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New Parliament, New Leaders?

This blogger makes a good point; if Mr. Dion is to go, what about is palace guard? (of course the number of byelections soon after the general election would be soemwhat entertaining....)

http://russ-campbell.blogspot.com/2008/10/when-stphane-dion-goes-silently-into.html

When Stéphane Dion goes silently into the night, will he be alone?

When Stéphane Dion goes silently into the night, will he be alone? Or will those staunch defenders of his like Martha Hall Findlay follow him into political retirement?

Since Stéphane Dion is said to have lost the election for the Grits because of his lack of leadership skills and ineffective campaign platform, why should those who helped elect him and shape the platform not be forced to also fall on their swords?

Martha Hall Findlay became the first leadership candidate to throw her support behind Stéphane Dion. And later she became the Platform Outreach Chair for the Liberal Party and traveled across the country to gather ideas for the upcoming electoral platform. I have seen her praise Dion to the skies on several occasions on such TV programs as the Michael Coren Show on CTS.

Now that the leader and the platform that she helped design has flopped, should she receive a free pass?

And how about Bob Rae and Scott Brison, co-chairmen of the Liberals’ platform development committee?

Bison’s Liberal leadership platform emphasised both environmentalism and economic reform calling for a “green” platform that included personal and corporate tax cuts to prompt business growth and curb pollution. Sound familiar?

It just seems so unfair that Dion is forced out, yet those who put him there in the first place and those who helped build the campaign platform can carry on without apparent consequence.

 
Thucydides said:
This blogger makes a good point; if Mr. Dion is to go, what about is palace guard? (of course the number of byelections soon after the general election would be soemwhat entertaining....)

http://russ-campbell.blogspot.com/2008/10/when-stphane-dion-goes-silently-into.html


Actually, I think Russ Campbell has it just about 90% back-asswards. Brison, Hall Findlay and Rae all get brownie points for exerting themselves in a lost cause, for going the extra mile and so on.

Those who will suffer are Joe Volpe and Jim Karygiannis who have been too quick to demand Dion’s head on a platter.

Dion has to go, that's for sure,* but Liberals prize (and reward) loyalty. +1 (Party loyalty points) for Scott, Martha and Bob, -1 for Jim and Joe.


------------------
* But my true blue Tory heart hopes that it is a long, slow, divisive and expensive farewell - complete with knives protruding from many, many Liberal backs.  :D
 
and when all the dust and blood settles, we can hope for another pseudo Dion, Gerrad Kennedy perhaps? Someone the CPC can pigeonhole for the election in 30 months.....
 
Kennedy would be the worst possible choice for the Liberals. He is too far left, father left than Dion.

The only hope for the Liberals is to recapture the centre. For that they need Manley or McKenna, but I am confident than neither will be in the final four because the Liberal grass roots have moved left – leaving most Canadians (including the really smart Liberals) behind.

 
That is why I was suggesting Kennedy.  :)

Not likely though, the Liberal Party generally does not shoot itself in the foot twice in a row.....but there's hope  :)
 
Today there was rumblings that John McCallum will be the interim leader come Monday.  :blotto: He just might make Dion look like Patton! ;D
 
Here, reproduced under the Fair Dealing provisions (§29) of the Copyright Act from today’s Globe and Mail, is a column by Jeffrey Simpson that, I think neatly and fairly sums up the Liberals’ dilemmas:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20081017.wcosimp20/BNStory/specialComment/home
The Liberal Party needs more than a new leader

JEFFREY SIMPSON

From Monday's Globe and Mail
October 20, 2008 at 6:00 AM EDT

Beaten, broke, divided and diminished. That's the Liberal Party, post-election. Someone must eventually lead it. Just who will consume Liberals (again) for months.

Whoever leads better face reality, not myths. Even today, too many people call the Liberals “Canada's natural governing party.” They aren't, and haven't been for a long time.

Conservatives and Liberals have roughly split power evenly since 1984. Today, the Conservatives are newly re-elected (albeit with a minority), better financed and organized, and growing in every part of Canada, except perhaps Quebec.

