"So You Want To Be A Pilot" Merged Thread 2002 - 2018

[jrm]

I am considering applying for pilot under ROTP. I am currently a Univeristy student. I have a few questions about the application and training as well as what life is like for a CF pilot:

I am a little concerned about my eyesight (which is currently better than 20/20 in both eyes) may degrade in the next three years when I will be done my degree. If I go to the aircrew selection centre this summer and complete the medicals with my currently acceptable eyesight, how long will I be able to use this record for application as a pilot? If I am offered pilot, how long do I have to accept the offer (when does the offer expire)?

I would only be interested in the pilot position and I do not wish to be stuck with a mandatory service requirement after I am done my degree in the case that I am not accepted as pilot because my eyesight has changed since I went to the ASC, or for some other reasion. If I have completed a portion of my degree and been subsidized for it, but I am not accepted for pilot in the end, will I be able to get out of the CF through any means such that I wouldn't have to serve a mandatory service at that time?

How does the application and subsquent offer of a training position work if I apply under ROTP and continue at my current civilian university? Will I train in the summer? If so, what training will be done in the summer? Will the CF be able to deny me a pilot position after I am done my degree for some reason such that I will be stuck with a mandatory service requirement?

In the event that I do not make the next step in the flight training process, what are my options then? I suppose I am really interested in the details of mandatory service, ie when are the cutoffs such that I have to serve in some job, when can I get out, etc.

And finally... What are the working conditions for a CF pilot? I am married and I will be having kids in a couple of years and it would be preferable to not be constantly away from them. How long would I have to be away from my family on a regular basis, barring obvious deployments? How long would I be deployed if I was?

Thanks for your replies!

 

[SupersonicMax]

If you don't want to be away, don't be a pilot period.  Nevermind a CF pilot. 

If you are not ready to do something else if you're not pilot (ie: you fail Flight Training or your health goes bad) then don't join the CF.. There is no guarantee and you WILL have to honour your contract (2 months of work for the CF every month of subsidized education)

Max

 

[armyvern]

Hmm,

Interesting. I might add that even if you are accepted as a pilot...you may go on to fail the training!! And you'll still be obligated service. What would you do if faced with that?? There are no guarantees that you'll pass, eyesight aside.

For some weird reason, I'm getting the idea that perhaps the CF will not be to your liking at all.

 

[Strike]

So many questions, so little time.

I am a little concerned about my eyesight (which is currently better than 20/20 in both eyes) may degrade in the next three years when I will be done my degree. If I go to the aircrew selection centre this summer and complete the medicals with my currently acceptable eyesight, how long will I be able to use this record for application as a pilot?

You have a medical every year once in the military and your eyesight will be tested then as well.  Cyclo exams (those wonderful drops that make you look like you've been licking a poisonous toad) are done every 3 years.  I think it used to be 5, but I had to get one done myself this year and was told it's every 3.  With summer training and barring any training delays, you would most likely finish your training about 2-3 years after you graduate from university.  So, unless you have some type of degenerative disease, I don't think you have to worry about your eyesight deteriorating to below standard prior to getting your wings.

If I have completed a portion of my degree and been subsidized for it, but I am not accepted for pilot in the end, will I be able to get out of the CF through any means such that I wouldn't have to serve a mandatory service at that time?

Unless they have changed how things are done lately, when you sign on that dotted line you already know what trade you will be going into.  Should something unforseen happen, like a medical situation or, God forbid, a course failure, there are a few scenarios that you might see.  You might be offered another trade, you might have to work out the rest of your time in odd jobs (4 years subsidized university = 5 years service, including the training time), you might get punted out.  You might also decide to leave in which case you would have to pay back a sum to make up for being subsidized through school.

How does the application and subsquent offer of a training position work if I apply under ROTP and continue at my current civilian university? Will I train in the summer? If so, what training will be done in the summer? Will the CF be able to deny me a pilot position after I am done my degree for some reason such that I will be stuck with a mandatory service requirement?

Generally, an ROTP application is made prior to accepting a position at a university so, for someone who is already going to school, I'm not sure what plan this would fall under.

Training for Basic, Second Language, and Primary flight training are done in the summer (usually) for those attending university.  The other courses in Moose Jaw, Portage, and Cold Lake are carried out after school is complete.

Once again, don't beleive there have been any changes but, unless there are extenuating circumstance like medical or course failures, what you signed in for is what you train for.

In the event that I do not make the next step in the flight training process, what are my options then? I suppose I am really interested in the details of mandatory service, ie when are the cutoffs such that I have to serve in some job, when can I get out, etc.

See above.

