Tacvest Mods

[RHFC_piper]

I asked the question about vests and options for TF03-07 during one of our OC's hours.. the answer was "not gonna happen".  Apparently they are going to crack down on this practice soon.  I hope he is misinformed as I am a smaller build person and would like to buy a nice combo that will fit me well.. yes the tacvest has adjustments, but not to my liking yet..

We were told the same, right up until Op Medusa...  Things change when the bullets start flying.

As far as I've been told (from the troops still there from my former platoon) they're still using the non-issued gear they brought into Panjwayi at the beginning of Op Medusa, and no one has argued it.  But that's operational.

I second guessed buying a lot of after market gear (ie. Denali Chest rig) and bringing it after our RSM threatened buring it if worn. But I'm glad I did. And even now, being back and not needing the gear anymore, I don't regret it at all.  

When you invest in Tactical gear (for deployment) weather a modification or complete rigs, you invest in your own ability to do your job and you invest in your life... Like all investments, you have to be wise about it or it will affect both your job and your life.  And when you think about it, can you put a price on your life, or your ability to do your job when your life relys on it?

BTW... these mods to the tac vest are great so far... good work.

 

[Bzzliteyr]

I have stated that to people that think trimming the Boonie hat should be a crime punishable by hanging!!  Does it really affect my soldiering skills if I have trimmed it so I can see more effectively with it on?? If I buy an Eagle CIRAS or any other plate carrier, does it really hurt anyone?  It makes me more able to do my job, right?

Anyhow, before this gets going in the wrong direction:  I understand mods have been made, but no one has discussed what trades have made those mods.  Are we to assume it's all infanteers?  If so, has anyone seen or heard of any "armour" mods?  I don't want to be out shopping for something I might not even need just cause I wanna be like Infidel-6!!

 

[PhilB]

I am infantry (the mods in this thread are mine) I know the moded mag pouches I mentioned earlier where done by infantry as well. As far as armour specific mods, I would think it would depend on what role you were filling. If you are operating out of G Wagons mods/purchases would basically be the same for everyone. If out of a Leo or coyote, well I have no idea never having operated out of one. Just think about what your job will be in theater, the requirements of that job, what you will have to face as a "worst case scenario" and then mod/purchase gear to fill those requirements.

 

[Synthos]

Hence partly why PALS webbing was adopted by the US, different set ups for different trades.

 

[Desert Fox]

For mags -- I prefer mine lower down and with a friction fit retention backed by a elastic loop for more agressive activities.
grenades and smoke I prefer with velcro and a button snap - its easy to pull the snap tongue

I run ESSTAC pouches affixed to the CIRAS and TT's on the ESSTAC's (they are different height -- and gives easier access to the mags)


People have to resist adding the kitchen sink to their vest -- since they still need to be able to Shoot - MOVE - and communicate in it.
  Keep in mind adopting fire postions, exiting vehicles and movement thru dwellings or other confined spaces.

Im not gonna ask any questions im just going to grin in envy  ;D


Cheers!

 

[KevinB]

One other point - which simply wont happend with the CF GenIV Armour Carrier is a releaseable system -- vehicles get hit/overturned etc and sometimes its nec to say fuck the kit I need to leave- your a lot more nimble in your combats/flightsuit than you are in 80lbs of gear.  If it comes down to me or my buddies getting cooked like a steak -- I'll go with I'll steal a car and kit after I get out of a burning vehicle.

 

[westie048]

There is a lot of good info here for what a guy can do with what we have been issued in order to make it better so that we can actually train the way we are going to fight. The sad fact is that we have to spend our own money to make something that was issued better.




:skull:

 

[Ham Sandwich]

I've pretty much given up on the issued TAC vest. While it's arm and leg above the old webbing, i can't get past the fact that mags are up high. But more importantly, it's not modular, and sorry, but a sect comd just doenst carry the same kit as say, a C6 gunner.

I'm really impressed by the intial poster's mods however. Well done. I haven't seen anyone successflly add anything more than the odd dump-bag or pistol holster.

But for me, as i said, it's the mag puches i have issues with. so i gave up on it and just constructed this.

I found the 4 mag pouches in a surplus store (i have no idea who makes them). They were orginally a double pouch drop-leg rig (there were two, i bought 'em both as soon as i saw them), so I connected them side by side using zap-straps, and i re-rigged the straps they came with so that they go over the shoulders, cross in the back, and come back to the the outer edges of the outer pouches, and used the remaining strapping and a fastex clip to make a quick release waist strap.

Now it's a shitty picture, i apologize but the mag pouches are really slick. They can fit either one, or two mags, have a tapered velcro cover which is easily tucked behind the mags (for quick access)  and if you look closely, there's an o.d. strap crossing the bottoms of the puches. That's an ajustable velcro cinch that can be tightened or loosened for friction retention, and can be adjusted to securely grip one mag, or two, even with the cover open.

