Is the Annexation of Canada part of Bush's Military Agenda?

[Bruce Monkhouse]

QUOTE,
As for the comparison you made, it's a little different when the U.S. already spends more than 8 times (!!!) more than the next biggest military--China.

Disillusioned,
you are wrecking a good rye buzz :....did you ever stop and think just for one second that most of that is because they actually pay thier soldiers enough to make a living on?

 

[NavyGrunt]

Wow, sounds like what has ALREADY happened in Canada. Maybe they see something wrong with their political process at home and are thinking about how to make changes....?

Yeah, but you forgot the part of the site where they say the want "U.S. domination of land, seas, and space, using laser-weapons and nuclear weapons.....you want an insane country running the human race, or do you want an independent voice like Canada to build itself up and become a force for humanity with brains, not psychosis?

As for the comparison you made, it's a little different when the U.S. already spends more than 8 times (!!!) more than the next biggest military--China. Their defences don't need to be "rebuilt."



Its hard for any of us to take you seriously when you refer to the Americans as an "Insane country" without "brains"and suffering from "psychosis". Your tin foil hat is a little too tight. Im glad that americans spend 8 times what China does. Keeps China from eyeing up Canada(who doesnt spend enough). Someone has to be King Shit on Poop Mmountain. Better America than China.....or and other country that crosses my mind at the moment.

 

[a_majoor]

Yeah, but you forgot the part of the site where they say the want "U.S. domination of land, seas, and space, using laser-weapons and nuclear weapons.....you want an insane country running the human race, or do you want an independent voice like Canada to build itself up and become a force for humanity with brains, not psychosis?

As for the comparison you made, it's a little different when the U.S. already spends more than 8 times (!!!) more than the next biggest military--China. Their defences don't need to be "rebuilt."

I'd rather have US domination than, say Chinese domination of land, seas and space.

As for Canada being the voice of reason, have you paid attention at all during the last ten years or so, as people like Lloyd Axeworthy trumpeted "Soft Power" and the "Human Security Agenda" while doing absolutely nothing to implement it, besides hectoring the Americans and staying silent during UN votes targeting democratic Israel? Ever wonder why I was in Bosnia helping supervise the "Dayton Peace Accord" (as in Dayton, Ohio) rather than, say the "Montreal Peace Accord"? I think the shoes of reason and psychosis are switched in your worldview.

As for the expenditures on defense, the US is not only paying their soldiers a living wage, modernizing their Armed Forces to incorporate technologies and organizational advances undreamed of 20 years ago, but also putting a defense umbrella over a global community of freeloaders against hostile powers like China.

You may not like the ideas that are being discussed on the "New American Century" site, but at least someone is thinking about the future and offering alternatives. If you don't like them, then I suggest you offer some BETTER IDEAS instead of name calling.

 

[oyaguy]

To answer the post, no, annexing Canada is not a part of Bush's military agenda. When it comes to resources, the Americans do what everyone else does, and buys them. People who say Bush invaded Iraq for oil don't understand that strategic resources only matter if there is a strategic threat.
Besides, if the US did invade Canada, things will be worse than just the US invading Canada. The rule is democracies don't fight each other, and I think there might be one or two small exceptions, but for two well developed democracies like Canada and the US, war is simply an impossibility. For all the lack of attention the average American gives to Canada, an agressive war against Canada would simply be impossible to justify.
For the sack of argument though, lets explore this possibility of an American invasion of Canada.
To begin, American simply doesn't have the military and economy to fight a war against a well-developed country like Canada. I sincerely doubt Canadian politicians would be blind to the writing on the wall that America is planning an invasion either, and we could:
A) build up our military, which with conscription involved we could have 2-3 million in uniform waiting on the border. Note, very conservative numbers.
B) Engage in economic warfare. This would entail Canada stopping commerce from crossing the border. This would probably hurt Canada as much, if not more than the US, but if it is an invasion we are talking about, so be it. If we could get China and Japan on our side, overnight they could destroy the American currency, and tank the American economy. How? If you have ever wondered how the Americans can run such huge budget deficits, they do so by selling treasury bonds(?? Please don't quote me on this, I'm not sure if it is treasury bonds) and the Chinese and Japanese like buying these up to prop up the US dollar against the Yen, and Yuan. They do this to keep up their trade deficits. Dumping the currency is what the US did against Britain during the Suez Crisis, sparking a run on the pound, and making the Brits say uncle {Yes there was a little more to it than that}.
C) WMD. If all that still doesn't make the Americans back off, we could always pull out a few nuclear weapons. We have the resources and technical expertise, and a whole lot of big nothing to hid a couple dozen nuclear weapons in. Also, they would only have to be intermediate ballistic missles {not intercontnental}, making the technical challenge that much easier.
Of course to fight off this hypothetical American invasion would destroy the Canadian economy and cost hundreds of thousand if not millions of lives for both sides. Throw nuclear weapons into the equation and Canada and the US will cease to function as nations.
So again, no, annexing Canada is not a part of Bush's military agenda.