Liberals, by contrast, are pitifully weak west of Ontario, largely absent from Quebec outside Montreal and environs, and have been beaten in the industrial cities of Ontario outside Toronto: Hamilton, Windsor, Kitchener, Sudbury, Thunder Bay.

The coalition that sustained Pierre Trudeau has largely vanished. No more Quebec. No more industrial Ontario. No more swaths of support in Western Canada. Tories are increasingly competitive in ethnic communities. What's left for the Liberals are Atlantic Canadian strongholds, Montreal ridings with lots of ethnic voters, the Greater Toronto Area, a little pocket in central Vancouver, and scattered ridings such as one in Regina and the Yukon seat.

This shrunken hulk is also broke. A Liberal government under Jean Chrétien passed a law for financing parties. It abolished union and corporate contributions and set a $5,000 limit. With it, the Liberals shot themselves in both feet.

The party had relied more than others on large individual and corporate contributions. At a stroke, these vanished, and so did the Liberals' financial underpinning. The new law's public, per vote subsidy couldn't make up the difference, since the act's entry into force coincided with the decline in Liberal votes that has continued since Mr. Chrétien left office. Matters were made worse for the Liberals when Prime Minister Stephen Harper dropped the maximum contribution to $1,100.

Finances aside, the Liberals have lost their voice in large parts of Canada.

Quebec's political culture is highly nationalistic. What exists there are various shadings of nationalism. The Liberals are still perceived in the province as strongly federalist and not terribly welcoming to nationalist discourse. The shadow of the sponsorship scandal hasn't entirely gone away, either.

The West overwhelmingly sees Liberals as a Central Canadian party. Every leader in its history has come from Ontario and Quebec, except perhaps for John Turner, who was born in British Columbia. Stéphane Dion and those who want to succeed him are mostly from Ontario and Quebec, too. In the divided left-right world of provincial politics on the Prairies, the centrist Liberals are a marginal force – just as they are federally.

The Liberal Party always was a big-tent, protean kind of party, full of shadings and interests. Power, however, kept the party united, and pushed differences underground.

Once the party lost power in 1984, it developed the debilitating habits of factionalism and disagreements over policy. The frustrations of opposition have only deepened them.

The Turner-Chrétien rivalry was succeeded by the Chrétien-Paul Martin rivalry. The last leadership campaign reflected the absence of an obvious successor, so that Mr. Dion emerged as the winner – the least objectionable second choice for the largest number of delegates

It was superficially an impressive victory to come from behind and win. But that kind of victory contained seeds of trouble: defeated candidates, badmouthing, lack of cohesion, debts, all compounded by Mr. Dion's inability to listen and form a team.

The factions remain: the supporters of Bob Rae and Michael Ignatieff and maybe other defeated candidates last time, waiting to reassemble for another go. The party would dearly love to find someone other than these two men in their early 60s – someone in his or her late 40s or early 50s. A scan of possible names reveals a disturbing paucity of genuine leadership talent. When a party shrinks, so does the talent pool. So does the money pool.

The Liberals, with a dreadful record on climate change in office, tried to paint themselves green in electing Mr. Dion. His Green Shift tax policy flopped, whatever its intellectual merits. With the economy tanking, the environment will fade somewhat as an issue.

The Liberals will need a leader who can speak (in both official languages) intelligently about the economy, someone who knows how to run things should the country sour on the Harper Conservatives, an orator who can inspire, and one who is open to new ideas that might put the party back into the discourse in the wide swaths of Canada where the party has almost disappeared.

Just to add a bit, and at risk of repeating myself: Lester B Pearson reshaped the Liberal Party and, consequently, Canadian politics by:

-  Changing the ’style’ of the political processes by bringing e.g. Jim Coutts and Keith Davey into the centre and, thereby, changing how politics is done – in a much more American manner, and

-  Bringing Québec’s three wise men, very left of centre 'wise men,' Marchand, Pelletier and Trudeau to Ottawa and, explicitly, changing the very nature of the country by recognizing Québec as one of the deux nations.

In so doing Pearson broke with Laurier, King and St Laurent who always recognized Québec as special, maybe even as primus inter pares but who recognized French Canadians, all of them, not just those in Québec, as one of the founding peoples.