So after rigging those up, i took the back wall of one of the large/long pouches that comes with the issued day pack (yes, i hacked up Her Majesty's kit), sewed some loops on it so it could be attached to the harness, and used it as a backing. If you've ever looked closely at that pouch, you'll know what i'm talking about. It has a velcro/button sleeve intened for stowing the strap that comes with the pouch - perfect map pouch for a chest rig. Then I just sewed a small strap across it in a molle-like fashion, attached a US compass/beacon pouch to it with zap-straps, and attached a small cadpat pouch above that (you cannot see this pouch too well, as it was open at the time of the pic -i'd been stowing the camera in there).

All i need now are some small cadpat kidney pouches to attach to it. I tried the issued tacvest c9 pouches, but they're a littel large.

 

[Ham Sandwich]

Phil is on the money about what gets in your rig.  Anything you pull out of a pouch on a tac vest or a chest rig MUST be for killing. No cam stick, foot powder, socks. Put all that crap in a small pack, including the rainjacket..  Don't put it in your pockets either, it will only chafe through your entire sweaty day.  You need a place specifically for  empty mags ie.  a dump pouch.  Never put an empty mag back in a mag pouch.  Doesn't matter how smart you are about your reloads.  If there is an empty in there, you will grab it in an emergency.  AMMO, frags, smoke, m203, water.  Strap an m72 to the side of the camelcack motherlode. Don't leave KAF without it. That's it.

I couldn't agree more. Space on the front and the sides of my body is strictly for items i either need quick access to under duress (ammo, grenades, bayonet, pyro, field dressings), or stuff i know i'll be making frequent access to (compass, GPS, light, knife). I decided that if it's not fighting gear, or something i pull out 100+ times a day, then it it wasn't getting a spot on my rig. It either goes in the camelbak, or the daypack (if i'm wearing it). You don't need quick access to gloves, hats, stealth-suits etc. Those things can go on you back. And once you've worn a rig that hasn't got massive pouches by your sides, you'll appreciate how comfortable it is to be able to allow your arms to actually hang naturally unobstrocted. It feels like you're not wearing any kit at all when you can do that

 

[Cote]

Ham,

That picture sucks with regards to highlighting the mods you made on your tac vest. But as a picture its awsome - you look hella grizzeld, I really like it.

Anyway on a different note I would keep survival items in your pockets or somewhere on your body. Lighter, survival kit, mulitool, knife ect...

 

[Ham Sandwich]

none of that stuff needs to be in your pocket when out on ops. It's perfectly fine on your back. How often do you really have to delve into your survival kit when on an attack? The lighter i'll keep in my pocket, but that's because i smoke. And my knife no longer goes in my pocket when on ops. I'm tired of having to buy a new knife after every ex.

 

[Desert Fox]

none of that stuff needs to be in your pocket when out on ops. It's perfectly fine on your back. How often do you really have to delve into your survival kit when on an attack? The lighter i'll keep in my pocket, but that's because i smoke. And my knife no longer goes in my pocket when on ops. I'm tired of having to buy a new knife after every ex.

The point he is making in reference to putting the surivival kit on your pers is that you might need to ditch your kit.... espeically your small pack which carries non vital kit as it is, of course with the exception the survial kit you put in there.....

Can't really ditch the pointless small pack if it has you vitals in it can you?

Doing the "mogodishu mile" with a small pack sounds like a crappy way to start an afternoon....


[edited for spelling, at least the very obvious ones]

 

[DELTADOG13]

With regards to your TacVest pouchs being to high on your chest that you can't get to them. This is what I did to lower them. Many others have done this for many reasons with good reviews.
Try undoing the velcro at the shouders and lower out most of the webbing so that it hangs lower. Try and see if that will help. It has helped for me especially for economy of motion and Tac reloads.

Cheers DD13

 

[George Wallace]

:rofl:

 

[NL_engineer]

Doing the "mogodishu mile" with a small pack sounds like a crappy way to start an afternoon....

Still, I would rother not run it at all  ;D

WRT survival kits, you have most of the stuff with you anyway (knife, lighter(for threads/smokes), etc)

 

[Ham Sandwich]

Re: ditching the small pack

It's not a ruck. I don't generally carry so much in there that it would be nevessary to ditch. And I ususally just have a camelbak on anyway. That i KNOW i won't be ditching, so there's no problem with stowiung smaller items in there rather than  on my body.

Re: loosening the vest's shoulder straps - I think you've missed the point of the tacvest. It's not going to work very well if it's not snug. It isnt supposed to be bouncing around on your body.