 

[Brad Sallows]

>As for what we would lose, umm, our soveriegnty, our military, (that means you) our technical expertise, our resources, our economy, our jobs, our income, our dollar, our CBC, our politics (we'd never get a vote.) our future, our potential as a future world power, our future as a sane voice in a crazy, corrupt world.

Our potential as a power is already stillborn.  I see no evidence Canadians are willing, let along eager, to pay the freight to gain power and influence abroad, to say nothing of mere respect.

I am not sure why you feel we would lose all those things, except sovereignty as Canadians (and the CBC, which you are incorrect to assume has value to everyone).  Even the armed forces might very well be absorbed into US forces, if the offer were made and accepted.  Otherwise, I assume everyone would return to factory and farm.  I am not sure how you expect to motivate people to fight in defence of the CBC, or of mining and forestry conglomerates, or of pictures of the Queen on the $20 bill.  There would still be jobs, income, and legal tender.

Those of you who think it's great fun to tweak the tiger's tail might ask whether the people who actually go in harm's way would appreciate being placed in that situation in such an extreme scenario as a result of your self-indulgence.

Try again: in defence of what do you think people would fight and die?  I am genuinely curious to see what pops out of the keyboards.

 

[NavyGrunt]

As for losing"being canadian". Yes i would be saddened. But I dont see America as the evil empire. I see them as a kindred spirit. in most things. This entire discussion is upsurd though. If they did you would have to decide on your own what is worth dying for. Healthcare?

I actually dont see my life changing much though. Except "Hockey night in America"...sounds weird.

 

[oyaguy]

Aside from the fact that an American invasion of Canada is never going to happen, yeah, I think Canadians would fight. Why? Because it is our country. No matter how free our trade is, or how many big macs we eat, or American magazines we read, movies we watch, we are still Canadian and we still call the shots above the 49th. Parallel. Sorry for anyone who thinks Canadian nationalism is the punchline of joke, but something like a modern American invasion of Canada, would probably do more for nationalism than anything 137 years of history has come up with. Nothing galvanizes a people more than a foreign threat.

 

[NavyGrunt]

But what are ypu fighting against- the exact same form of lifestyle you have now. Its no different. Nothing changes. Sure "poutine" would be changed to fries and gravy. But to me Id rather see my kids grow up than die fighting for nothing. The way of life stays the same. If the red menace came over Id put my boot in his *** for sure. But its about life for me and my kids/family. If they will be safe and secure and enjoy freedom than I wont die for a name. IF my family is safe. God..these words feel dirty coming out of my mouth.

Politics and governments are what men in suits do far away from my life. I live free and lookout for my family and their freedom. Thats what I stand on guard for.I love Canada and have sworn multiple oaths to her and the Queen and I stand by all of them. But IF(this is so dumb to even talk about) it did happen I would have seriously evaluate how I would react. Economic take over is more plausible than conventional warfare though. Or maybe through political channels- a slow funneling of soveriegnty- "north american citizenship" and "north american currency" and so forth......thats how they ould do it. Those clever Shatner stealing, Mexico touchers ;D

And are they really a foreign threat? Why do we hve so much unguarded border then? It would be my cousins and uncles and aunts coming....bringing their filthy democracy and "english" and freedom of choice.....wait....we already have all that.

