UNAUTHORIZED DISPOSAL OF COMBAT UNIFORMS AND EQUIPMENT

[Centurian1985]

I see a lot of poor and homeless people wearing parts of Canadian (edited - ack! Sorry Trinity!) combat uniforms (combat jackets, pants, old camo unit jackets), mostly because these items get donated to the Salvation Army and other thrift stores, and are sold cheap. 

Should we charge them for wearing parts of military uniforms and throw them in jail too?   

 

[Trinity]

I see a lot of poor and homeless people wearing parts of Canandian combat uniforms (combat jackets, pants, old camo unit jackets), mostly because these items get donated to the Salvation Army and other thrift stores, and are sold cheap. 

Should we charge them for wearing parts of military uniforms and throw them in jail too? 

Stop trolling....

He said it was illegal.. he never said lets aggressively go out and prosecute or even prosecute at all. 

Also, I dispute your claim.  Although I have seen a few, to say "a lot of poor" is factually baseless and
not plausible.  Being in Toronto for my 13 years, I have seen and worked many of the shelters set up
by the military and I refute your claim on what they wear.

Finally, you live in the country, learn to spell Canadian right. 

 

[Nfld Sapper]

I can't see the problem of wearing obsolete parts of the uniform as long as all insignias have been removed (i.e. name tags, rank, etc). But when it comes to the current in-service uniforms then there should be something done about that.

 

[Teddy Ruxpin]

I can't see the problem of wearing obsolete parts of the uniform as long as all insignias have been removed (i.e. name tags, rank, etc). But when it comes to the current in-service uniforms then there should be something done about that.

Excellent point.

At the risk of getting involved in this discussion again, I'll clarify why I believe that wearing current issue uniform items is illegal - the title of this thread is "Military Law/CADPAT" after all.

First, if you're wearing a genuine issue CADPAT jacket (for example), you're very likely in receipt of stolen goods.  This was a major issue here in Edmonton, when some items were inadvertently released to a Surplus store, but 99% of "real" items you'll find have been thieved in one way or another, sometimes by NES Reservists selling their kit.

Second, the wear of current issue uniforms is likely in violation (IMHO) of the letter of the Criminal Code section regarding such things (quoted above), particularly if badges and ranks are worn.  This is not an issue with regards to surplus obsolete uniforms that have been disposed of in accordance with regulations.  If someone wants to wear a "bus driver" jacket or the old "garrison dress" (although I cannot imagine why!), they can fill their boots.

Trinity's right - this is never prosecuted and I'm not sure it would be a good application of resources.  However, by the letter of the law...  :-\

Frankly, I'm still mystified as to how wearing a piece of uniform shows "support" for the CF and suspect that the idea has more "walt" than "supporter" behind it.

TR

 

[Centurian1985]

Stop trolling....

He said it was illegal.. he never said lets aggressively go out and prosecute or even prosecute at all. 

Also, I dispute your claim.  Although I have seen a few, to say "a lot of poor" is factually baseless and
not plausible.  Being in Toronto for my 13 years, I have seen and worked many of the shelters set up
by the military and I refute your claim on what they wear.

Finally, you live in the country, learn to spell Canadian right. 

Trolling - no; I went back and reread the thread and it appears that two key statements were referring only to CADPAT.  My error. Mouth engaged before brain processed.

Illegal - what is the point of making an action illegal if you are not going to enforce it and prosecute offenders? Hmmm...deterence only then?

Claim - ok, 'a lot' is subjective and open to interpretation... however, I see it in this town...it would be credible to say up to 2-4% of those visible to the general public, between 1 in 50 and 1 in 25 persons from economically challenged backgrounds wearing some type or part of an old military uniform.  Average income here is less than $30,000 per year across a population of 140,000 people. 

Spelling - I deserve a smack for that one! I have fixed my error, must have been hit with typodyslexia on that one... 

Trinity - the padre sure knows how to come out swinging! 

 

[wakingheart]

My 2cents,

On the subject of supporting the military as a "Fan" wearing complete CADPAT gear, this is unacceptable even from a civilian perspective. Unless of course the uniform is severely modified, it would be unethical to deny a means of expression to a Canadian Citizen. During Vietnam they where widely used as a means of Anti-War protest..whether of not a particular individual agrees is irrelevant and the right to be used for political demonstration should be preserved so long as it is modified and it does not present a threat to National security.

