ROTP as a 2lt?

[421_434_226]

Just as a small note do not trust the forces.ca, browse jobs website with regards to occupations available unfortunately it is quite often out of date. Your best bet is to call a recruiter as the numbers change much faster than the website.

 

[vonGarvin]

Is there anything I can do  to start ROTP at RMC as a 2LT?

No there isn't.

If you want more money right now, go work somewhere else.

 

[PuckChaser]

PM sent

You know, posting those allowances here might help others in your situation. They're all publicly available but hiding them away in a PM is just going to make someone 6 months from now ask the same question.

 

[Hodr]

You know, posting those allowances here might help others in your situation. They're all publicly available but hiding them away in a PM is just going to make someone 6 months from now ask the same question.

Point taken, I have heard from 8 people (recruiters and people currently attending RMC) now that Privates in the reserves
are being allowed to keep there Pte pay of 32k then 39k after the first year.

If for some reason that falls through, all of the standard incentives and grants through the Federal and provincial
governments for re-training still apply to people making use of ROTP.

There are a lot of grants and incentives for "returning students" with dependants.

 

[AERO2012]

You know, posting those allowances here might help others in your situation. They're all publicly available but hiding them away in a PM is just going to make someone 6 months from now ask the same question.

...In addition, sharing information is an essential leadership quality of an Officer Cadet.

 

[ballz]

Point taken, I have heard from 8 people (recruiters and people currently attending RMC) now that Privates in the reserves
are being allowed to keep there Pte pay of 32k then 39k after the first year.

If for some reason that falls through, all of the standard incentives and grants through the Federal and provincial
governments for re-training still apply to people making use of ROTP.

There are a lot of grants and incentives for "returning students" with dependants.

Careful about that one. Recruiters are not SMEs (subject matter experts) on all the nitty gritty details of every entry plan (even if they are supposed to be). When it comes to subsidized education, the SEMs in Bordon are. I suggest you start taking a look at which grants / scholarships / etc you are talking about, and see how they are administered.

From the 2011/2012 SEM Student Guide:

3.06  Academic Awards – Scholarships/Bursaries (CFAO 9-12).


11. Members cannot receive scholarships, bursaries or financial assistance where, by the terms of the prize, the money is to be used for any payment that normally is paid or reimbursed by the CF, unless the award is applied directly against those costs and the member does not claim reimbursement.


12. Prior to accepting any prize contact the SEM for a ruling. Students may be eligible to receive academic awards not related to tuition, textbooks and mandatory equipment.

In other words, if you get a grant for $X for tuition, it's no good to you. If your grant for $X is for something other than tuition and books, then you should be able to make use of it.

For example, I know there was somebody on this board from Ontario asking if her son could use the "Textbook & Technology Grant" offered in Ontario. The CF doesn't pay for your computer/laptop (well, actually the do pay for part of it if the university says its mandatory), so she was able to use the grant because the terms of the grant specified it could be used for laptops/computers/software etc.

If you do accept a grant for tuition, but you let the CF reimburse you for tuition as well, it's called fraud.

 

[Hodr]

Ballz, you are completely right.

But programs I'm referring to are for living expenses, which would
assist me in expenses for my Off campus home.

As far as as I can tell that would not conflict with ROTP.

If there is a fault in that plan, I would like to know, I'm
far from finished this research.

also, I will get a hold of the SEM's at borden like you recommend

 

[ballz]

If they are for living/various expenses then you should be fine, as the CF does not directly subsidize your living expenses.

If you want to speak to an SEM you'll have to ask a recruiter about it, I'm not sure what the policy is. I know I'm not going to give out my SEM's contact information as I'm not sure he'd appreciate it.

 

[Pusser]

If they are for living/various expenses then you should be fine, as the CF does not directly subsidize your living expenses.

That's not strictly true.  If you live in single quarters (as most do when attending RMC), then your living expenses are subsidized by the CF (that's the reason members in SQ are not entitled to PLD).  So, in order for the above to be true, the ROTP candidate would have to not be living in single quarters (i.e. attending a civilian institution or granted permission to live off campus at RMC).

 

[ballz]

That's not strictly true.  If you live in single quarters (as most do when attending RMC), then your living expenses are subsidized by the CF (that's the reason members in SQ are not entitled to PLD).  So, in order for the above to be true, the ROTP candidate would have to not be living in single quarters (i.e. attending a civilian institution or granted permission to live off campus at RMC).

Yes, I guess there are always exceptions, but please clear a few things up for me as I attend Civie U and I know you attended RMC, so:

1. I thought everyone at RMC pays for R&Q? Or are they just paying for rations and not quarters?
2. As a married member with dependants, wouldn't he be elligible to live off-campus?

3. I'm not sure that's "the reason" people are RMC don't get PLD. I thought whether you are paying for quarters or not, if you're living in CF accomodations, you don't get PLD. For example, someone living (and paying rent for) a PMQ at CFB Edmonton would not get the PLD for Edmonton, only those living out on the economy would.

Also, when it comes to "living expenses" I would make the argument that they are not subsidized. Your rent (quarters) may be paid for, but that's only a part of your living expenses. Rations being as expensive as they are, plus the other things that the CF doesn't pay for, it would be easy enough to make that arguement. Thoughts?

 

[Hodr]

I will be purchasing a house nearby with a small mortgage, so I wont be getting any help From CF for my living expenses, so
I can legally accept the government payments.

I was told I am allowed the assistance even if I'm not granted permission to live off of campus.

 

[Pusser]

Yes, I guess there are always exceptions, but please clear a few things up for me as I attend Civie U and I know you attended RMC, so:

1. I thought everyone at RMC pays for R&Q? Or are they just paying for rations and not quarters?
2. As a married member with dependants, wouldn't he be elligible to live off-campus?