 

[oyaguy]

You have good points.
1. Yeah, this hypothetical American invasion vein, is dumb.
2. As for a political takeover, I don't think that will happen, for the reason the guy {the Prime Minster} signing the agreements doesn't want to give up his power. The whole North American citizenship thing is such reprehensible surrender of sovereignty, I can think of no reason it could possibly happen.
3. Economic takeover I think is becoming less relevant. The US overseas a declining share of the world's economy, so Canada has gotten past the rapids. The American economy at its biggest and baddest didn't swallow up Canada, and now America is in relative economic decline {it will no longer be as strong as everyone else}. A North American currency {Dumb, it would be called the US dollar} is a bad idea for Canada because the US is gearing up for an economic slap in the face when the card castle that supports their budget deficits finally collapses. Also, the Canadian economy is different from the American economy, so a common currency doesn't make sense. Moving money and goods over international borders is easy enough as it is, I don't think a common currency will make it anymore efficient.
4. As for a military takeover, isn't going to happen, wouldn't work.

 

[X Royal]

Xroyal....stop reading just the posts you can lie too

Bruce I don't care if you are on the directing staff that comment it out of line. Just because we disagree doesn't give you the right to make that accusation. If you would of taken the time to read my other posts you could clearly see it is untrue. As for your comment on another thread about our" resident Bush haters" we may also disagree on Bush but this is a discussion forum not a forum for only people of your view point. It is quite clear neither of us will influence each others view so lets agree to disagree and leave it at that.

Best Wishes

 

[NavyGrunt]

You have good points.
1. Yeah, this hypothetical American invasion vein, is dumb.
2. As for a political takeover, I don't think that will happen, for the reason the guy {the Prime Minster} signing the agreements doesn't want to give up his power. The whole North American citizenship thing is such reprehensible surrender of sovereignty, I can think of no reason it could possibly happen.
3. Economic takeover I think is becoming less relevant. The US overseas a declining share of the world's economy, so Canada has gotten past the rapids. The American economy at its biggest and baddest didn't swallow up Canada, and now America is in relative economic decline {it will no longer be as strong as everyone else}. A North American currency {Dumb, it would be called the US dollar} is a bad idea for Canada because the US is gearing up for an economic slap in the face when the card castle that supports their budget deficits finally collapses. Also, the Canadian economy is different from the American economy, so a common currency doesn't make sense. Moving money and goods over international borders is easy enough as it is, I don't think a common currency will make it anymore efficient.
4. As for a military takeover, isn't going to happen, wouldn't work.

10-4 I concur

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Xroyal..."lie" was the wrong word, something more along the lines of "casually pretend it wasn't there"
Apologies
....and on another note ,yes I am a moderator but I am also a poster and I keep those things separate. If I need to post as a moderator than I usually will state that if it isn't too obvious.
Do not have a problem with disagreeing with me just because of that.
Bruce

 

[X Royal]

Bruce if you read your post you can see how I took this to mean that all my posts were lies not just the thread we were disagreeing on. That being said lets just let it rest. Maybe we were both a little too quick to react and had chosen poor words.

Best Wishes to you Bruce

 

[Disillusioned]

Yeah, but you forgot the part of the site where they say the want "U.S. domination of land, seas, and space, using laser-weapons and nuclear weapons.....you want an insane country running the human race, or do you want an independent voice like Canada to build itself up and become a force for humanity with brains, not psychosis?

As for the comparison you made, it's a little different when the U.S. already spends more than 8 times (!!!) more than the next biggest military--China. Their defences don't need to be "rebuilt."



Its hard for any of us to take you seriously when you refer to the Americans as an "Insane country" without "brains"and suffering from "psychosis". Your tin foil hat is a little too tight. Im glad that americans spend 8 times what China does. Keeps China from eyeing up Canada(who doesnt spend enough). Someone has to be King crap on Poop Mmountain. Better America than China.....or and other country that crosses my mind at the moment.

It's a country has installed dictators, killed demoractically elected leaders, and supplied weapons for coups.......in a recent poll, over 79% of Canadians labelled the U.S. a Rogue nation. They have invaded or interfered with smaller countries over 300 times in the last 200 years.

