self-righteous, nevermind those who can't do anything better than try to shout people down with "drugs are bad."
Do you have anything of interest to add to the discussion or are you just doing your usual post a sarcastic remark that the majority will appreciate and then ducking out? :
Chispa said:
Yes.
Chispa said:
What does the current wait times have to do with it unless you are making the assumption that legalizing drugs will increase drug use despite the evidence?
Chispa said:
Oh, I see, you *are* still making that assumption.
Chispa said:
Thank you. Finally, something. I find the arguments stronger on the anti-prohibition side, but at least the wikipedia article doesn't just say "drugs are bad."
Bruce Monkhouse said:
Wow... You really have to try hard to miss that point by that much. Marijuana stays in your system for 1+ week(s). So if someone smokes weed and 2 weeks later is in a car accident, and tests positive for having weed in their system, you are arguing that it should be considered a drug-related death? Do you want accurate statistics so we can find solutions or do you just want solutions that support your current train of thought?
:facepalm: MADD has a very deliberate agenda/mandate to create awareness of the dangers of drinking and driving and to lobby to reduce drinking and driving... you don't think it serves their own agenda to try and count things that are not alcohol-related accidents as alcohol-related accidents? Really? You think its reasonable to have a sip of beer, 8 hours later get in a car accident, and call that a drinking and driving accident?
Bruce Monkhouse said:
Wow, and I know you are going to explain to us all how their successful narcotics policies (creating less addicts, less drug-related deaths, less HIV, etc) has caused their economic woes? Because I mean, you wouldn't post something completely random that is not good about their country and try to blame it on their narcotics policies without some sort of.... support?
Bruce Monkhouse said:
That's nice tugging on the heart strings again. If you really want that, maybe you should unclasp your hands from around your ears put some critical analysis into it. See below, which was already posted but I'm sure you deliberately didn't read it as it might force you to have to put some thought into what you currently believe.
http://www.tdpf.org.uk/blog/drug-decriminalisation-portugal-setting-record-straight
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From a website who's only goal is to decriminalize drugs........Oh I read it....did you click on the "campaigns" button by chance? Nope, just another "wiki know it all" who, unlike a few posters in this thread, live/work the destruction that is drug use.
EDIT: ..and what I know from directly working with jailed addicts is they very, very seldom ever become economically productive again.....kinda like Portugal.
EDIT: ..and what I know from directly working with jailed addicts is they very, very seldom ever become economically productive again.....kinda like Portugal.
ballz
Army.ca Veteran
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Bruce Monkhouse said:
Uh huh... and Time Magazine and The British Journal of Criminology are all just a bunch of druggies that want to profit off of dealing drugs too, right?
http://healthland.time.com/2010/11/23/portugals-drug-experience-new-study-confirms-decriminalization-was-a-success/
http://bjc.oxfordjournals.org/content/50/6/999.full
Can you get those earmuffs any tighter?
Bruce Monkhouse said:
First of all, you don't know what my experience with drug addicts is, I assure you its not "nil." Second of all, paramedics and prison guards being able to see the *results* of drug use, does not make you any kind of authority on how to *prevent* it (see my comment on the Canadian Medical Association and the long-gun registry). Nay, it appears to make you incapable of analyzing it because you are so emotionally invested in supporting the current failing methodology.
Bruce Monkhouse said:
Now you are contradicting yourself. Indeed, jailing an addict tends to make the situation worse, that's why Portugal is not *jailing* addicts and why I am supporting not jailing them. We're the ones jailing addicts, with the support of yourself.
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ballz said:
Now you really show your ignorance........[in Ontario] we have help for those who truly WANT it. I know, its where I work and what I do. Just one catch,.....the inmate must apply and must be willing to accept change. Two things most say they want but truly only want a magic pill and not sacrifice.
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And before I come across [well maybe too late ;D] as some holier then thou type who has never danced the life, I have been in jail [the best thing that happened to a young me] and I have, when I was younger, delved into softer drugs. I truly used to believe going out on the town with two hits of 'sid' and drinking diet Pepsi all night was healthier then just drinking.
Being exposed to what I have been exposed to has certainly changed all that......
Being exposed to what I have been exposed to has certainly changed all that......
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:boring:ballz said:Do you have anything of interest to add to the discussion or are you just doing your usual post a sarcastic remark that the majority will appreciate and then ducking out? :
Previously, I thanked those who contributed substantive content because, quite frankly, this 'issue' was not on my radar. The people thanked obviously don't include those who believe that anyone who disagrees is 'just a bunch of self-righteous pricks that haven't put any critical thought into it.'
While I am now vaguely aware of topic, it's nothing I care to invest my time in; but it's obvious there's no need, since there's one expert here who has all the answers. You enjoy.
ballz
Army.ca Veteran
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Journeyman said:
That's a good try at twisting what I said about a completely different topic (CMA and LGR) and trying to frame as me calling everyone in here who disagrees with me a self-righteous prick.
Journeyman said:
Perfect. I look forward to the end of your trolling.
Bruce Monkhouse said:
Good try at ignoring that your statement that completely contradicts itself and turning it into something else.
You assume well beyond what you're capable of accurately assuming. I am not ignorant of the programs offered to inmates or the processes in which they get into them. My uncle spent half my life in and out of jail as a methamphetamine and opoid addict, and after being picked up out of a ditch with three stab wounds in his back, he turned himself in, paid the piper, and has been clean now for over 6 years.
I'm not ignorant to the programs, nor am I ignorant to how easy it was for him remain addicted whilst in jail (something you should know all about but seem to conveniently keep quiet) and how those programs had nothing to do with him getting clean. He cleaned up after hitting rock bottom and deciding for himself, the help he received from the system was trivial and he will be the first one to correct you if you want to use him as a success story to support your thesis.
You're not the only person that has/had skin in the game, stop acting like you're an authority on the subject and I just can't possibly have a clue. I genuinely wish to curb the drug abuse problems we face, suggesting I "wish to profit off of legal drugs " is just dishonest on your own part. Let's face it, the drug war is an epic fail and an epic waste of resources which has cost many, many lives. I don't know why anyone (except for drug lords who are making a mint off of this) would want to continue on this path.
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ballz said:
:goodpost:
Bang on well said Ballz and keep posting the information. Unlike some others who have to be the hall monitors, or constantly reminding us that their occupation somehow make them SMEs, you have provided good information and countred the trolling.
BZ
Jarnhamar
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When it comes to the effects of drugs and topics like decriminalizing or free injection sites in Canada etc.. I think input from Police, Corrections, Paramedics and those in the Medical field carry quite a bit of weight. I never even considered police and medics were at such a risk of secondary exposure and corrections officers get a ground zero look at this stuff without rose coloured glasses.Bruce Monkhouse said:
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