And finally... What are the working conditions for a CF pilot? I am married and I will be having kids in a couple of years and it would be preferable to not be constantly away from them. How long would I have to be away from my family on a regular basis, barring obvious deployments? How long would I be deployed if I was?

For that one, I suggest that you hit the search function and browse.  I'm sure there's a thread or two comparing how each flying community lives and which is better for the single folk and the family types.  It all depends on what type of aircraft you are interested in.  Not only that, but how the members of a unit are living now might change based on operational tempo, deployments, who's working there, any number of things.

As for the other comments posted here, they are right (although Max needs to lighten up a bit).  Being a pilot in the CF is not a free ticket into Big Red and it's certainly not all about the flying.  Our hours are remarkably lower than guys on civvie street per annum, because we still have to do all that military stuff.  I suggest you research the dirt about the job a little more prior to making a decision.

 

[jrm]

Yeesh, good way to encourage applications. Never said that my problem was being naive. Just wondering about the regulations and how family life can vary for a pilot in the CF.

It sounds like the best choice for someone interested in only pilot would be to finish their degree and apply DEO, so as to monitor eyesight and health, etc, closer to the date of application and commencement of training. I suppose I'm mostly nervous about potential health issues somehow sneaking up on me, though it's probably just paranoia.

I searched the forum but I couldn't find a good posting about how family life can vary for pilots in the CF. What occupations tend to be deployed or away from home more often? How long do regular deployments in the feild last? Is it possible, say, to instruct on a regular basis?

Thanks for the info

 

[Inch]

Here's the crazy thing about health, you could have a heart murmur and not even know about it until you go to Toronto and get an ultra sound done. Heart murmur = rejected for pilot.

All pilots are deployable. SAR pilots don't tend to deploy outside the country but you'll live your live carrying around a beeper and no matter what you've got on the go, if that beeper goes off, you're going to work. Maritime Helo pilots will spend around 6 months a year at sea. Tactical helo pilots, well, I'll let Strike fill you in there, but expect to be on exercise or course for around 4-6 months a year there too provided you don't get deployed somewhere. Transport guys will be gone for days at a time, home for a bit then gone again. One of the disadvantages to flying a long range aircraft is you have to fly half way around the world. Maritime Patrol, I don't know a lot about these guys WRT deploying but expect exercises and whatnot down in the US for up to 2-3 months straight sometimes. Fighters, again, exercises for a few months here and there but typically very long days while home.

It is possible to instruct, however those postings don't tend to be more than 4 or so years, unless your name is "Duke" and you instruct on Jet Rangers.

In all cases, as a pilot, expect strange working hours, sometimes you're in at 0800, sometime you don't even start until after supper and you're at work all night. Expect courses every few months from 2-4 weeks that will take you to exotic places like Winnipeg. Expect short notice deployments in the event the world goes to hell, like it did when TacHel went to Haiti, twice.

Being a CF pilot is a lifestyle more than a cool job with a good paycheck. I have been flying Sea Kings for 2.5 years and I've been at sea for both of my birthdays during that time. Expect to miss your kid's birthdays, wife's birthday, anniversary, kid's first day at school etc. When you're needed, you go. If your marriage is not up to the task, you'll be divorced before long. When my boss deployed to the Adriatic in the mid 90's, he went for 7 months, back for 6 and went again for 6 more months. Of the 6 Officers on his detachment, only 1 is still married to the same person, the other 5 including him got divorced.

Air Force, there's no life like it!  ;D

 

[jstearns]

I have done a search on this but I am unable to find anything that answers my question in full.  I have read that NCOs are able to switch trades if a job is open and they are not needed in their job, but I am not sure about officers.  I received a late offer for air nav (my second choice), however I had my heart set on pilot.  This is under the ROTP and I would be going to a civilian university (I already have one year complete).  I am tempted to accept the offer for air nav and I am wondering if I do am I able to become a pilot later on?  I understand that the training is different, but for the first bit it is the same, such as bmq, language training etc.  Is this correct?

So basically can I switch later, or if I am set on pilot should I reject the offer and try again, or try under a different entrance program?  I was thinking of doing the CEOTP, but it sounds like from what I have heard on here that I would be waiting a long long time to get through that way.  I am unsure how quick going through DEO would be if I got my degree on my own.

Lastly, I heard that air navs are adventally going to be phased out because any new aircraft will not require them.  I was wondering if anyone knows how true this is and if it is what will happen to the obsolete air navs?

Thanks

 

[Rowshambow]

Air nav do the same ASC (aircrew selection) as pilots. I am currently working with a fellow Ocdt that is air nav and he said all the Airnav guys on his serial failed the pilot portion. So have you already done the ASC and if so did you pass the sim part? I think you can do a transfer, but I am not sure in what capacity.