I guess nuclear weapons in space counds appealing. :

 

[Disillusioned]

Yeah, but you forgot the part of the site where they say the want "U.S. domination of land, seas, and space, using laser-weapons and nuclear weapons.....you want an insane country running the human race, or do you want an independent voice like Canada to build itself up and become a force for humanity with brains, not psychosis?

As for the comparison you made, it's a little different when the U.S. already spends more than 8 times (!!!) more than the next biggest military--China. Their defences don't need to be "rebuilt."

I'd rather have US domination than, say Chinese domination of land, seas and space.

As for Canada being the voice of reason, have you paid attention at all during the last ten years or so, as people like Lloyd Axeworthy trumpeted "Soft Power" and the "Human Security Agenda" while doing absolutely nothing to implement it, besides hectoring the Americans and staying silent during UN votes targeting democratic Israel? Ever wonder why I was in Bosnia helping supervise the "Dayton Peace Accord" (as in Dayton, Ohio) rather than, say the "Montreal Peace Accord"? I think the shoes of reason and psychosis are switched in your worldview.

As for the expenditures on defense, the US is not only paying their soldiers a living wage, modernizing their Armed Forces to incorporate technologies and organizational advances undreamed of 20 years ago, but also putting a defense umbrella over a global community of freeloaders against hostile powers like China.

You may not like the ideas that are being discussed on the "New American Century" site, but at least someone is thinking about the future and offering alternatives. If you don't like them, then I suggest you offer some BETTER IDEAS instead of name calling.

First of all--I wasn't name-calling.

Secondly, the U.S. has actually cut benefits to its soldiers, sent two-thirds of its troops to Iraw without simple vests, and has used internationally illegal weapons like depleted-uranium and cluster bombs in places like Iraq, killing innocent people and exposing many of their own soldiers as well to radiation, as many Gulf-War victims can attest to.

 

[Disillusioned]

To answer the post, no, annexing Canada is not a part of Bush's military agenda. When it comes to resources, the Americans do what everyone else does, and buys them. People who say Bush invaded Iraq for oil don't understand that strategic resources only matter if there is a strategic threat.
Besides, if the US did invade Canada, things will be worse than just the US invading Canada. The rule is democracies don't fight each other, and I think there might be one or two small exceptions, but for two well developed democracies like Canada and the US, war is simply an impossibility. For all the lack of attention the average American gives to Canada, an agressive war against Canada would simply be impossible to justify.
For the sack of argument though, lets explore this possibility of an American invasion of Canada.
To begin, American simply doesn't have the military and economy to fight a war against a well-developed country like Canada. I sincerely doubt Canadian politicians would be blind to the writing on the wall that America is planning an invasion either, and we could:
A) build up our military, which with conscription involved we could have 2-3 million in uniform waiting on the border. Note, very conservative numbers.
B) Engage in economic warfare. This would entail Canada stopping commerce from crossing the border. This would probably hurt Canada as much, if not more than the US, but if it is an invasion we are talking about, so be it. If we could get China and Japan on our side, overnight they could destroy the American currency, and tank the American economy. How? If you have ever wondered how the Americans can run such huge budget deficits, they do so by selling treasury bonds(?? Please don't quote me on this, I'm not sure if it is treasury bonds) and the Chinese and Japanese like buying these up to prop up the US dollar against the Yen, and Yuan. They do this to keep up their trade deficits. Dumping the currency is what the US did against Britain during the Suez Crisis, sparking a run on the pound, and making the Brits say uncle {Yes there was a little more to it than that}.
C) WMD. If all that still doesn't make the Americans back off, we could always pull out a few nuclear weapons. We have the resources and technical expertise, and a whole lot of big nothing to hid a couple dozen nuclear weapons in. Also, they would only have to be intermediate ballistic missles {not intercontnental}, making the technical challenge that much easier.
Of course to fight off this hypothetical American invasion would destroy the Canadian economy and cost hundreds of thousand if not millions of lives for both sides. Throw nuclear weapons into the equation and Canada and the US will cease to function as nations.
So again, no, annexing Canada is not a part of Bush's military agenda.

I agree that American is declining, and that a military invasion would be nearly impossilble to pull off, however I don't think you rread the entire site:

My whole point was our political elites right now are trying to put our army and Navy (that means you guys) under U.S. command.....this would be the end of our sovereignty if it were not reversed.

