UNAUTHORIZED DISPOSAL OF COMBAT UNIFORMS AND EQUIPMENT

[PViddy]

Huh?  I clearly state my previous unit and MOC.  I didn't put my rank but it was CPL

Indeed, but it does not say "former" or "ex" or any other word to denote a pass tense....anyways, your an ex reservist....neat. 

weather your subject to the QR & O's or not, personally i think wearing a cadpat jacket with jeans or whatever to show support would look kinda dumb, as well as bring discredit to the uniform. 
Buy a t-shirt or those yellow stickers they have at the CANNEX that says "we support our troops" i think that would get the message across ?

cheers

PV

 

[mrcpu]

Quite true, but they ARE governed by Criminal law:  Section 419 of the Canadian Criminal Code (http://lois.justice.gc.ca/en/C-46/267591.html#Section-419) reads, in part:

"419. Every one who without lawful authority, the proof of which lies on him,

(a) wears a uniform of the Canadian Forces or any other naval, army or air force or a uniform that is so similar to the uniform of any of those forces that it is likely to be mistaken therefor,....

....is guilty of an offence punishable on summary conviction."

Well if you read the whole thing again it says "that it is likely to be mistaken"  the idea here is not to prevent someone from wearing a surplus jacket of any kind but to prevent someone from dressing up in complete combats or other uniform and being mistaken for a member of the CF (or other military).  One might argue that a cadet in uniform is probably mistaken for a CF member by 50% of the population that ass-um-e from the uniform. 

I  would bet that no judge in the whole country would convict someone under this particular section for walking around with a combat jacket on and a pair of jeans or a CF bushcap etc.

My biggest issue with this topic is the whole double standard that seems to be applied between CADPAT and other uniform parts. 

 

[mrcpu]

Indeed, but it does not say "former" or "ex" or any other word to denote a pass tense....anyways, your an ex reservist....neat. 

weather your subject to the QR & O's or not, personally i think wearing a cadpat jacket with jeans or whatever to show support would look kinda dumb, as well as bring discredit to the uniform. 
Buy a t-shirt or those yellow stickers they have at the CANNEX that says "we support our troops" i think that would get the message across ?

cheers

PV

I wasn't sure where to put "ex" or "former" in the profile. Perhaps a field designating this specifically that I missed?  That's why I left my rank blank.  I realize that normally one doesn't put (R) after an NCO rank but I just updated my profile to include "CPL (Retired)". 

I want to point something out with regards to my own past experiences as a "civie" wearing OD combats.  Being a "fan" of the military from an early age led me too become an Air Cadet.  As such I purchased OD combats which I often would wear the jacket or boots or pants to school but I never put the whole thing on and went to school( as I've seen guys walking around in full woodland tracksuits lately!)

I loved my combats.  Having them for me was like having a Blue Jays jersey!  When I turned 17 I immediately joined the reserves, in part because I was looking forward to being issued full combats.

Not long ago I considered re-enlisting in the reserves, probably in a comms squadron as I work in IT and play in Amateur Radio.  One of the things that interested me was to be issued CADPATS!  Other things have happened (life!) so I haven't re-enlisted but I will say again;

I believe strongly that there are many people who wear a combat jacket or pants in an effort to identify with a part of Canada that they are proud of and as such I do not think this is wrong. In fact, if someone is so inclined as to only want REAL CADPAT pants or a jacket, I find it highly unlikely that he or she would be a gang-banger. The gang-banger type isn't even going to comprehend the difference!

On another note, I was watching Regenisis and this character who was a street kid in New York was wearing a REAL CADPAT combat jacket over top of his grey hoodie sweater and ripped jeans.  I wasn't offended.

We can either alienate Canadian civies from the military or be thankful when they show a positive interest.

 

[Teddy Ruxpin]

I believe strongly that there are many people who wear a combat jacket or pants in an effort to identify with a part of Canada that they are proud of and as such I do not think this is wrong.

It says "walt/wannabe" to me - not supporter - and, has been pointed out - it's illegal.  Full stop.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

What do you think this is? Army.sympathy.ca?
Keep that up and I'll have one of the staff barbarians get medieval on your profile.

Oops, sorry I'm late Boss, ......did you call me?

 

[Steel Badger]

Point of Interest


I recently "discussed" the wearing of issue ( or "once-issue" ) CADPAT uniforms with a member of the Regimental Cadet Corps...

He purchased said jacket at a local surplus store.........no S/N or name in said jacket....of course
SB

 

[Redeye]

I wasn't sure where to put "ex" or "former" in the profile. Perhaps a field designating this specifically that I missed?  That's why I left my rank blank.  I realize that normally one doesn't put (R) after an NCO rank but I just updated my profile to include "CPL (Retired)". 

I want to point something out with regards to my own past experiences as a "civie" wearing OD combats.  Being a "fan" of the military from an early age led me too become an Air Cadet.  As such I purchased OD combats which I often would wear the jacket or boots or pants to school but I never put the whole thing on and went to school( as I've seen guys walking around in full woodland tracksuits lately!)

