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Best Air Support ?

:brickwall: The war on terrorism will probably last another twenty years. Up against lightly armed enemies using gorilla tactics an AC 130 would be the prefect air support platform. Who's to say our troops won't have there stay in Afghanistan extended. Or NATO will be call on to fight terrorism in another country say Somalia and will be obligated to send troops. I think 4 t0 6 AC 130 would do us nicely.
 
Please read through the thread to see the counterarguments.
 
toglmonster said:
... Up against lightly armed enemies using gorilla tactics...

Quick to the National Geographic library and get us some old Diane Fossey tapes and books to use as training manuals. 8)

BTW you may want to invest in proof reading and or spell check. Unless you know something about a  new Taliban weapon we don't.
 
Speaking of loiter time how long can a triple seven remain on station? Oh 45 days or so good to hear.

Best description of the Canadian military "Caviar tastes with Kraft Dinner budgets".

What people think we "need" we don't. AH-64s? AC-130s? Look at the man power requirement and the cost per hour of rotor/prop time. We can not afford them.
Or we can overwatch/FOO with UAVs and pound arty shells and JDAMs into problem areas, kind of like we have been doing.

 
Gunnerlove said:
Speaking of loiter time how long can a triple seven remain on station? Oh 45 days or so good to hear.

Best description of the Canadian military "Caviar tastes with Kraft Dinner budgets".

What people think we "need" we don't. AH-64s? AC-130s? Look at the man power requirement and the cost per hour of rotor/prop time. We can not afford them.
Or we can overwatch/FOO with UAVs and pound arty shells and JDAMs into problem areas, kind of like we have been doing.

+1

I'll make it a joint-endorsed answer and say I fully agree with Gunnerlove.  Primacy to the "fires" solution that maximizes COMBAT EFFECTIVENESS.  If other things can help/facilitate more efficiently (not the same as effectively) fine, add those into the tool box.  From my side, I'd start with a FOO/AOP course and designate for Excaliber first, then move on to fancy direct fire capabilities on my own machine.  There is something rather intimidating about seeing a battery's-worth of 155 VT lay some smack down on the baddies.

Cheers,
Duey
 
Instead of ac-130's we should be thinking of getting american Predetor UAV's with missiles attached. they'd be really useful in afghan., spot them, and bomb em. plus we could use them to spot fighters tryin to suprise our convoys (plus they'd look pretty cool in a recruiting add). :salute:

P.S:  My first post :)  :cdn:
 
LoboCanada said:
Instead of ac-130's we should be thinking of getting american Predetor UAV's with missiles attached. they'd be really useful in afghan., spot them, and bomb em. plus we could use them to spot fighters tryin to suprise our convoys (plus they'd look pretty cool in a recruiting add). :salute:

P.S:  My first post :)  :cdn:

+1  ...a good start, LoboCanada. 

MQ-9 (Pred B) is quite the system...not so much for what it is specifically (big, RC model plane) but for the integrated suite of capabilities and effects (network-enabled ISR and direct action) that it can bring to the overall operations.

Cheers,
Duey.
 
Hmm.

We have M777, which is wonderful and I've become a huge fan.  Once you've taken the effort to put it in place you have reliable, lethal fire support.  Then layer on your AHs and CAS.

AHs and CAS do, however, allow you to quickly influence places in your AO that are not in range of your guns. 

I would argue for AH64 and then armed Pred.  I put the AH64 first so we can escort the choppers we are going to buy, and AHs are outstanding enablers when you're fighting fairly close to your base.  A small buy of armed Pred might be cheaper and would kill two birds with one stone (ISTAR plus CAS), but it wouldn't solve the escort bit.

The Aurora with JDAM is certainly intriguing.  Has it ever been done?  What boxometery is required to make it work here?

Retire the Snowbirds and Griffons and invest the PYs and O&M into something useful to go along with the CH-47s that are coming (AH-64s, medevac UH-60s and armed Pred).  There.  Done.  Now I'll fix the Navy.

2B

p.s. I'm just kidding about the Navy, and I'm sure the air force knows what it has to do.  I will now be serious.  In priority in terms of capability improvements- medevac, troop lift, ISR, CAS.  Please note for the first two you need AHs.  I'll let the air force pick platforms, but it had better be AH-64s (not necessarily Longbow), UH-60 and Armed Pred.  We're getting the CH-47s and we have the CF-18s.
 
im not sure about the uh-60's, they're getting older/mature stage now, and i dont know why we always choose yank companies, why not Eurocopter? buy some tigers, cus they're cheaper, newer(and look cooler) and we can get some economic benefits too. If more European companies invest in Canada (and visa-vera, the less we'll have to worry about when the yanks starts to become bankrupt (they are in big debt, which will catch up with them (and hit us hard too)) soon enough. plus there's a Eurocopter facility in central Ontario (dunno wat it is). Or we could buy some russian Hinds, ya they're old, but we can ask the Poles for some help with them about desert ops (Poles use em in Iraq). i can see the need for an attack/escort chopper, but i doubt we'd ever buy them, its all about the public, i think ppl will see them being some sort of killing machines or something, and wont buy votes at all. but i cant wait to see the forces 15 yrs from now....good/ok air mobility, gd oil rep.,.....and 1 or 2 working-ish condition OLD subs. they'll probably buy some chainguns off a blackhawk and put em on a chinook.
 
