The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)

[KevinB]

There's a difference between riding shotgun for your buddy and driving your own car.

We don’t think you have a license

 

[Kirkhill]

I suspect it’s more palatable as a bunch of small purchases. Doesn’t seem as newsworthy.

Buy them in 6 packs of <500 Million a piece and nobody will notice. Add in a new hangar from time to time. A new simulator. A batch of spares. A refit. An upgrade....

All penny ante stuff that happens every day without fanfare unless the PMO needs a press release.

 

[suffolkowner]

I suspect it’s more palatable as a bunch of small purchases. Doesn’t seem as newsworthy.

Buy them in 6 packs of <500 Million a piece and nobody will notice. Add in a new hangar from time to time. A new simulator. A batch of spares. A refit. An upgrade....

All penny ante stuff that happens every day without fanfare unless the PMO needs a press release.

So if you take at least some estimates of $19 Billion for the 88 fighters subtract the $7B for 16 and are left with $12B for 72. Seems more palatable. Just another case of our muddled procurement communication

 

[kev994]

So if you take at least some estimates of $19 Billion for the 88 fighters subtract the $7B for 16 and are left with $12B for 72. Seems more palatable. Just another case of our muddled procurement communication

But if I do this it’s contract splitting. . Maybe we only require 16, and maybe next year we have a different requirement for 16 more.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

If the CP-140 can do ISR stuff over land now, I'm assuming the P8 could also perform that role if required?

Yup. it can, understanding it isn’t specialized for it like the USN P-3 AIP or LSRS variants.

(RCAF types, how well is the 140 doing in that role so far?)

It can do it and did in Libya, Iraq and Syria but isn’t as capable as more modern(ized) crewed aircraft and RPAs (in some aspects for RPAs).

** just to clarify, the CP140 does limited (in comparison to specialized ELINT) ELINT and does not do SIGINT. The 140 does not do AW&C.

 

[Kirkhill]

We don’t think you have a license

Many a true word spoke in joke....

 

[MilEME09]

But if I do this it’s contract splitting. . Maybe we only require 16, and maybe next year we have a different requirement for 16 more.

Apparently we needed to place this order to stay on schedule? Maybe with all these other nations cutting orders we had an opportunity to cut the line? And get jets sooner?

 

[Quirky]

Getting them sooner doesn’t work when all the hangars aren’t built yet, never mind training pilots and maintainers that we don’t have. If we are going to model our support around the USAF, we will need hundreds of new people. I don’t think the RCAF is ready for this.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

…unless you’re keeping them at your father-in-laws place and putting people there…

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Yup. it can, understanding it isn’t specialized for it like the USN P-3 AIP or LSRS variants.



It can do it and did in Libya, Iraq and Syria but isn’t as capable as more modern(ized) crewed aircraft and RPAs (in some aspects for RPAs).

** just to clarify, the CP140 does limited (in comparison to specialized ELINT) ELINT and does not do SIGINT. The 140 does not do AW&C.

I meant to say does not do COMINT vice SIGINT.

 

[Spencer100]

Buy them in 6 packs of <500 Million a piece and nobody will notice. Add in a new hangar from time to time. A new simulator. A batch of spares. A refit. An upgrade....

All penny ante stuff that happens every day without fanfare unless the PMO needs a press release.

And the PMO doesn't want this press release. As stated above.

 

[Kirkhill]

…unless you’re keeping them at your father-in-laws place and putting people there…

I believe that most of the countries that bought F35s originally took delivery of their first aircraft in the US at a US training establishment. And have left them there while their people are trained on US soil. And the first UK F35B pilots flew off USMC and USN decks.

 

[MilEME09]

I believe that most of the countries that bought F35s originally took delivery of their first aircraft in the US at a US training establishment. And have left them there while their people are trained on US soil. And the first UK F35B pilots flew off USMC and USN decks.

So what your saying is the RCAF already has the 4 seasons somewhere in California booked

 

[Spencer100]

So what your saying is the RCAF already has the 4 seasons somewhere in California booked

That was the first line item.

But joking aside. I would think a large part of the future training will be moved down south.

 

[MilEME09]

That was the first line item.

But joking aside. I would think a large part of the future training will be moved down south.

Makes sense to me , a JSF air training plan to pool training resources would save cost

 

[SeaKingTacco]

So what your saying is the RCAF already has the 4 seasons somewhere in California booked

More like Arizona.

Luke AFB.

 

[CBH99]

Makes sense to me , a JSF air training plan to pool training resources would save cost

Agreed. Makes sense to me too.