I loved my combats.  Having them for me was like having a Blue Jays jersey!  When I turned 17 I immediately joined the reserves, in part because I was looking forward to being issued full combats.

Not long ago I considered re-enlisting in the reserves, probably in a comms squadron as I work in IT and play in Amateur Radio.  One of the things that interested me was to be issued CADPATS!  Other things have happened (life!) so I haven't re-enlisted but I will say again;

I believe strongly that there are many people who wear a combat jacket or pants in an effort to identify with a part of Canada that they are proud of and as such I do not think this is wrong. In fact, if someone is so inclined as to only want REAL CADPAT pants or a jacket, I find it highly unlikely that he or she would be a gang-banger. The gang-banger type isn't even going to comprehend the difference!

On another note, I was watching Regenisis and this character who was a street kid in New York was wearing a REAL CADPAT combat jacket over top of his grey hoodie sweater and ripped jeans.  I wasn't offended.

We can either alienate Canadian civies from the military or be thankful when they show a positive interest.

First off, "Ex-Cpl" would be the proper means by which to identify yourself.

Secondly, it would seem, your feelings aside, that the vast majority of us find individuals wearing CADPAT kit when they are not CF members offensive, annoying, repugnant, etc.  Identifying with someone you're not in a arcane way is hardly a way to show support for the troops, it's just pathetic.  When I see someone in CADPAT clothing, I don't think "hey that guy supports us", I roll my eyes, often swear under my breath, and then have to carry on before losing my composure.  I can't stand it, that's the only way I can put it.  Clearly I'm not alone in that train of thought.

Thirdly, if your main reason for wanting to rejoin is CADPAT kit, I'm not put off by your having decided not to do so.  I'd want to see much better motivating factors rather than Shiny Kit being your reasoning!

Fourthly, military law aside, there is something in the Criminal Code (to which all in Canada are subject) about wearing of military and other uniforms to which one is not entitled.  Can't remember what exactly, and too busy to get references.

Saying "don't wear our stuff" isn't alienating, it's preserving our idendity.  It is about keeping a symbol of the sacrifices we've all made to various degrees (and admittedly in comparison to many mine are very trivial) to ourselves.  Ideally I think CADPAT should be only for those who's earned it.  Allowing it wide circulation just invites more posers/Walter Mittys.  Generally that sort of thing brings disgrace upon us

 

[mrcpu]

It says "walt/wannabe" to me - not supporter - and, has been pointed out - it's illegal.  Full stop.

a) everyone was a wannabe before they became

b) wearing a CF combat jacket with a pair of jeans...as has been pointed out... IS NOT illegal. Full stop.

 

[aesop081]

b) wearing a CF combat jacket with a pair of jeans...as has been pointed out... IS NOT illegal. Full stop.

That very well may be but it just screams "idot".  You want to show your support for the CF, print it on a t-shirt or get one of those ribbons.

also, IMHO, 5 years of pres does not make you "retired"....it makes you "i got out"

 

[Wookilar]

Going to jump in here and be the devil's advocate on this one:

Why do we sell it? (and it is legal to buy and sell, as long as it's from crown assets) Why did we sell the old combats? And boots? And every thing else we've ever been issued that can be bought, legally, at any surplus store.

Don't get me wrong, I agree with just about everything that Redeye is saying. However, despite what many of us here feel (and common sense nowadays would tell us) about selling issued kit to anybody that has not earned the privilege of wearing it, official policy seems to be for crown assets to make as much money...I mean recover some of the cost that was initially incured in purchasing said equipment.

It would seem that a major policy change is required and not just shredding the CADPAT uniforms that are disposed of.

Personally, the Airborne t-shirts that I see flat-faces wearing makes me more upset than anything else.

I especially like the "Walter Mitty" ref.  ;D

 

[Neill McKay]

also, IMHO, 5 years of pres does not make you "retired"....it makes you "i got out"

Ten years is retired.

 

[mrcpu]

First off, "Ex-Cpl" would be the proper means by which to identify yourself.

Hmmm. Good point.

Secondly, it would seem, your feelings aside, that the vast majority of us find individuals wearing CADPAT kit when they are not CF members offensive, annoying, repugnant, etc.  Identifying with someone you're not in a arcane way is hardly a way to show support for the troops, it's just pathetic.  When I see someone in CADPAT clothing, I don't think "hey that guy supports us", I roll my eyes, often swear under my breath, and then have to carry on before losing my composure.  I can't stand it, that's the only way I can put it.  Clearly I'm not alone in that train of thought.

One think that CF and retired CF members, regular and reserve probably all agree on is that we would fight and if need be die for the RIGHT to have ones opinion, even if we disagree!

Thirdly, if your main reason for wanting to rejoin is CADPAT kit, I'm not put off by your having decided not to do so.  I'd want to see much better motivating factors rather than Shiny Kit being your reasoning!

LOL! No!!! Shiny kit wasn't even close to being the main reason, it was an attractive part of the package!  One of my main reasons was the change in the international climate and the fact that I have 3 kids and want them to grow up in as safe a world as possible.

Fourthly, military law aside, there is something in the Criminal Code (to which all in Canada are subject) about wearing of military and other uniforms to which one is not entitled.  Can't remember what exactly, and too busy to get references.

