UNAUTHORIZED DISPOSAL OF COMBAT UNIFORMS AND EQUIPMENT

[armyvern]

Someone really doesn't know what they are talking about.  No one earns these items by "doing their time".  That means they are stolen Government issued items, not returned on Release.  If these items were Written off, then someone lied on a "Loss Damage Report".  Still a crime.  Fraud.

And, that is exactly it. He would have had to turn them in to clear (they're CTAT/ITAR items) --- that's NOT what's occured.

What occured is he either reported his lost or stolen (ie he lied as you said) and had them re-issued with a write-off occuring for the original items from his charge. Absolutely 100% fraudulent actions on Government paperwork and theft.

MOST likely though - he stole these items from one of his "buddies", perhaps even a coursemate; and SCREWED them out of their kit - making them submit MLRs when their items "somehow, mysteriously, got lost). Ni-iice. Absolutely 100% fraudulent actions on Government paperwork AND theft.

Yep, he earned his damned kit all right ... and every cent of it that gets written-off due to his "earning" it ... somes out of the budget that you ladies and gents are supported with. It may only be a 20 dollar widget, but take that 20 dollars and multiply it by the sheer volume of thiefs who abscond with YOUR stuff to make themselves a dime ... and it all adds up to quite a few hundred chest rigs.

Let me say it again, and be clear: I HATE THIEVES. There's no place for them in this outfit - let 'em rot in jail.

 

[Franko]

Seems he lives in Beaumont, AB....Edmonton MPs love to travel.

Someone who isn't in anymore is going to JAIL!

Regards

 

[midget-boyd91]

Now remember folks, if anyone living in or around Edmonton notces in their local newspapers within the next days or weeks, a story about an Ebay seller facing charges for attempting to sell Canadian Kit..... scan and post that story here. 

Midget

 

[OldSolduer]

I hope they find out who's selling this stuff.

I hate to burst your bubble folks, but the person(s) who are alleged to have sold issue kit on E-Bay may not do ANY jail time at all.
I've seen murderers get six months jail time, so a guy who sells stuff on e-bay may not get any time.

 

[BinRat55]

Holy Crap!! I just went onto ebay to see what all the fuss was about and WOW  I'm flabbergasted.  And it's not just Shirts and pants - there's ICE, IECS, bivi bags, LCV's, footwear - good Lord it's a veritable smorgasbord of kit that our troops badly need in theatre. How do people get away with this s*%t?

 

[Strike]

WRT the shirts and pants, take a close look.  Many of those items are actually fakes.  Same material, but there's enough of a difference in the design that any CF member can tell it's not issued with a quick glance if someone is wearing it.  Not illegal.  The other stuff?  I'd have to take a look.

 

[BinRat55]

WRT the shirts and pants, take a close look.  Many of those items are actually fakes.  Same material, but there's enough of a difference in the design that any CF member can tell it's not issued with a quick glance if someone is wearing it.  Not illegal.  The other stuff?  I'd have to take a look.

Yes, I saw the fake stuff. I was one of the first ones Wheelers heard from when they started manufacturing their kit. I know the difference - maybe you haven't seen many of my posts, but i'm a Supply Tech with 18 years experience - I know an NSN when I see it. So you go ahead and "Take a look" at the other stuff and i'll still tell you  it's real - i've issued it and worn it.

 

[Strike]

Yes, I saw the fake stuff. I was one of the first ones Wheelers heard from when they started manufacturing their kit. I know the difference - maybe you haven't seen many of my posts, but i'm a Supply Tech with 18 years experience - I know an NSN when I see it. So you go ahead and "Take a look" at the other stuff and i'll still tell you  it's real - i've issued it and worn it.

Going through it right now.  At least the AirSoft guy is easy to find.  Seems all his gear is his own design...thankfully.  Getting a list together right now to forward to my MP friend in AB, as that seems to be where most of it is coming from.