3. I'm not sure that's "the reason" people are RMC don't get PLD. I thought whether you are paying for quarters or not, if you're living in CF accomodations, you don't get PLD. For example, someone living (and paying rent for) a PMQ at CFB Edmonton would not get the PLD for Edmonton, only those living out on the economy would.

Also, when it comes to "living expenses" I would make the argument that they are not subsidized. Your rent (quarters) may be paid for, but that's only a part of your living expenses. Rations being as expensive as they are, plus the other things that the CF doesn't pay for, it would be easy enough to make that arguement. Thoughts?

Actually, I attended Civvi U as well.

1)  I can't say for sure what specifically happens at RMC, but IAW CF regulations, if you are living in SQ, you generally pay R&Q, unless:

    a)  you are maintaining a residence elsewhere ( you don't have to pay for Quarters, but you still have to pay for rations);
    b)  you are on IR; or
    b)  you are on TD (R&Q are both provided then).

2)  As a married member, he may be permitted to live off campus, but he will have to ask permission.

3)  You misunderstand PLD.  The published explanations of PLD specifically state that PLD is not payable to members living in SQ precisely because those quarters are subsidized.  Furthermore, ration rates are the same across the country, so there is no differential from one base to another, thus no PLD.  An apparent exception to this would be a member on IR, who receives free R&Q where he/she is posted and PLD (if applicable) at the rate for where his/her dependants reside.  Members living in Married Quarters (which are not subsidized) can and do receive PLD.

 

[ballz]

1. I am 99% certain RMC students pay for both R&Q, so their living expenses are not fully subsidized, so he would be able to use any grants (which are not specific for tuition/books) to pay for the part that's not subsidized. The part that is not subsidized is a pretty hefty sum of money from what my RMC peers tell me, so unless his total grant money starts exceeding $4500 or more, he'd be in the clear.

2. Yes, of course he'd have to "ask for permission," but AFAIK "married with dependants" is as much of an ace-in-the-hole as you can get at RMC.

3. Understood.

 

[PuckChaser]

3. I'm not sure that's "the reason" people are RMC don't get PLD. I thought whether you are paying for quarters or not, if you're living in CF accomodations, you don't get PLD. For example, someone living (and paying rent for) a PMQ at CFB Edmonton would not get the PLD for Edmonton, only those living out on the economy would.

I can get PLD and I live in the Qs in Kingston. Its only $80 a month here, so its not really going to help him out much.

Hodr, I wouldn't count on a small mortgage in Kingston and living anywhere close to RMC. You'll be putting out more in gas to get to school and the frustration of a half hour commute than you'll be saving by just getting a 2 bdrm apartment downtown to rent (or getting a PMQ).

 

[clarkyo]

I am not too familiar with the ROTP entry plan but would he be allowed to find a part time job while he is in school to supplement his cadet salary?  Just a few hours of work per work could go a long way when it comes to bills and food.  If I were the poster though, I would look into a tech trade that I'm already qualified in.  Four years is a long time when you already have a family.

 

[dapaterson]

I am not too familiar with the ROTP entry plan but would he be allowed to find a part time job while he is in school to supplement his cadet salary?  Just a few hours of work per work could go a long way when it comes to bills and food.  If I were the poster though, I would look into a tech trade that I'm already qualified in.  Four years is a long time when you already have a family.

There is no time at ROTP (RMC) to hold down a part-time job.

 

[Redeye]

Point taken, I have heard from 8 people (recruiters and people currently attending RMC) now that Privates in the reserves
are being allowed to keep there Pte pay of 32k then 39k after the first year.

This might be possible - I know someone who's jsut starting at RMC and was a Cpl IPC 4 in the PRes - apparently he's keeping his pay. I thought that was rescinded but apparently that was what his offer said.

 

[Pusser]

I am not too familiar with the ROTP entry plan but would he be allowed to find a part time job while he is in school to supplement his cadet salary?  Just a few hours of work per work could go a long way when it comes to bills and food.  If I were the poster though, I would look into a tech trade that I'm already qualified in.  Four years is a long time when you already have a family.

If he's going to a civvie U, then yes as long as it does not interfere with his primary duty (i.e. going to school and passing).  Don't be cutting class to go to work as technically that would be absenting oneself without authority.  Don't fail because you haven't got time to do your assignments or study either.

RMC students don't generally have the opportunity to get part-time jobs.

 

[yoman]

1. I am 99% certain RMC students pay for both R&Q, so their living expenses are not fully subsidized, so he would be able to use any grants (which are not specific for tuition/books) to pay for the part that's not subsidized. The part that is not subsidized is a pretty hefty sum of money from what my RMC peers tell me, so unless his total grant money starts exceeding $4500 or more, he'd be in the clear.

2. Yes, of course he'd have to "ask for permission," but AFAIK "married with dependants" is as much of an ace-in-the-hole as you can get at RMC.

RMC students do pay for both rations and quarters.

I've never heard of someone at RMC and having dependents not being allowed to live off.

 

[Hodr]

I can get PLD and I live in the Qs in Kingston. Its only $80 a month here, so its not really going to help him out much.

Hodr, I wouldn't count on a small mortgage in Kingston and living anywhere close to RMC. You'll be putting out more in gas to get to school and the frustration of a half hour commute than you'll be saving by just getting a 2 bdrm apartment downtown to rent (or getting a PMQ).

From what I've seen, I can get a liveable 3 bedroom within 3km for $150k (info from mls Canada website), I can put about 100k into from the sale of my current house
(Mostly my dad's equity so I can't use it to live off since I know some people will ask) that leaves me with 50k in a mortgage.

I should be able with the government assistance program (I found one that I will be able to pay back after graduating) afford that and family expenses.