LoboCaada,
Here is some required reading for you..extra attention to the "MSN" speak, thank you.

MSN and ICQ "short hand" -  http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/33247.0.html

Regarding the use of "MSN speak" versus the employment of prose which is correct in grammar, spelling and punctuation, please see: http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/34015/post-260446.html#msg260446

Army.ca Conduct Guidelines: MUST READ - http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/24937.0.html

FRIENDLY ADVICE TO NEW MEMBERS - http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/24937/post-259412.html#msg259412

Recruiting FAQ - http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/21101.0.html

Infantry FAQ - http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/21131.0.html

Canadian Forces Aptitude Test - http://army.ca/forums/threads/21101/post-103977.html#msg103977

Fitness requirements at enrolment, see page 12 of this brochure:
http://www.recruiting.forces.ca/media/pdf/physical_fitness_en.pdf

Search page - http://forums.army.ca/forums/index.php?action=search;advanced

Army.ca wiki pages 
- http://army.ca/wiki/index.php/Main_Page


To summarize. Welcome to Army.ca, start reading.
 
Ouch man, i just wanted to get my point across, it has nothing to do with gramm-er jus' thought that eeder way u can stil read wat I'm sayin. You don't have to be mean about it. Just joking around about the spelling, its about 5:30, I'm surprised I'm actually able to read peoples rude shots at me, very encouraging to a new member. Relax, why is it so frustrating to read abbreviations? I'm just saying that your coming off a bit hostile. All the stuff I say in the forums is just opinion, plus, my dad's a hippie, so you can imagine that he's got an opinion on everything, so its hard trying not to be like that. Thanks for answering....all of my questions by the way. Just give me some time to get used to this.

thanks. :salute:
 
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/31327.0.html

Because we try to maintain a level of professionalism on this website in an internet world of sub-standard.
 
2Bravo said:
I'm sure the air force knows what it has to do.
Then you have way more faith than me, a big believer in the need for an Army Aviation Corps.
 
I get this common thread from the TacHel guys about Army Aviation...

 
2Bravo said:
Retire the Snowbirds.....

And for what it's worth, every year the Chief of the Air Staff visits the up & coming Air Force majors at the Canadian Forces College and asks for suggestions on the way ahead. Every year, the lead suggestion has always been "scrap the Snowbirds and invest elsewhere." Every year, the response has been, "not going to happen."
 
Wait a minute.  Are you telling me that Airforce people are suggesting that the Snowbirds go the way of the Dodo?
 
The "working" airforce.....Griffon, Herc, Sea King drivers....almost uniformly say, "if we're short of money, let's make operations the priority." (bizarre concept, I know)

To which the CAS routinely replies, "not an option, what else can you suggest?"

Perhaps the CAS is getting input from someone at a higher paygrade, since I've seen this from more than one CAS, so it's not just some fighter guy keeping more jets around.
 
Caviar tastes = AH-64

Kraft Dinner (read reality) budget = Bell ARH

And every new rotary pilot in the CF will be learning how to fly this airframe via Kelowna Flightcraft (can you smell the economy of scale?).

Screw the Auroras the US has the JDAMs covered.
 
Journeyman said:
And for what it's worth, every year the Chief of the Air Staff visits the up & coming Air Force majors at the Canadian Forces College and asks for suggestions on the way ahead. Every year, the lead suggestion has always been "scrap the Snowbirds and invest elsewhere." Every year, the response has been, "not going to happen."
Then send the snowchickens to Afghanistan, let them perform all over and while the Taliban, et al ,are gawking in amazement............like shooting chickens in a coop :p

As for the Herc gunship....heck, we are retiring the E models...so convert them to R/C...load 'em up with 20K plus worth of boom boom and kamikaze them into who or whatever.

Hahahahaha.........sorry, not to be taken seriously.
 
wonder if a helo gunship is the way to go OR look into something like the A10
From what I have heard of it, it is relatively low tech, can safely linger over a battlefield and capable of delivering close air support much faster than helos

Bonus is the titanium bathtub the pilots lounge in - possibly better protection than what can be built into the Helo structure.

A thought - IMHO
 
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