All about LTA (merged)

[George Wallace]

Hi Dan99,

If you do a search on Google for "navy.ca: LTA" you will see many older threads on the topic asking similar questions on how the benefit works, including answers on how to estimate your benefit, to your question.

- LTA

- All about LTA (merged)

-

And all merged now.

http://army.ca/forums/threads/21907/post-115083.html#msg115083

 

[NKoopav]

Just a quick LTA question.

Posted in Shilo Manitoba and flying home to Nova Scotia.

Got an advance LTA for 1,000 of the 1150 I was allowed for.

Ticket to fly home was 600.

Question 1 - Do I have to pay the 400 back. If so, do I give just cash, or is taken off pay?

Question 2 - girlfriend is coming home with me for the holiday. Price was 1200 for both of us. Is it possible to use the 1000 or 1150 for both tickets to visit my family, or will the military only cover half the cost (my ticket)

Cheers!

 

[Pusser]

You're only entitled to be reimbursed for what you actually spend on commercial travel, so yes, you have to return the $400.  You can re-pay by cash or a cheque made out to the Receiver General for Canada.  Cheques are preferred as pay offices don't like handling cash anymore.  It can also be recovered from your pay, but different pay offices have different views on that.  Your girlfriend's travel is irrelevant.  You only get reimbursed for you.

PS:  if your girlfriend is also your common-law spouse, you're not entitled to any reimbursement because she would be considered your next of kin and if you live with her, there is no distance to travel.

 

[mung901]

Hi! I was wondering if anyone can answer my question.

After reading CBI 209.50 thoroughly, I still couldn't find answer to my question.
I am single person, I do qualify for LTA since I have mother in Vancouver and father in Korea.

However, I would like to use my leave to visit both of them in one leave.

1) Is it possible to go to two different places in one leave.
2) If so, would I be able to claim tickets from Toronto -> Korea, Korea -> Vancouver, Vancouver -> Toronto?
3) If not, can I just claim Toronto -> Korea (since my father's residence is in Korea) round trip, and just use that money to get Korea -> Vancouver, Vancouver -> Toronto?
4) If not, can I just claim Toronto -> Korea one way, and out of my own pocket, get a ticket for Korea -> Vancouver, Vancouver -> Toronto?

Thank you

 

[Pusser]

Hi! I was wondering if anyone can answer my question.

After reading CBI 209.50 thoroughly, I still couldn't find answer to my question.
I am single person, I do qualify for LTA since I have mother in Vancouver and father in Korea.

However, I would like to use my leave to visit both of them in one leave.

1) Is it possible to go to two different places in one leave.
2) If so, would I be able to claim tickets from Toronto -> Korea, Korea -> Vancouver, Vancouver -> Toronto?
3) If not, can I just claim Toronto -> Korea (since my father's residence is in Korea) round trip, and just use that money to get Korea -> Vancouver, Vancouver -> Toronto?
4) If not, can I just claim Toronto -> Korea one way, and out of my own pocket, get a ticket for Korea -> Vancouver, Vancouver -> Toronto?

Thank you

You can organize your leave however you wish and go almost anywhere you want (North Korea is probably frowned upon).  However, in order to claim LTA, you have to visit your primary Next of Kin.  If your father is your primary NOK, then your claim will be based on LTA entitlements for NOK outside CANUS (CBI 209.50(9)).  If your mother is your primary NOK, then it will be based on LTA entitlements for  for NOK in Canada (CBI 209.50(7)).  Who your NOK is will determine how much you can be reimbursed.  Keep in mind though that there is no way to make a profit here.  You can only be reimbursed what you spend and there is an upper limit (i.e. you may not get 100% reimbursement of all your travel expenses).  More to the point though, yes, you can arrange to visit your father in Korea and make a stopover in Vancouver and arrange your travel in a way that makes the most sense.  Whatever itinerary you choose will not affect your reimbursement.

You should submit a Notice of Intent to Travel.  You're supposed to do this whenever you leave Canada, but it is probably a really good idea when going to Korea.

