Wondering what BASIC TRAINING is like? Watch the video. (BASIC UP)

[George Wallace]

Both!

As was mentioned, by just about everyone who has gone through Basic Training, it is a time that will remain burnt into your memories.  Bone idle slackness and poor leadership skills and bearing will be the end product.  Once upon a time there was a VO5 shampoo commercial of a girl "who told two friends" and the screen was split, "who told two friends" and the screen was split again, "who told two friends" and the screen was split again.  This went on for a whole minute and the screen was full of girls telling two friends, and the images were down to postage stamp sizes.  That is what happens in Recruit School to the products of the Instructors.  Each of their students are miniature replicas of them.  Students Learning Under Guidance, (SLUG's as WO Decker used to say.) absorb all of this and as imitation is the surest way of flattery, will carry on in the same manner.  One rotten apple then spoils the whole CF, if in the wrong place and time.

 

[Danjanou]

So is it the posture that is basically wrong?

Or is it the way he dresses down the student? Both?

Basically what is offending most here is the posture and the perceived attitude inherent in it. Jacking up a student is part and parcel of the course process, if and this is a big if it is for a valid reason and done correctly.

Part of an instructors role is to teach an, motivate and correct faults. All are interrelated. Teaching does not end in the formal classroom setting. In many cases it is an ongoing thing often something is taught by example, this also serves to motivate and correct flaws. The instructor sets, or should, set the standard he /she and the system wishes you to achieve. In this clip while he attempts to do so his own personal behaviour, posture, and attitude negate any positive benefit. End result this troop has not learned from this experience or worse has learned the wrong thing.

I taught many leadership courses probably even more that recruit courses and I can assure you this individual would either not have passed, or before he did would have learned and understood to never act in this manner.

 

[Strike]

I find it very disrespectful for someone to be jacked up in such a manner in front of others, especially for such minor things like curling arms and chewing her tongue.  In fact, that PO probably lost a few points from the other students listening in.  It almost sounds like he was putting on a show for the camera and everyone around.  Just the face of the student when he walks off (as quick of a flash as it was) shows what little respect she had for the (ahem) man.

If you're going to attack someone like that, it better be to the benifit of the group as a whole (IOW, everyone is doing the same error) and not just to make them look like an idiot.  They can do that well enough on their own.

This was one of the first lessons we were taught on BOTC about leadership methods, and I've seen idiots like this from that point on.  They usually don't get much respect from their charges.

 

[ThatsLife]

Is it just me or did anyone else really dislike the music used in the BASIC UP episodes? I swear some of these songs are from Bugs Bunny. This definitely does not compare with the recruiting ads on television. Music is a definite factor when it comes to pumping people up to join. Many of you will not think so, but growing up as a youth in this day and age everything is about music and how things are presented...if it's cheesy, people will not take it seriously or lack interest in it.  I like the concept of BASIC UP but they're missing out on so much potential. I wonder if I could volunteer for a side duty of video editing for future projects similar to this.


edit: oh yeah, and why did everything seem so...lenient in these episodes? This definitely does not compare with my first month experience (yes, one month...I released, I am heading back in February). The instructors seemed way too nice, and I'm not just saying that because I want to be some hardcore internet lone ranger or anything. I am serious about this, and people who have attended BMQ should be able to agree with me that these clips DO in fact seem VERY different than the real thing.

 

[Eland]

My overall impression of the BASIC UP video collection is that it's a little disorganized. Instead of seeing the recruits undergo the whole process exactly step-by-step, you get a collection of vignettes. I was unimpressed by the PO who was attempting to do a beasting on one of his recruits. I agree with others his body language and general attitude was poor. If I were his OC, I would have called him on the carpet for this one and told him to drop the cowboy stuff. The purpose of basic training is not to break people down and then not give them any support and instruction in the desired behaviours.