 

[dimsum]

There are few people in the forums who have tons of time in as Navs, but here are my $0.02 worth as a new Nav.

1.  It's possible to switch from Nav to Pilot despite the difference in vision requirements and what not...the thing is that you have 4 years after getting your Nav wings that you can't switch trades.  After that, though, it's open season.  When I was asking these questions, Crazyleggs helped me out a ton; he's really good for answering questions so PM him for details on how to go about doing it.

2.  Maritime Helos need Navs and as far as I know Cyclones will definitely have one (maybe even 2?  Anyone care to answer?)  From my research and working at a sqn for a bit, "Air Nav" is kind of a misnomer, since most of their job (esp Maritime Helo) isn't navigating at all. 

3.  Training (IAP, BOTP, 2nd Language) is exactly the same for both trades. 

4.  ROTP Civ U, in my opinion, is prob the best way to go about getting in.  They pay your tuition, and with the delays in training (Nav or Pilot) you'll be done your required years once you get your wings or shortly thereafter.  The training delays for Pilot are in the matter of years, while for Navs it's slightly shorter (but dont' expect back to back courses.)  So, even if you do go DEO, you'll be waiting a while anyway...might as well get Joe Canadian to pay for your degree! 

Again, just my $0.02

Dimsum

 

[aesop081]

2.  Maritime Helos need Navs and as far as I know Cyclones will definitely have one (maybe even 2?  Anyone care to answer?) 

2 pilots, 1 Nav and 1 AES Op will be the crew composition of the CH-148 Cyclone

 

[SupersonicMax]

They pay your tuition, and with the delays in training (Nav or Pilot) you'll be done your required years once you get your wings or shortly thereafter.  The training delays for Pilot are in the matter of years, while for Navs it's slightly shorter (but dont' expect back to back courses.)  So, even if you do go DEO, you'll be waiting a while anyway...might as well get Joe Canadian to pay for your degree! 

Obligatory Service for Plt and ANav is counted from wing grad (7 for pilots, 5 for navs).  Pilot training is getting there.  I waited 10 months for BFT (which is the norm now I guess).  

Max

 

[I_am_John_Galt]

There's at least one (fully trained with several years in) Nav in Pilot training right now ... I've been told that the new Hercs won't have a Nav seat (maybe someone else can confirm or refute this?).

 

[Zoomie]

I've been told that the new Hercs won't have a Nav seat (maybe someone else can confirm or refute this?).

There are no positions for Navigators on the J Model Hercules, CC-177 Globemaster III and the new FWSAR aircraft.

 

[SupersonicMax]

There are no positions for Navigators on the J Model Hercules, CC-177 Globemaster III and the new FWSAR aircraft.

Is it a sign of the Nav trade phasing out?

Max

 

[Buddha66]

I understand that the Nav will still be part of the crew on the Cyclone even when it is in the log / troop carrier config.  So theoretically, the sqn CO (LCol) can be on board a Cyclone manning a door gun with 20 odd troopies along for the ride.  All other flying forces (AF, Army and Navy) the door gunner is a MCpl - Sgt.  The Nav Mafia is hanging on to this one tightly.

 

[aesop081]

The Nav Mafia is hanging on to this one tightly.

The navs are not the only ones ,manning the C-6 in the MH world...they do have to share duties with their AES Op

 

[Buddha66]

Understood...but is it the job of a Nav LCol?  methinks not :

 

[aesop081]

Understood...but is it the job of a Nav LCol?  methinks not :

If the LCol is the nav on the crew....why not ? Rank on board the aircraft doesnt excuse anyone from performing the duties required by their trade or from the need to maintain individual currencies.

 

[jstearns]

Hey guys,

Thanks for your feedback, sorry I did not reply earlier (have been working and wihtout internet for a few days).

You all have answered my questions quite well, and have made me feel much better about my decision.  I had to give them an answer before I got a chance to look at this forum again.  I did accept, but I have not gone to ACS and will not be going.  I guess I am supposed to be going to Kelowna, BC to take the air nav test, if I pass that I  go sign the papers about 2 weeks later.

Once again thank you all for your input, it is appreciated.

 

[recce4life]

I have heard many different ways about becoming a pilot in the CF.  One person says I need a university degree another says I don't as long as I get some sort of degree within 10 yrs of becoming an officer.  I have been in the CF for 6yrs so I guess I would be applying as CEOTP?  Can anyone tell me how it really works to become a pilot?  I know its tough to become a CF-18 pilot and you have to be the best of the best to fly those flying erections.