Trudeau took all that Pearson had done, politically, and then, effectively, repudiated (in his disastrously ill-conceived and stupidly drafted 1970 white paper A Foreign Policy for Canadians) all of the St Laurent/Pearson foreign policy and economic/fiscal ‘heritage.’ He steered the Liberal Party sharply to the left and, thanks to his charisma, he inculcated a generation of Canadians with simplistic left wing and anti-American ideas.

John Turner fought back, hoping to move he Liberal Party back to the St Laurent/Pearson fiscal and foreign policy centre but Trudeau’s machine was much too powerful. The Trudeau/Turner war ‘morphed’ into the Turner/Chrétien battles which, in their turn, evolved into the Chrétien/Martin mêlée.

I will repeat my view that the Liberals are LOST, lost, lost if they cannot end this war – in favour of the St Laurent/Pearson/Turner/Martin position - and move the Party well back into the centre. The left, even the centre-left is too crowded, and who wants pretend-left-Liberals when a real-no-shit-left-NDP is there?

Am I blaming it all on the long dead Trudeau? Yes!

Am I, a card carrying Tory, gloating? No! (Well, honestly, maybe just a wee, tiny bit.  :-\ ) Repeating myself again: The Liberal Party of Canada is an important national institution; we need it to be a 'government-in-waiting.' But we do not want a loony-left government-in-waiting, we want a sensible, centrist party ready to take the reigns of power.
 
In general terms I agree with your assessment of what the Liberals should do if they are acting in both the national and their own best long term interests. It remains to be seen if they opt to keep on their left wing path, especially if the next leader is from that part of the spectrum. I suspect given the preponderance of candidates of that genre - Rae, Kennedy and possibly Dryden and Hall-Findlay with a dunno about Leblanc - that they are apt to reinforce failure. I may be hopelessly pollyannaistic but given slow economic times over the next little while, the country is not apt to embrace loony economics.

If that happens, and it should not for the good of Canada, then we are apt to have a choice between two parties, one (the CPC) on the centre-right and the other (a united Liberal rump and the NDP) on the left wing. When, and it always happens, the people toss out the CPC rascals, we are going to be faced with a wildy socialistic, anti-american, anti-establishment cabal.
 
Not if the "United Liberal Rump" grows into the centre-left "Liberal Democrat" party!
 
Old Sweat said:
...
If that happens, and it should not for the good of Canada, then we are apt to have a choice between two parties, one (the CPC) on the centre-right and the other (a united Liberal rump and the NDP) on the left wing. When, and it always happens, the people toss out the CPC rascals, we are going to be faced with a wildy socialistic, anti-american, anti-establishment cabal.

Agreed. There is a left-of-centre route to power for the Liberals, BUT it involves some sort of coalition with the NDP and that, effectively, means writing off the Liberals as a national party able to govern on its own. I'm guessing (maybe hoping?) most Liberals can see that logical conclusion and will react accordingly - by moving back to the centre, starting with the rejection of Kennedy et al at the May 2009 leadership contest.
 
The one thing going for the Liberals is going to be the depression of the population in a few years.

Right now we have an Economic Crisis, the CPC is holding steady, this is comfortable to the population......but like normal people, the population as a whole will want to go out and spend once they are sure nothing bad will happen. The Liberals are great at thinking up ways for the population to feel it is spending without really spending. (eg: Universal DayCare, kelowna Accord, Universal Pharmacare....I know, I know, they all cost out far more than we can afford,) the Liberals are generally able to get enough people on the bandwagon to laud them loudly and clearly that this SHOULD be a UNIVERSAL RIGHT!!

Once people start believing the liberal lies, they will want the stick-in-the-mud CPC out, because that is what the Liberals will tell them they want....It matters not that the CPC saw the country safely through the today's crisis, it will be "What have you done for me today" type of attitude......
 
No where did Jack Layton or Monsieur Dion state where the money would come from,.,,,oh sorry....make the rich pay.
 
The manouevre battle is already shaping up inside the Liberal Party ranks:

http://stevejanke.com/archives/276068.php

Are we all staring at a major element of the Liberal Party leadership race and not recognizing it for what it is?