By comparison, one of the NCM's who seemed to have got things right was the WO inspecting the showers. He showed the appropriate degree of disappointment and behaved in a very professional manner. Instead of just degrading the recruit, he said, "This shower is a shithouse. I can't imagine you or anyone else wanting to take a shower here", in way that clearly indicated "This is not acceptable, it's not up to standards and I know you can do better." The other one who had things well in hand was the RCR sergeant who was inspecting a male recruit's boots. The recruit in this case was exhibiting the correct posture and behaviour.

I also have problems with how Dumont responded. By week six, she should have been trained well enough that she would know enough to stand at attention and not move while inspection was being done. By this stage of the game she should also know how to address her superiors by their proper ranks, not just end her sentences with a weak little "Yeah". That's not a criticism of Dumont, but of the people instructing her. If she had been trained properly, she also would not be making the "googly eyes" that seemed to upset the PO so much. I mean fer chrissakes, I was in a reserve unit 25 years ago and by the end of the first week of basic training I knew how to properly address my superiors and assume the proper posture!

If this portion of the video is any indication, Dumont is going to need remedial training soon - she has just four weeks left to go before she's supposed to be ready to graduate. That's not a lot of time. If her instructors can't get her up to snuff in the next two weeks, she's probably going to end up a washout.

After the VanDoo MCpl left saying, "We will talk about this later", the PO should have stepped in and faced Dumont, then disciplined her. By standing perpendicular to her while reaming her out, (and worse, leaning against the wall) he was using body language that showed he was not in control of the situation and maybe didn't feel confident about his position.

My general impression is that the videos could have been done better. If I were contemplating joining the CF today, these videos would not give me a particularly clear (or reassuring) picture of what to expect.

 

[Magravan]

I wonder how much the PO just wasn't buying into the whole experience... If it was regular cinema, I would say that the performance was forced... His words sounded like he was trying to tone them down, and it was costing him. Rather than being confident and reaming her out with the vocabulary that he'd normally use, he was freakin' this and freakin' that... He just looked phony to me..

In the end, I pity the poor bugger who says "This isn't what it was like in Basic Up!" I suspect that it would incite the person reaming them to redouble their efforts, and their course mates to repeat it in mocking terms whenever the person had trouble with anything...

 

[patrick666]

Eland's post reminded me of a time when one of the recruits in our platoon addressed rank improperly.

One of our Sergeant's had just recently been given the promotion from Master Corporal. However, this guy was recoursed into our platoon after his promotion. We were in the middle of class, he asked a question but ended it by calling him a Master Coporal.

Sgt: "What was that? Master Corporal?"
Pte: *shakes his head knowing he made the mistake*
Sgt: "25."

So the recruit goes to the floor and does his 25 pushups. He finishes them and says "Permission to recover, Master Corporal!"

The Sergeant just kind of looked at him, smiled and shook his head. "Another 25, Private".

We still bug him about that.

Anyways, back to the regularly scheduled program. =)

Cheers!

 

[DeltaWhiskey]

Like most things in life, I guess one can never truly appreciate something unless undertaken directly by oneself, and not to base ideas on conjectures of a media type. If I were to watch hours of footage of the CF it still may not be any more similar to what I would experience as an individual.
As an applicant to the CF, I just don't want to set myself up thinking I'm heading into a cakewalk...but I'm smarter than that. 

 

[BKells]

http://www.army.forces.gc.ca/lf/English/1_10_3.asp?clip=Ep3_Clip_1HiRes.flv

Hahaha this MCpl is so disgusted with her by the end "Ugh, OK form up.."

 

[Sig_Des]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=77Ahdxk_b1g&mode=related&search=

How's this for a jacking up?

 

[Zertz]

Haha, I came across that one yesterday. Amusing, 3 on 1 off, rotating.

 

[NCRCrow]

Dumonts head warbling would knocked some of the instructors out in the ambush video.

I agree Basic up is very disorganized but that PO still makes me laugh. I am laughing as I write this.

 

[DirtyDog]

Well!