Nothing in the CCC would apply to someone wearing a combat jacket or pair of combat pants, seperate from each other.  It is there to protect people from someone dressing up in a complete uniform and being mistaken for a member of the CF.  It always comes down to the "Reasonable Person" on the street.  Does the "Reasonable Person", when seeing someone walking around with a US BDU jacket or a CF combat jacket  with a pair of jeans and running shoes on, believe this person is an on-duty or active member of the military? No.. of course not!

My biggest beef after lurking around here for a while and reading is the way members of this board throw around their mis-interpretation of the law and try to say that wearing uniform parts is illegal, even trying to apply QR+Os against civilians!

 

[Trinity]

Why do we sell it? (and it is legal to buy and sell, as long as it's from crown assets) Why did we sell the old combats? And boots? And every thing else we've ever been issued that can be bought, legally, at any surplus store.

We don't

Cadpat is shredded after is use.

Its the aftermarket stuff, using cadpat in "non" CF designs you may be thinking of.

No CF issue cadpat item can be surplus...  although there was an incident of 2 tri walls being accidentally sold.

ArmyVern has posted somewhere on here in regards to that.


Edit : clarify one sentence

Irony - the Padre responding to someone playing devil's advocate... 


EDIT AGAIN at 1450..... 

Sorry.. though you were refering specifically to cadpat.  Thus, my response is off track.
Why, because it makes money and we're poor.  Doesn't mean we have to like it as
members of the CF.

 

[mrcpu]

That very well may be but it just screams "idot".  You want to show your support for the CF, print it on a t-shirt or get one of those ribbons.

also, IMHO, 5 years of pres does not make you "retired"....it makes you "i got out"

LOL! Actually it makes me "I quit"!

 

[mrcpu]

Going to jump in here and be the devil's advocate on this one:

Why do we sell it? (and it is legal to buy and sell, as long as it's from crown assets) Why did we sell the old combats? And boots? And every thing else we've ever been issued that can be bought, legally, at any surplus store.

That's probably a much better question!

 

[Wookilar]

Sorry, Padre, but I worked (part-time) for the store in question that received those triwalls "by accident." There were a lot more than 2 triwalls of it, all told. Scotty would have run out of it long before now if that's all there was. That wording is someone at 7 CFSD trying to cover their nether regions.

The contract for disposal was for all clothing out of Edmonton Garrison, it never defferentiated between uniforms (CF, work dress or combats). Whatever was disposed of was what we got. There are (or I should say, used to be, this was 2 years ago) seperate contracts on leather (i.e. boots) and canvas (tentage). The original wording in the contracts stipulated that the items must be issued to the reciever in the same condition it was received by the R&D cell. Now, all CADPAT is being shredded. I would hope that the contracts were changed in a proper manner. The contracts last for the fiscal year, and require (at the time) a $5000 performance bond by the winner of the contract.

Maybe I didn't make my point clear enough (need more practice at advocating, it seems). CADPAT may be shredded now, but we are still selling it. And webbing, and combat boots, and CF's, etc. Doesn't it seem that the time to change the applicable laws and regs (civy and mil) is now?

Oh, and it is still legal to sell/buy CADPAT (hence all the knock-offs/copycats). They tried to shut the store down over it, didn't work, still selling it. It's just become SOP to shred CADPAT. We need solid policy change, not knee-jerk reaction from somebody trying to cover their @ss. Anyone with two clues knows it's a bad idea to sell CADPAT uniforms on the open market.

 

[mrcpu]

LOL! Actually it makes me "I quit"!

How's this! I changed my rank to CPL (Q) for CPL Quit  ;D

( vs CPL (R) which IMHO really should only be used if one stayed in and got a pension! )

 

[Trinity]

Sorry, Padre, but I worked (part-time) for the store in question that received those triwalls "by accident." There were a lot more than 2 triwalls of it, all told. Scotty would have run out of it long before now if that's all there was. That wording is someone at 7 CFSD trying to cover their nether regions.

NO need to be sorry.  Glad to be corrected when I'm wrong  (I said WRONG PEOPLE.. not all the time!  )

I heard 2 tri walls.. not sure if it was here or another surplus store passed the info on to me.. probably here.

Wow, more than two eh?  Nice.. must have been pretty faded though since it was the earlier runs.

Thanks for the update.

Blessings

 

[Teddy Ruxpin]

wearing a CF combat jacket with a pair of jeans...as has been pointed out... IS NOT illegal. Full stop

Yes, it IS - and I'm not prepared to argue the point further - particularly against one who obviously didn't have the wherewithal to stick it out and now wants to parade around in a pseudo soldier suit...  Right "Cpl Quit"?

 

[PViddy]

My biggest beef after lurking around here for a while and reading is the way members of this board throw around their mis-interpretation of the law and try to say that wearing uniform parts is illegal, even trying to apply QR+Os against civilians!

Dude,

if you mean the QR & O reference from my previous post ? now that you have your profile sorted out,  can now dechipher that you are indeed a civi.  You don't get Psychic powers until you make Lt. 

cheers,

PV