If Stephane Dion announces his intention not to remain as Liberal Party leader, conventional wisdom has it that Bob Rae and Michael Ignatieff are lined up to battle it out once again.

Indeed we are told that both have already begun their leadership races, but behind the scenes, so as not to appear too eager, at least not until Stephane Dion is properly disposed of.

But I wonder if there is a very public element of the Liberal leadersip race unfolding right in front of everyone:

CTV News reported on Saturday that senior Liberal officials have chosen [John] McCallum to take the reins of the party until the next leadership convention, but the finance critic has refused to confirm whether he has been chosen.

"I have far too much respect for my leader and sympathy for the character assassination he suffered under the Conservatives, to speculate in any way whatsoever about being the interim leader," McCallum said Sunday on CTV's Question Period.

Liberal House Leader Ralph Goodale is also a contender for the job.

CTV's Ottawa Bureau Chief Robert Fife reported Sunday that Goodale is pushing hard behind the scenes to line up caucus support to become interim leader if Dion steps down, party insiders say.

Sources say the unilingual Goodale appears to have substantial caucus backing but his team understands it needs a francophone MP as a deputy leader.

McCallum, who is bilingual, supported Michael Ignatieff in the leadership race while Goodale back Bob Rae.

Now the fact that McCallum and Goodale were not neutral in the last leadership race is being reported as a liability for each of them, since the interim leader is supposed to be neutral.

But look how it played out.  Stephane Dion leads the Liberal Party into a spectacular crash on election night.  Before the week is out, Michael Ignatieff's man, John McCallum is being declared the interim leader by CTV via well-informed insiders getting the news out.

Remember the role CTV played in eliminating whatever vestiges of hope were left in the Stephane Dion campaign when the ATV interview was aired.  These well-informed insiders are clearly not entertaining the idea that Stephane Dion could stay on in any capacity, suggesting that these well-informed insiders are connected to one of the main leadership camps.

Within 24 hours, though, the race for interim leader heats up.  Which is bizarre, by the way, because who races to be interim leader, and in such a public way?  We learn, again through well-informed insiders talking to CTV, that Bob Rae's man, Ralph Goodale, has started making calls and pulling caucus members together to support his bid to be interim leader.

OK, did we all miss it?  Are Michael Ignatieff and Bob Rae each trying to put their man into the spot of interim leader?   if so, why?  The interim leader is supposed to be neutral.

An even stranger idea is Stephan Dion might get the last word in after all:

http://stevejanke.com/archives/276068.php

Something just occurred to me.  Could Stephane Dion be planning to lead the Liberals through a second election?

This is absurd, but in today's Globe and Mail article, there are hints of a strange plan taking shape:

Stéphane Dion is not acting like a man easily accepting his defeat as he is expected to announce today that he will step down as Liberal leader.

He has been in seclusion at Stornoway, his official residence in Ottawa, for nearly a week now. And while he began to reach out on the weekend to some MPs defeated in last Tuesday's election, he doesn't appear to have been in a rush to contact some one of his most senior caucus officials. That included, as of Saturday morning, Whip Karen Redman, who lost in her Kitchener, Ont., riding. And for at least three days after Tuesday's result, Mr. Dion had not spoken to his closest rivals, Toronto Centre MP Bob Rae and deputy leader Michael Ignatieff.

Mr. Rae would not comment yesterday as to whether he has yet spoken to Mr. Dion.

Over the weekend, Mr. Dion told one defeated candidate to "stay strong and trim and be ready," surmising that the budget that the Harper Conservatives deliver in February "is going to be a mess." The Harper Tories were held to a minority government last Tuesday and a budget vote is a confidence matter that could bring down the government.

"He didn't sound like someone who is leaving," a senior Liberal source said.

Imagine that Stephane Dion announces that he will quit the Liberal leadership today at 2pm, as is widely expected (though no sure thing).  But Stephane Dion also announces his decision to stay on until May as interim leader.  The next Liberal Party convention is in May, and that would be the earliest opportunity to choose a new leader.

Consumed with guilt, the Liberals allow Stephane Dion to stay on.  Of course, this is no sure thing either:

"There are those who feel that Mr. Dion deserves to stay on as leader until the May convention, which will obviously be a leadership convention," said a strategist who travelled with him during the campaign. "A number feel since he won the leadership fair and square he should be allowed to leave with dignity at the convention."