 

[Ham Sandwich]

.....then again, i guess i can't criticize it as i haven't seen it done. Just seems a little uncomfortable the way i'm picturing it in my head.

 

[GO!!!]

All of the doomsayers preaching about the evils of non-issue kit have been told to STFU once the bullets start flying in theatre. Fighting tours and parade squares are totally different places, and I believe we have it right when it comes to the de facto policy of wearing the TV for domestic soldiering, and something that works when actually doing our jobs abroad.

I am a big proponent of buying a good, solid pair of boots, backpack and some sort of load bearing equipment to do your job. Don't try to jury rig all of your stuff with zap straps, make expensive mods to your issue stuff or "let it all hang off you" so you can access it better. This stuff will never measure up to the manufactured stuff from a reputable company.

Go out and BUY something that works. Get it in OD or Cadpat, you can bowflage (paint) it in theatre, or just throw a little dirt on it. Best cam going, period. There are a dozen solid companies that sell excellent stuff in Canada and the US, tailor made for our jobs. Go forth and purchase!

While I nearly choked with rage when I bought an Arktis vest and Tac Tailor MAV, Blackhawk backpack and swiss mountain boots - they are what you need. I am fortunate to be in a Unit that quickly realised the deficiencies of the issued kit, and authorised the use of the necessary items - no reimbursement - you want it, you buy it, make sure it works and you must look Canadian - no flecktarn, multicam or DPM.

Other posters have stated it best "what's your life worth?" Think about it. I'll make an extra 13 grand or so when I deploy in feb, not including the tax relief. I can afford to put less than 10% of that into kit necessary to do my job. When I come back, I'll sell it on ebay, or just save it for the next time. If it gets burned, shot up or otherwise wrecked, the TV can be a backup until you get another brought back by someone on HLTA or mailed in. Resup is never impossible, while saying "no" always is.

Long term, speak up when someone asks. When the CLS comes to talk to you - tell him about your leaky raincoat, your crappy TV, and your useless boots. Nothing will get fixed if nobody complains. Also, make sure your units are putting in Kit deficiency reports (the real name of them escapes me right now) so that we can get better kit the next time.

Until then, it's always easier to ask for forgiveness than permission, and officers and SNCOs are almost always reasonable when you approach them with a well thought out solution to a problem instead of a whiny complaint. The old "issued kit only" dogma is quickly being replaced in units I know of being deployed.

 

[aesop081]

Also, make sure your units are putting in Kit deficiency reports (the real name of them escapes me right now) so that we can get better kit the next time.

UCR = Unsatisfactory Condition Report

 

[GregC]

All of the doomsayers preaching about the evils of non-issue kit have been told to STFU once the bullets start flying in theatre. Fighting tours and parade squares are totally different places, and I believe we have it right when it comes to the de facto policy of wearing the TV for domestic soldiering, and something that works when actually doing our jobs abroad.

I am a big proponent of buying a good, solid pair of boots, backpack and some sort of load bearing equipment to do your job. Don't try to jury rig all of your stuff with zap straps, make expensive mods to your issue stuff or "let it all hang off you" so you can access it better. This stuff will never measure up to the manufactured stuff from a reputable company.

While I nearly choked with rage when I bought an Arktis vest and Tac Tailor MAV, Blackhawk backpack and swiss mountain boots - they are what you need. I am fortunate to be in a Unit that quickly realised the deficiencies of the issued kit, and authorised the use of the necessary items - no reimbursement - you want it, you buy it, make sure it works and you must look Canadian - no flecktarn, multicam or DPM.

Other posters have stated it best "what's your life worth?" Think about it. I'll make an extra 13 grand or so when I deploy in feb, not including the tax relief. I can afford to put less than 10% of that into kit necessary to do my job. When I come back, I'll sell it on ebay, or just save it for the next time. If it gets burned, shot up or otherwise wrecked, the TV can be a backup until you get another brought back by someone on HLTA or mailed in. Resup is never impossible, while saying "no" always is.

Couldn't agree more with the above statements, and it's definately what seems to be the prevailing mentality in the Company. After coming back from leave, the kit "show and tell" was quite interesting upstairs. Amazing as it seems, personnel now have rigs that work for them and their role in the section/platoon, it's unfortunate that we had to pay for it ourselves. But as I always say "it's just money", and I tend to think I'm worth it, though not everyone agrees. It even seems many will be going with the old webbing over the tac-vest!

You could tell the highers were heading in the right direction with the SWAT boots and Arktis rig, it's unfortunate it didn't work out in the end. Until we come up with a better system, I'm more than happy to pay for my own gear for deployment, but then again, I'm a kit slut......... slightly ironic that those that called me that are now asking me for advice on setting up a rig  8)