 

[mung901]

You can organize your leave however you wish and go almost anywhere you want (North Korea is probably frowned upon).  However, in order to claim LTA, you have to visit your primary Next of Kin.  If your father is your primary NOK, then your claim will be based on LTA entitlements for NOK outside CANUS (CBI 209.50(9)).  If your mother is your primary NOK, then it will be based on LTA entitlements for  for NOK in Canada (CBI 209.50(7)).  Who your NOK is will determine how much you can be reimbursed.  Keep in mind though that there is no way to make a profit here.  You can only be reimbursed what you spend and there is an upper limit (i.e. you may not get 100% reimbursement of all your travel expenses).  More to the point though, yes, you can arrange to visit your father in Korea and make a stopover in Vancouver and arrange your travel in a way that makes the most sense.  Whatever itinerary you choose will not affect your reimbursement.

You should submit a Notice of Intent to Travel.  You're supposed to do this whenever you leave Canada, but it is probably a really good idea when going to Korea.

It's South Korea  ;D Don't think I would even be able to go to North Korea and come back alive.
I have no intention of making a profit. I just wanted to know if I would be reimbursed even if I bring 3 plane tickets that are to/from my primary NOKs' location.
I'll double check through my chain of command and OR. Thanks for your answer

 

[Blackadder1916]

. . . However, in order to claim LTA, you have to visit your primary Next of Kin.  If your father is your primary NOK, then your claim will be based on LTA entitlements for NOK outside CANUS (CBI 209.50(9)).  If your mother is your primary NOK, then it will be based on LTA entitlements for  for NOK in Canada (CBI 209.50(7)).  Who your NOK is will determine how much you can be reimbursed.  . . .

The wording of the CBI has changed in the decades since I used LTA.  Actually, when I last used LTA there were no CBIs, it was all in QR&Os Vol 3.  However, in the applicable CBI, NOK is not used but rather "family member" and then defines who is the family member for LTA purposes.

http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/about-policies-standards-benefits/ch-209-transportation-expenses.page#sec-209-50

family member
means:
a.  a dependant;
b.  in respect of a member who has no dependant, a member's child, including a stepchild, legal ward, adopted child, or child adopted under a Canadian aboriginal custom adoption practice;
c.  in respect of a member who has no dependant and no child, the member's parent, including a person who stood, prior to the member's enrolment, in the place of the member's father or mother; and
d.  in respect of a member who has no dependant, no child, and no parent, the member's brother, stepbrother, sister, or stepsister.

It doesn't differentiate between which parent gets to be the lucky recipient of a visit from Little Johnny and, from going by this grievance decision, nor is it necessary to have the parent listed as NOK.
https://www.canada.ca/en/military-grievances-external-review/services/case-summaries/case-2015-026.html

The Initial Authority (IA), the Commander 4th Canadian Division Support Group, denied the grievance, stating that Compensation and Benefits Instructions (CBI) 209.50(2) clearly defines “family member.” The IA found that the grievor did not meet the eligibility criteria for LTA since he could not substitute his sister for a living parent. The IA also noted that no CO has the authority to designate an alternative family member for LTA purposes. On the issue of the NOK form, the IA explained that the CAF uses this form in the event of death, serious injury or illness and, as such, several relatives can be listed; therefore, the form is not used to determine eligibility for LTA.

Notwithstanding that you could visit either of your parents, my reading of the CBI is that you can go to "only one destination".

209.50(6) (Authorized Destinations) LTA is authorized for travel:
a. in respect of a member with a dependant,
I. by the member to their principal residence, to a spouse's or common-law partner's place of duty, or to a third location where a dependant is; or
ii. by a dependant to the member's place of duty or to a third location where the member is; and
b.  in respect of a member without a dependant,
I. by the member to a principal residence or to a third location where a family member is; or
ii. by a family member to the member's place of duty or to a third location where the member is.

Though the CBI does not specifically say that the journey must be direct from place of duty to location of leave and return direct, . . .

209.50(9) (Amount – Travel Between CANUS and Another Country) If any travel occurs between CANUS and another country, the amount of LTA is the lesser of:
a.  the actual cost of return travel by commercial carrier from the member's place of duty to the principal residence; and
b.  the amount of 13092 × OLKR, where OLKR is the Ontario lower kilometric rate in Appendix A of the National Joint Council Commuting Assistance Directive, as amended from time to time.