 

[BinRat55]

This is real:

http://cgi.ebay.ca/Canadian-Army-Cadpat-Gortex-Bivy-Bag_W0QQitemZ170256906562QQihZ007QQcategoryZ36071QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

&

http://cgi.ebay.ca/CF-Canadian-Forces-Cadpat-Issued-Uniform-Shirt_W0QQitemZ230285651725QQihZ013QQcategoryZ104023QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

&

http://cgi.ebay.ca/Military-CADPAT-Tactical-Vest_W0QQitemZ130251355461QQihZ003QQcategoryZ36071QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

&

http://cgi.ebay.ca/CADPAT-Small-Pack-System_W0QQitemZ140262930669QQihZ004QQcategoryZ36071QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

And that's just for starters!!  Yes, I do believe the AirSoft stuff is his own design with the non-treated cadpat fabric (Wheelers had to prove to us in Gagetown that it wasn't DND issued fabric when we questioned it's existence!!)

 

[Wookilar]

So...I can't get a small pack (in part) because of bozos selling them on ebay?

Now, I do know that some surplus stores have what "appears" (to me) to be the new issued kit, and I know there is (was , 3 years ago) a surplus store in the Edmonton area that had authorization for....restricted(?) kit...that's not the right word.....they had the contract for disposal of cadpat items (which has since ceased I believe?), nvg's......other stuff like that....

Could some of this stuff be old stock that was disposed of? (I know one shop had a couple of Mat Techs working for them part time to repair items and resell them).... I do not know what the current rules are for disposal through Crown Assests.

Wook

 

[Franko]

I hope they find out who's selling this stuff.

I hate to burst your bubble folks, but the person(s) who are alleged to have sold issue kit on E-Bay may not do ANY jail time at all.
I've seen murderers get six months jail time, so a guy who sells stuff on e-bay may not get any time.

I'm talking DB Edmonton.     

You can still be hauled in and charged for offenses committed during your service.

Theft of DND kit, especially OPRESTRICTED kit, is a big no-no. Bayonets are still considered a weapon aren't they?

Regards

 

[OldSolduer]

Recce by Death:

I wouldn't count on DB either. Nice thought!

The way the Canadian "Justice" industry works, we'll be lucky to charge him with theft under $5000.00.

 

[armyvern]

So...I can't get a small pack (in part) because of bozos selling them on ebay?

Now, I do know that some surplus stores have what "appears" (to me) to be the new issued kit, and I know there is (was , 3 years ago) a surplus store in the Edmonton area that had authorization for....restricted(?) kit...that's not the right word.....they had the contract for disposal of cadpat items (which has since ceased I believe?), nvg's......other stuff like that....

Could some of this stuff be old stock that was disposed of? (I know one shop had a couple of Mat Techs working for them part time to repair items and resell them).... I do not know what the current rules are for disposal through Crown Assests.

Wook

Uhmmm almost.

There was a surplus store in Edmonton that purchased a "lot" of scrap textile via CADC from R&D Section Edmonton.

When that surplus store opened up the triwalls --- they found cadpat uniforms that had somehow NOT been shredded as they should have been. DND/CF attempted to get these items back and the surplus store refused. Legal action was threatened etc etc.

Simply put, it was an error. A BIG one. A fluke. NOT the standard and certainly NOT allowable or legal IAW CTAT/ITAR regulations. Cadpat MUST be rendered unusable via shredding BEFORE it is reported to CADC, or before it is binned into the dumpster should CADC not be able to auction it off for us.

Knee pads etc came into the system in very late 2004/early2005. All after AFTER the Edmonton mixup.
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/25680/post-371668.html#msg371668

That Edmonton stuff was sold years ago. It's not the same stuff. This guy is a thief -- it really is that simple.

Any item that incorporates the "cadpat" pattern in it design/colour scheme ... can not be sold unless it has been reduced to - essentially .. rags.

 

[BinRat55]

So...I can't get a small pack (in part) because of bozos selling them on ebay?

Now, I do know that some surplus stores have what "appears" (to me) to be the new issued kit, and I know there is (was , 3 years ago) a surplus store in the Edmonton area that had authorization for....restricted(?) kit...that's not the right word.....they had the contract for disposal of cadpat items (which has since ceased I believe?), nvg's......other stuff like that....