A pool of well qualified instructors now, a pool of simulators, and soon (enough) will have enough seasoned instructors from partner nations that will have different lessons to share with the rest.

For example, lessons learned by Japanese pilots about their interactions with Chinese systems will potentially be different than lessons learned by British pilots interacting with Russian systems, etc - will make for a much richer training environment than we could ever offer if we trained our pilots up here on our own.

Same benefits will be found when it comes to systems security as well, with lots of crucial information to be shared & lessons to be learned.


People can rag on the US all they want, but they really are the leader that forces the western world to get its crap together

 

[childs56]

Apparently we needed to place this order to stay on schedule? Maybe with all these other nations cutting orders we had an opportunity to cut the line? And get jets sooner?

The manufacturer always stated they could and would ramp up production lines for us if made the order. The US was willing to modify their delivery schedule if required for us to get delivery faster. Makes one wonder if they want us to get some jets, kick the crap out of them, hour them out and use our lessons learned to make things better, similar to the Hornets.

 

[OldSolduer]

Getting them sooner doesn’t work when all the hangars aren’t built yet, never mind training pilots and maintainers that we don’t have. If we are going to model our support around the USAF, we will need hundreds of new people. I don’t think the RCAF is ready for this.

I said a good number of years ago to the leadership of every unit in 38 Bde that you can buy all the kit an army needs - but are no good if you have no troops to use them.
I should have said that to a few more people.

Anyways - shit or get off the pot. Your greatest resource is the people.

 

[Rifleman62]

I was living in the area close to Luke AFB during the Winters. Tons of community support for the F-35 training program. Every day 2, 3, 4 sometimes 6 aircraft flew over my house several times. Occasional sonic boom. Old article., 2019.

Here's why the skies around Luke Air Force Base are getting noisier

GLENDALE (Phoenix)

Here's why the skies around Luke Air Force Base are getting noisier​

The Republic | azcentral.com 5 Feb 2019

As skies around Luke Air Force Base get busier and noisier, the base wants West Valley residents who live nearby to know that this is the new norm. The base's F-35 program is growing, as planned. With more planes and more pilots to train, there's more training flights each day, and the time between flights — and noise from an overhead plane — is shrinking.

The base hit a milestone in January. For the first time, there were more than 1,000 F-35 flights from the base in one month, said Becky Heyse, a base spokeswoman. Also last month, the base saw a dramatic increase in noise complaints from those living around the base, Heyse said. She declined to provide the number of complaints in January. In all of 2018, there were about 80, according to numbers provided by Luke near the end of the year. The number of complaints coming in so far this month seem more normal, Heyse said.

But the number of flights, and the noise, will continue to grow as the program grows. Luke officials are asking residents for their continued support, Heyse said. "The program has been as successful as it has been because we have this community support," she said.

Five years into F-35 program

Luke is located north of Camelback Road and west of Litchfield Road in west Glendale. It was a mainstay for F-16s during that jet's heyday. The base is now phasing out its F-16 program as its F-35 program grows. In the last few months, it reached another milestone: The number of F-35s surpassed the number of F-16s on base. After receiving its first F-35 in 2014, the base is now up to 85 F-35s. The plan is to build out the inventory to a total of 144 F-35s. The base has 77 F-16s after dropping from a peak of more than 200.

Luke trains pilots from around the world, and, in total, trains 70 percent of the world's F-35 pilots. The pilots are trained on planes from all of the F-35 partner countries, which are the U.S., Australia, Norway, Italy, Turkey and the Netherlands. The base is also training pilots from the Republic of Korea. On Friday, it received its first Dutch F-35, Heyse said.

The base graduates about 105 F-35 pilots per year, and about 98 F-35 maintainers per year, according to November data provided by Luke. Luke, along with the rest of the U.S. Air Force, faces a shortage in pilots and pilot instructors.

Noise doesn't bother some

Surprise (Phoenix) Councilman Chris Judd, who has lived near the base for about 15 years, said he hasn't noticed an increase in flights lately. He said noise from the flights is "just part of living" in his district. F-35s are louder than the F-16s that long-time residents may have been used to. Luke officials aren't sure why complaints jumped last month, but they have their guesses, Heyse said.

It was colder, and planes sound louder when it's cold. The base shut down one of two runways for construction in January, which may have changed what certain residents heard. And there weren't as many flights taking place in December during the holidays, so in January residents may have been more inclined to notice when flights picked back up again. Judd said his neighbors don't complain to him about the noise. In fact, he said, complaining about it is "almost socially unacceptable."

It's common in the communities around Luke to refer to it as the sound of freedom.