. . . in grievances that dealt with LTA travel such as this one, the implication seem to be that costs only associated with direct point to point travel would be authorized.
https://www.canada.ca/en/military-grievances-external-review/services/case-summaries/case-2015-107.html

The Committee agreed with the grievor that she should be paid LTA for the cost of direct return travel from her place of duty to her NOK.

While (in this case) geographical serendipity places one parent roughly in the path of travel to the other, and the CBI makes no specific requirement that travel must be in a direct straight line, the intent (or the perceived intent) seems to be that the journey is to be from one location to one other singular place where a NOK is located.  Otherwise, a case could be made that as long as the combined cost of the trip didn't exceed the max of "13092 × OLKR" (roughly $2683), an individual could travel from any location in Canada to any location outside CANUS where a NOK resided and then could continue his/her return journey with stopovers in any city anywhere in the world as long as the journey ended at the individual's place of duty.

I have no intention of making a profit. I just wanted to know if I would be reimbursed even if I bring 3 plane tickets that are to/from my primary NOKs' location.
I'll double check through my chain of command and OR. Thanks for your answer

Checking with your OR and chain of command before travelling is the appropriate way to approach it.

 

[PuckChaser]

It's South Korea  ;D Don't think I would even be able to go to North Korea and come back alive.

NOK in this case is Next Of Kin, not North Korea. The worderful world of CAF acronyms.

 

[ballz]

The wording of the CBI has changed in the decades since I used LTA.  Actually, when I last used LTA there were no CBIs, it was all in QR&Os Vol 3.  However, in the applicable CBI, NOK is not used but rather "family member" and then defines who is the family member for LTA purposes.

Indeed, the NOK thing seems to be language that will not go away and will most definitely lead to more grievances / sh*tty situations (like the first grievance you posted where the difference should have been spotted by the Unit's Chief Clerk / Adjt team as soon as that request went in). When I got to my new unit this year they did a briefing and I found out they were verifying your LTA eligibility by checking your NOK docs... not exactly good practice.

Though the CBI does not specifically say that the journey must be direct from place of duty to location of leave and return direct, . . .
. . . in grievances that dealt with LTA travel such as this one, the implication seem to be that costs only associated with direct point to point travel would be authorized.
https://www.canada.ca/en/military-grievances-external-review/services/case-summaries/case-2015-107.html

For some reason, DCBA seems unable to come to terms with literacy when it comes to LTA. I'm sadly not surprised in the least to see the stance they took on it.

Otherwise, a case could be made that as long as the combined cost of the trip didn't exceed the max of "13092 × OLKR" (roughly $2683), an individual could travel from any location in Canada to any location outside CANUS where a NOK resided and then could continue his/her return journey with stopovers in any city anywhere in the world as long as the journey ended at the individual's place of duty.

That is the case... there is absolutely no requirement to go directly there and directly back to be eligible for LTA... hence the decision on the second grievance you posted.

Let's go wild here... member takes his 3 weeks of summer block leave and flies from Newfoundland and visits their family member* in Toronto. Then flies to London. Then flies to Frankfurt. Then flies back to Toronto. Then back to Newfoundland.

*family member IAW the definition provided by the CBI

"209.50(3) (Entitlement) A member of the Regular Force – or of the Reserve Force who is both on Class B or C Reserve Service and authorized to move their household goods and effects at public expense for that Class B or C Reserve Service – is entitled to LTA if all of the following conditions are satisfied after 31 January 2011:

a. the member is on leave under QR&O chapter 16 (Leave), except under article 16.18 (Retirement Leave), article 16.25 (Leave Without Pay and Allowances), article 16.26 (Maternity Leave) and article 16.27 (Parental Leave) of the QR&O; This has been met
b. the member has a family member; This has been met
c. during leave, either the member travels to see a family member or a family member travels to see the member; This has been met
d. the member provides proof of travel to an authorized destination; Assume, for our scenario, this was met by getting their leave pass stamped.
e. the member is not entitled to a payment for travel expenses under section 21 (Home Leave Travel Assistance) of the Military Foreign Service Instructions; and
only in respect of a member with a dependant, the member is – for 60 continuous days – either entitled to Separation Expense under CBI 208.997 (Separation Expense) or absent – for service reasons – from their place of duty. This is not applicable, therefore it has been met

All conditions have been met, therefore the member is entitled to LTA.