Could some of this stuff be old stock that was disposed of? (I know one shop had a couple of Mat Techs working for them part time to repair items and resell them).... I do not know what the current rules are for disposal through Crown Assests.

Wook

As Vern said (just to reiterate) the ONLY acceptable means of disposal for anything that contains our Canadian Disruptive Pattern is shredding.

 

[geo]

...shredding - using a glorified tree chipper..... Vroom, vroom!!!

 

[1feral1]

Hello to all most joyous members.

Hummmmm,

WRT the TV, I had a look, now is this a knock off using the available material, and made as best to the original, or is it real?

Unless the item is seen, and tags observed and the material checked for its authenticity, for all we know these could be after market designs.

Secondly, WRT the knee/elbow pads. I am sure there is knock off varieties out there also, again are these real genuine ones or ones produced for the after market.

As for purchasing such items, when John Q Public purchases this stuff for whatever reason, he has no idea that this material may come from a questionable background. For a seller to be charged is one thing, but a buyer, who is showing no criminal intent on buying stoen/illegally aquired goods is another.

Ebay should in fact enforce their policies, but again this is difficult for them as CADPAT real anad CADPAT fake are in my opinion difficult to tell a part, with the exception of a well trained eye?

Ebay is a huge organisation with millions of stuff on line all the time. It is a hit and miss with the Ebay police policing this stuff.

Is it also worth the cost of tieing up MPs for such low cost items?

I guess its a judgement call??

Also about obtaining such items at gun shows etc, often items change hands several times, and again the general public do not know the apparent restrictions on genuine CADPAT items. I have even seen real stuff for sale here in Australia, which included NSN marked hats and pers cam nets, with NSN, all were in surplus stores in large quantities, so some how the real stuff does get out.

The nets in question were new in the bag, and I bought two. I also bought one hat, which i cut my grass in, love the kepi design, ha!

I had also obtained (through a Toronto based surplus store), two new CADPAT thermal blankets, with manufactuers and NSN, all legal like, so I wonder how these are being released.

My 2 cents.

OWDU

 

[BinRat55]

Let's be clear on something here - it's not the shirt that's classified, it's the IR properties. The term "classified material" is a nonnegotiable term for anyone employed in DND - to breach a security classification is punishable by imprisonment.

I'm no dummy, i've seen all kinds of DND kit for sale in much weirder places than a surplus store. It burns my ass every time. Cadpat however, every single pair i've ever issued and every person i've engaged in conversation about it, i've told - return it WHOLE. Remove the ankle covers for toilet paper - clean it and return those too. I've explained the reasons why and have even given out literature to some. But what I can't do, unfortunately, is police every single loss report that comes across my desk. I promise you and everyone who reads this - I will make an example of the first person I can catch selling classified material. 

Is it also worth the cost of tieing up MPs for such low cost items?

I guess its a judgement call??

Not a judgement call my friend, it's called duty and responsibility. Yes, I will tie up the MP's, the Log O, the WCWO AND the Base Commander if I friggin well have to.

Sorry if I come off a little irate OWDU, nothing personal I promise. This is a topic that is close to home for me.

 

[garb811]

I'm in the process of flagging all the items as stolen to ebay

Like I said before, please do not flag this stuff as stolen to EBay, report it to your local MP Det.  If EBay pulls the item before we get to the link it makes the investigation much more difficult for us.

 

[danchapps]

These items were reported for investigation to the MP's this afternoon. By whom you ask??? By me, I may be new to the job, but it pisses me off seeing stuff like this. I may be a hard ass, but it is part of my job.

 

[garb811]

These items were reported for investigation to the MP's this afternoon. By whom you ask??? By me, I may be new to the job, but it pisses me off seeing stuff like this. I may be a hard ass, but it is part of my job.

Great news and thanks.  The only potential problem now is having 4 files get started on each piece of kit but I'd rather have that happen than have this stuff slide between the cracks.