What is the intention on the legal issues surrounding CADPAT, Theft for one and a security necessity. There is a large security issue of civilian impersonating soldiers, there are many applications that would be detrimental towards society because of the authority the uniform represents. In this respect I think this law is completely accurate and justified.

Though I do not think it should apply to Paintball/Airsoft players, as camouflage is a necessity of these sports but they should not be worn off the field. Though they should have noticeable different epaulets, shoulder titles.... so as to distinguish as much as possible from the Canadian forces uniforms.

As to the comment on homeless individuals, I doubt that there is any risk of them being misinterpreted as a member of the Canadian forces. The only liability I could see would be Veteran impersonation. Which all be it insulting, would be ridiculous to in-force.

 

[niner domestic]

On a slightly off topic but minor poi nt...In the US, 1/3 of homeless persons have served their country.  So the next time you pass what you consider a homeless person wearing any surplused gear, stop and ask if they are a CF or foreign military member.  You'd be surprised at how many are.  If knowing that a homeless person who is wearing surplused mil gear is a former member of any military change your mind?
http://www1.va.gov/homeless/page.cfm?pg=1

Oh and female vets are becoming the fastest growing group of homeless persons.  Scary and very sad.

 

[armyvern]

Please say it isn't so. We've just re-opened a six month old thread again today to beat around a topic that's been beaten to death in so many threads here it's crazy. Go to the clothing threads....they almost all eventually bring this topic up....as do the cadet threads.

The laws/rules etc and their enforcement/lack there-of have been bandied about and quoted numerous times already. I'm over it already....and I'm a Supply Tech.

 

[George Wallace]

Just to refresh everyone's memories, after EbaySeller began SPAMMING the site with items that (s)he was selling on Ebay.

 

[medaid]

There are WAY too many issued items and kits on eBay. I looked through it and I can say there are a fair bit of kit that should NOT have ended up there.

 

[George Wallace]

There are WAY too many issued items and kits on eBay. I looked through it and I can say there are a fair bit of kit that should NOT have ended up there.

Did you take note of who was selling the kit?  Was this kit being sold by several different people/'collectors', or are they all being sold by the same person?  Do you have the MPs on Speed Dial? 

 

[Franko]

There are WAY too many issued items and kits on eBay. I looked through it and I can say there are a fair bit of kit that should NOT have ended up there.

That's because it's more than likely stolen kit.

Regards

 

[Strike]

I sent the following to the seller (EBay Seller here):

Dear 780_collingwood,

I would like to know how you cam about the tac vest, knee/elbow pads, snow shoes, and bayonet, as they are all still in the current scale of issue for the military. Did you get these through legitimate means?

The reply:

They are mine I did my time and earned them

Anyone have the number for the MPs in Edmonton?  Seems the seller is located in AB.

 

[Nfld Sapper]

Military Police -  973-4011 Ext 4044

 

[Franko]

They are mine I did my time and earned them

How the hell do you earn kit?

Oh, I get it....just don't turn it in.     

Regards

 

[George Wallace]

They are mine I did my time and earned them

Someone really doesn't know what they are talking about.  No one earns these items by "doing their time".  That means they are stolen Government issued items, not returned on Release.  If these items were Written off, then someone lied on a "Loss Damage Report".  Still a crime.  Fraud.

 

[Strike]

Just sent a message (via Facebook) to a friend who's an MP over there, along with links to the item.

 

[Nfld Sapper]

I'm in the process of flagging all the items as stolen to ebay

 

[armyvern]

I sent the following to the seller (EBay Seller here):

The reply:

Anyone have the number for the MPs in Edmonton?  Seems the seller is located in AB.

Ohhhh

Thank you so much for the Dear (and it's follow-up)  

Such numpty people some thieves are.

There's a sup tech out there in Edmonton who's reporting it this morning. As soon as he logs in here --- I'm sure he'll be viewing this thread to pick up the pertinent info from your post.

Thanks muchly.

 

[George Wallace]

Just a note:

I removed both Topics this morning.  Mike removed the Links in them last night.