I don't know why or how people over complicate this policy at seemingly every turn. Apply the test, if the member meets all 5 criteria, calculate the amount as it's written.


Don't even get me started on how they've somehow contrived that a taxi from the airport to your house / airport to your family member's principle residence is not included in "the actual cost of return travel by commercial carrier from the member's place of duty to the principal residence."

 

[Deleted member 89807]

Hi,

So I have read 209.50 and this thread, along with many others. I have been asking my chain of command but no one seems to be able to give a good answer and it is frustrating to say the least.

I am in the Reg Force, posted to Esquimalt on PAT platoon. I plan to use LTA to fly home and see my daughter who resides with my ex-spouse. I am looking to book my flight this weekend. The address on my approved leave pass in my house (unsold - place of enrolment) but my daughters address is obviously different as she lives with her mother full time. Will this affect my LTA being approved? Does the addresses have to match, as in be under the same roof during my leave?

Do I book the cheapest possible flight? I ask because the cheapest flights come with a no change or cancellation possibility, and lets be honest, its the military.... the next ticket category is around 50 dollars more expensive each way but still called Economy

thanks

 

[kratz]

Answer- IAW the reference, you are reimbursed to the maximum "Assistance" allowed on your claim.

Any costs above that maximum are paid by you.

If... you choose to purchase a cheap seat and it is less than your maximum claim, you Don't gain any benefit.

Due to the nature of the CAF, I'd buy the cancellation policy and pay the extra$50 out of my pocket. Hell, 90% of the trip is paid for by the government already, why cheap out?

 

[Deleted member 89807]

Answer- IAW the reference, you are reimbursed to the maximum "Assistance" allowed on your claim.

Any costs above that maximum are paid by you.

If... you choose to purchase a cheap seat and it is less than your maximum claim, you Don't gain any benefit.

Due to the nature of the CAF, I'd buy the cancellation policy and pay the extra$50 out of my pocket. Hell, 90% of the trip is paid for by the government already, why cheap out?

thanks for the reply, thats where one of my questions are. my only flight options are with air canada or westjet. its been years since i booked a flight  but it seems now that their is no thing as cancellation insurance. I have options of booking in different sections:
basic - no possibility of changes or cancellations,
economy - can change or cancel for a fee if i ever need to  or
flex - can change or cancel for a lesser fee

each option more expensive than the last obviously. So if I book the economy ticket, with the CAF still pay even though i had a cheaper option of basic

 

[garb811]

Well, that depends. As Kratz said, there is a maximum that will be reimbursed so that is the max. But the key piece is the CBI states, "the actual cost of return travel by commercial carrier". That means you don't have to shop for the absolute cheapest option, they will pay the cost of the actual ticket you buy OR the amount determined by the formula, whichever is cheaper.

Ref travel insurance. Don't worry about it. You have an approved leave pass to the geographic location you are buying the ticket for.  If your leave gets cancelled, you are entitled to reimbursement for expenses you cannot get refunded as long as they are actual and reasonable. But I'd get the slightly cheaper ticket myself, just for the ability to be flexible if I decide I need to change something. Those tickets also usually allow "perks" (if you really want to call them that) that don't come with the absolute basic fare these days.

Also, remember both airlines allow free baggage for serving members, even on leave.

Reference your worry about the addresses.  No, they do not have to match exactly. All you have to do is prove you were in the geographic location of your family member for at least part of the leave period by getting your leave pass stamped at a post office, police station etc.

 

[Deleted member 89807]

Well, that depends. As Kratz said, there is a maximum that will be reimbursed so that is the max. But the key piece is the CBI states, "the actual cost of return travel by commercial carrier". That means you don't have to shop for the absolute cheapest option, they will pay the cost of the actual ticket you buy OR the amount determined by the formula, whichever is cheaper.