I just watched the first one, with the MCpl/PO and I am discusted.  It was poorly done.  The Van Doo could have done a better inspection, the student was in the way (Probably due to the Cameraman), but the biggest thing that pissed me off was the PO.  That man should be doing the pushups, (he sorely needs them) as he is a disgrace to all instructors.  Leaning up against the wall with his hand on his hip giving a student crap.  He should have had the decency and respect for the uniform, the job and the student to have stood properly and given her the blast of crap, not lean on the wall and saunter on by her when he was done.  He is in need of a good jacking himself.

Having been an Instructor at Depot, this PO was a disgrace.  His photo is deserving of New Army.ca Game (HEADLINES).

I'm just a week 6 at BMQ and that was the first thing that struck me.  Like a slap in the face really in comparison to my own instructors.

Also, that recruit is terrible for a week 7 or whatever she is.  wouldn't cut it in my platoon.  Not for a second.

 

[Magravan]

I haven't seen any video showing her passing

 

[gnome123]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=77Ahdxk_b1g&mode=related&search=

How's this for a jacking up?

I wonder what he did ha.

 

[medic269]

Ha ha I enjoy the one in the desert MARPAT who comes up on the right.  He doesn't really say anything so much as squeals in his ear.  Brilliant.

 

[DeltaWhiskey]

Actors...they're all a bunch of actors. It's funny how people act and react when a camera is rolling. I'm not in the CF, yet, but I think this behaviour is pure nonsense. From what I understand/have been told, the US military and the CAF are very different in terms of how they approach discipline (I'm sure there are lots of members here that can substantiate this), and undoubtedly many other things, as well.
I can see no need for "jacking up" an individual in this manner, or in the way the CF PO did. What good comes from it?! Can someone please explain in logical, sensible terms how a recruit benefits from this?...or is it merely about the machismo or bravado of intimidating a recruit?

 

[Sig_Des]

What good comes from it?! Can someone please explain in logical, sensible terms how a recruit benefits from this?...or is it merely about the machismo or bravado of intimidating a recruit?

Don't get me wrong, sometimes someone is in need of a serious jacking up.

The Marine one is too much...

The PO one, well, his points were valid, but the manner in which he did, mainly his posture, are what was lacking.

 

[Meridian]

Some of my thoughts:

1) I had an OCDT go through RMC Prep year with me, and get through basic, who looked quite similar to Pte Dumont here, both physically and in mannerisms. Almost scary really!

Anyway, my point is, the staff were forced to pass her. The plt did everything they could to not help her, and to bring her in-line; just didn't sink in.  People gave up.  Instructors gave up because the Navy needed another officer. She was passed on to the next bunch.

2) I sometimes wonder what it would be like if we were not a volunteer force.  I mean, realistically, these people sign up; have seen the movies, heard the horror stories, etc.  You would assume that these people have some sort of dedication in their lives.... 

3) The best instructors I ever had were the ones who sternly (but without ever yelling -or- swearing, explained exactly how to bring the boots up to par, then moved on to the next item.  No throwing, no insults.  I personally would have felt ashamed as all hell to let an instructor like that down.

3) The instructors I learned the least from, and, to a larger degree, the managers in the civilian world I have come to despise, all exemplified persons who lacked enough confidence in their own leadership abilities and thus attempted to shore it up via screaming, intimidation, and veiled (thinly) threats.  That PO exemplifies the type of SNCO I would not want assigned to me in my early years as a junior subbie.

 

[DeltaWhiskey]

Don't get me wrong, sometimes someone is in need of a serious jacking up.

The Marine one is too much...

The PO one, well, his points were valid, but the manner in which he did, mainly his posture, are what was lacking.

Exactly, Sig_Des. If the recruit/cadet/soldier was swingin' his gun around, endangering life or limb, or generally being an ***, then I can understand. I've seen a few of these vids, and it seems that some superiors just throw their weight around just to act "tough".
And, re: the PO, I agree. It's not what he was saying, but how it was executed that makes it so pathetic.
Anyway, I'm speaking purely as a civilian, as I said before. Perhaps upon entering the CF I'll see things from the proper perspective.
BTW, Meridian - well stated post. All points understood.