Another Liberal said that those who want him to stay "can't fill a small automobile."

Let's assume, though, that this is what Stephane Dion has been working feverishly on for a week -- lining up enough support to hold on as interim leader.

Imagine he succeeds in becoming interim leader.  A harmless decision, right?  But the Conservatives bring down a budget in February.  Stephane Dion has told one defeated candidate to be ready to go back into an election in February.

But that would mean the Liberals would lead a vote against the budget in February.

Would that been Stephane Dion leading that vote?

Would that be Stephane Dion leading the Liberals through the resulting election?

I can't imagine the caucus of a financially broke Liberal Party allowing this to happen.  But maybe Stephane Dion thinks that in the next three months, he can swing the caucus to his way of thinking, especially of he explains that he has learned from this mistakes in this past election.  Maybe Stephane Dion thinks that, this time, Canadians will vote a ham sandwich as prime minister as long as the ham sandwich is a Liberal running against Stephen Harper and the Conservatives.

Stephane Dion certainly thinks himself as more electable than a ham sandwich.  If enough Liberal MPs come to that conclusion as well, Dion hopes, they'll back him in another election fight.

It's all ridiculous, of course.  But as I've pointed out, Stephane Dion is exhibiting the behaviours of someone who is almost pathologically fearful of being labeled inferior.

The bonus is that if Stephane Dion were to lead the Liberals into an election by defeating a Conservative budget, he would be able to put the Ricker Mercer Liberal video behind him.

A slightly less crazy plan: Perhaps Stephane Dion isn't as crazy as all that.  Perhaps all Stephane Dion wants to do is lead a Liberal caucus in a vote against a Conservative budget, but is fully expecting the NDP or the Bloc Quebecois to abstain in sufficient numbers to avoid an election.  One actual vote, and then he'll go away.
 
Hmmm... hoping to defeat the budget, discredit the Conservative government, force a new election, and ride the white horse to a Liberal victory?

That is one long chain of hopeful thinking...
 
Well, Dion has decided to stay on as Liberal leader until the party can convene a leadership convention. However he will not enter the contest. What are the implications? Can he influence the leadership race by favoring some over others? What does this do to his personal financial situation and to the party's finances and prospects to retire its debt?

At first blush this seems to me not to be the best choice for the party, although it might allow him to exit with a bit of dignity and less debt. However he may be able to influence the process towards picking a leader from the left, which is where I feel he had his natural home. Perhaps that is his goal. We have already discussed the implications of the party steering left, which is a very crowded route. This also, I think, implies that there is an attitude that the Liberals as the natural governing party need not cater to the mob, who will come to its senses and vote the way it should, for the Grits.

Ultimately I suggest this was the choice of a proud, arrogant man who will not accept responsibility for the party's failure. Listen to his speech for any signs of contrition. He may be hoping against hope that the CPC government will fall on the budget and he will be poised to gain power and implement his brilliant policies.
 
Gawd... more NDP than the NDP ???
Don't think Canada needs or deserves this...
 
I would suggest that his staying on as Liberal leader is a combination of two things; the lack of money in the Liberal War Chests at the moment to finance another Leadership Convention, and the desire to retire with a very good Pension.  What is the Pension like for a Party Leader, and how many years does it take to accumulate the "points", as Leader, to have a larger pension than the everyday Member of Parliament?
 
Dunno...reduced penisons didn't seem to bother Paul Martin, Stockwell Day or Preston Manning...

They all went into leadership camapigns & took their seats with the rest of the troops in the house.
 
This is all about Dions ego...
 
The Liberals would have had a leadership review in any case after the election, probably followed by a separate leadership selection. They will save some money this way, quite a bit actually, but some expenditure was coming anyway. As for the extra in his pension, I am sure some smart folks are figuring that out at this time.

I fear the party is getting into the same state as Custer at the Little Bighorn; whether one goes for a left flanking, a right flanking or a frontal really doesn't change the outcome all that much. Custer tried all three at the same time, by the way.
 
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