Ref travel insurance. Don't worry about it. You have an approved leave pass to the geographic location you are buying the ticket for.  If your leave gets cancelled, you are entitled to reimbursement for expenses you cannot get refunded as long as they are actual and reasonable. But I'd get the slightly cheaper ticket myself, just for the ability to be flexible if I decide I need to change something. Those tickets also usually allow "perks" (if you really want to call them that) that don't come with the absolute basic fare these days.

Also, remember both airlines allow free baggage for serving members, even on leave.

Reference your worry about the addresses.  No, they do not have to match exactly. All you have to do is prove you were in the geographic location of your family member for at least part of the leave period by getting your leave pass stamped at a post office, police station etc.

Do I buy the tickets before submitting a claim for LTA or do I just provide the quote first?

 

[kratz]

With a signed leave pass, you can choose to:
- pay for the trip up front, and submit your claim upon your return. Pro Tip: ENSURE your leave pass is stamped at the destination.
(example: post office, police station, military unit) explain the stamp is simple proof you where physically here that day.

or

- print your quote and request an advance on the LTA claim. Use the advance to pay for your ticket. Follow the above Pro Tip.

**Edit: Spelling.

 

[Deleted member 89807]

With a signed leave pass, you can choose to:
- pay for the trip up front, and submit your claim upon your return. Pro Tip: ENSURE your leave pass is stamped at the destination.
(example: post office, police station, military unit) explain the stamp is simple proof you where physically here that day.

or

- print your quote and request an advance on the LTA claim. Use the advance to pay for your ticket. Follow the above Pro Tip.

**Edit: Spelling.

Thanks for the responses. I have one last question I was hoping someone could answer. I am on PAT platoon but have just been attach posted to a different unit as tasking for six months, while I wait for course.

Do I have to get another leave pass from the attach unit or can I just make them aware of the current one from my home unit? They are aware of the leave, but my pass has the home unit listed on the top. Just woundwring of it'll affect applying for LTA

Thanks

 

[Sub_Guy]

Do I have to get another leave pass from the attach unit or can I just make them aware of the current one from my home unit? They are aware of the leave, but my pass has the home unit listed on the top. Just woundwring of it'll affect applying for LTA

Thanks

No.  Your leave pass is fine as it is.  It won’t affect your LTA.

I am assuming of course, that your are at the same base, just a different unit within that base. 

 

[Deleted member 89807]

No.  Your leave pass is fine as it is.  It won’t affect your LTA.

I am assuming of course, that your are at the same base, just a different unit within that base. 

With a signed leave pass, you can choose to:
- pay for the trip up front, and submit your claim upon your return. Pro Tip: ENSURE your leave pass is stamped at the destination.
(example: post office, police station, military unit) explain the stamp is simple proof you where physically here that day.

or

- print your quote and request an advance on the LTA claim. Use the advance to pay for your ticket. Follow the above Pro Tip.

**Edit: Spelling.

Thanks for the help guys, got it all taken care of and approved.

 

[ladnav96]

Hey there, quick question here about my LTA,
I am posted to Esquimalt and am currently on leave in Montreal. My whole LTA was paid in advance already and I have my flight back booked for the 2nd of January 2019. I was wondering if I was allowed to cancel and refund that flight an fly back sooner like on the 27th of December 2018. The flight is about 90$ more but I don't mind paying the extra. Just wondering if that is something that is allowed to do.

 

[garb811]

Hey there, quick question here about my LTA,
I am posted to Esquimalt and am currently on leave in Montreal. My whole LTA was paid in advance already and I have my flight back booked for the 2nd of January 2019. I was wondering if I was allowed to cancel and refund that flight an fly back sooner like on the 27th of December 2018. The flight is about 90$ more but I don't mind paying the extra. Just wondering if that is something that is allowed to do.

Yes you can. All that matters is you were at the NOK address at some point during that leave period and have proof of that via your leave pass being stamped and signed by a suitable organization.