You don't ahve to invade a country, you simply have to corrupt its political process.

 

[Disillusioned]

As for losing"being canadian". Yes i would be saddened. But I dont see America as the evil empire. I see them as a kindred spirit. in most things. This entire discussion is upsurd though. If they did you would have to decide on your own what is worth dying for. Healthcare?

I actually dont see my life changing much though. Except "Hockey night in America"...sounds weird.

A kindred spirit that owns Canada, and has killed millions of people to further their political agenda for no good reason....Healthcare is only the first thing you woudl lose....you'd also be much poorer, as American is more and more becoming a have-not country, except for the few.

Hopefully dying for Canada is a more worthy cause than dying in Afghanistan at the hands of two psychotic U.S. fighter pilots.

 

[Disillusioned]

But what are ypu fighting against- the exact same form of lifestyle you have now. Its no different. Nothing changes. Sure "poutine" would be changed to fries and gravy. But to me Id rather see my kids grow up than die fighting for nothing. The way of life stays the same. If the red menace came over Id put my boot in his *** for sure. But its about life for me and my kids/family. If they will be safe and secure and enjoy freedom than I wont die for a name. IF my family is safe. God..these words feel dirty coming out of my mouth.

Politics and governments are what men in suits do far away from my life. I live free and lookout for my family and their freedom. Thats what I stand on guard for.I love Canada and have sworn multiple oaths to her and the Queen and I stand by all of them. But IF(this is so dumb to even talk about) it did happen I would have seriously evaluate how I would react. Economic take over is more plausible than conventional warfare though. Or maybe through political channels- a slow funneling of soveriegnty- "north american citizenship" and "north american currency" and so forth......thats how they ould do it. Those clever Shatner stealing, Mexico touchers ;D

And are they really a foreign threat? Why do we hve so much unguarded border then? It would be my cousins and uncles and aunts coming....bringing their filthy democracy and "english" and freedom of choice.....wait....we already have all that.

Most Canadians live in a few concentrated areas, and their lives would be very different.

 

[NavyGrunt]

Most Canadians live in a few concentrated areas, and their lives would be very different.

How?

 

[Disillusioned]

How?

Well, that's a good question, and a hard one to anwser, because being "Canadian" is not well-defined yet.

-I live in Toronto, and I can tell you that there is much more of an extreme difference between the rich and the poor in Toronto than there used to be, but it's still nothing near that of a U.S. city....

-Canadians wouldn't morph into different people, but there would be a proliferation of handguns if our border were eliminated, and the U.S. has 10 times the gun murders we do per capita.

--Our arts industry would disappear, not that we have a huge arts industry yet.

--University tuition would continue to rise, until poor people had little access to post-secondary education.

--Any chance of enhancing our bigger and smaller cities would eventually disappear, as our wealth would be American-owned and spent in American cities, and our skilled workers would all have to leave for greener pastures, hence our population would be much poorer--see Puerto Rico.

--Most hospitals in Canada would be privatized, and many rural hospitals closed, as is already happening slowly.

--If you care more about military issues--Canada would never get the chance to repeal that awful 90-year agreement Diefenbaker signed, stating we would "Never build another fixed-wing or flexible-wing military aircraft for 90 years."

Canada has some of the absolute best researchers and scientists in the world, and we would lose our chance to use that expertise to build a Canadian-designed military, fighter jets, tanks, helicopters, ships,  and our own car companie(s), our own farm machinery, our own pharmaceutical companies.

--Also, we'd lose our chance to make our own decisions, and would be governed by manifest destiny, rather than peace, order, and good government.

This is the msot dangerous thing--if the "one-worlders" or "globalists" get their way, we'll be a potential forever lost, rather than a country with the most resources in the world, who could be a middle-power easily now, and much more if we increased our population to say 100 million, not through immigration but through making childbirth more affordable and offering more financial incentives to have kids.

If we did this Quebec nationalism would probably disappear, and we'd have no other huge threat to national unity.....this is a critical stage we need to get past--first step is thwarting Martin and his awful group of globalists, as well as John Manley's NAFTA+ he's trying to sell us.