Active Shooter In NS. April 19 2020

[childs56]

No it doesn’t, the province doesn’t pay for federal cops. The RCMP funds federal members 100%. It’s absolutely split by persons, or specifically by positions. It actually costs the feds money to subsidize provincial policing, and it’s been sounding more and more clear that the feds (and even RCMP executive) wouldn’t be fussed to start closing down provincial policing. I think contract policing by the RCMP is something the federal government inherited and is stuck with, not something they ever actually wanted.

how do you explain this?

Funding | Alberta Municipalities

www.abmunis.ca

 

[brihard]

how do you explain this?

Funding | Alberta Municipalities

www.abmunis.ca

Easily. You don’t understand the difference between federal positions, and provincial/municipal positions under contract.

“Federal cops” doesn’t mean every police officer wearing an RCMP uniform; it means RCMP officers in federal policing positions- national security, federal and serious organized crime, federal cybercrime, border integrity, etc

Most RCMP officers, while employed and paid by a national police service, occupy positions that are municipal or provincial contract policing spots with costs mostly borne by the municipalities or province. Make sense now?

 

[Booter]

While all federal employees we aren’t all doing federal work. Those doing federal work are paid by the federal government,

Those doing provincial work and municipal work are “contracted” by the province or the municipality and the province or municipality pays the government an amount for them.

It does not cost the province or community money to have federal “work” RCMP members there.

 

[brihard]

While all federal employees we aren’t all doing federal work. Those doing federal work are paid by the federal government,

Those doing provincial work and municipal work are “contracted” by the province or the municipality and the province or municipality pays the government an amount for them.

It does not cost the province or community money to have federal “work” RCMP members there.

I think the distinction between a “national” police service, and “federal” police/policing is useful here.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

Easily. You don’t understand the difference between federal positions, and provincial/municipal positions under contract.

“Federal cops” doesn’t mean every police officer wearing an RCMP uniform; it means RCMP officers in federal policing positions- national security, federal and serious organized crime, federal cybercrime, border integrity, etc

Most RCMP officers, while employed and paid by a national police service, occupy positions that are municipal or provincial contract policing spots with costs mostly borne by the municipalities or province. Make sense now?

Bloody mercenaries, whoring themselves out to the far reaches of the Empire, like a 21st Century version of the Pinkertons

 

[childs56]

Easily. You don’t understand the difference between federal positions, and provincial/municipal positions under contract.

I do I understand it. I misinterpreted what you were saying a little bit.

Your statement that it costs the RCMP money to fund municipal services, in theory is true, in practice it is not.(all the money comes from tax payers and allocated per per person) If the federal specific positions were 100% staffed then I would partially agree with you. Often they are pulling resources from Municipal funded positions to assist with the Federal positions and vice versa. This is where the Municipal Services I think get a good value for their Contract Policing with the RCMP and vice versa.

example Dog services, an expensive venture for a Municipal Service to have especially a smaller detachment. But through the RCMP many smaller municipalities can have these services provided without the individual costs for multiple dog teams.

Same as your ERT team, Where a individual smaller municipality may not have enough members to form a team or even the budget to do so, the RCMP provides these teams through multiple detachments under one single provider.

Major Crimes/ Gangs/ Human trafficking/ Drugs and guns/ Forensics labs are another service that many smaller providers would not have direct access to. The RCMP due to their National services provides as a Major force multiplier in these areas. Edmonton spent a lot of money a few years ago for their Lab and upgrades.

“Federal cops” doesn’t mean every police officer wearing an RCMP uniform; it means RCMP officers in federal policing positions- national security, federal and serious organized crime, federal cybercrime, border integrity, etc

In a way it does. Because at any time a RCMP member can be responsible for any all laws statutes of the Country from Municipal Bylaws up to national terrorism. etc. Where's a Municipal Police Officer can be responsible for only local jurisdiction items. (municipal, Provincial) then call in the Feds for major crimes.

Most RCMP officers, while employed and paid by a national police service, occupy positions that are municipal or provincial contract policing spots with costs mostly borne by the municipalities or province. Make sense now?

yup, understood before. Thanks for the info.

 

[Booter]

In a way it does. Because at any time a RCMP member can be responsible for any all laws statutes of the Country from Municipal Bylaws up to national terrorism. etc. Where's a Municipal Police Officer can be responsible for only local jurisdiction items. (municipal, Provincial) then call in the Feds for major crimes.

That’s completely untrue. Like you have such a fundamental misunderstanding of what is federal and what is provincial that I don’t know how to begin to address it.

 

[FormerHorseGuard]

One of the issues I have read about was the lack of police issued fire power.

What would it take to remove some of the C7s or C8s out of storage and modify them to semi automatic weapons and give them to the various Police Departments. The RCMP keep saying it is a budget matter that there is not enough money to buy them.

The Canadian Government is giving them away to Ukraines, were given to the Afghanistan forces and returned. Why not use them in Canada, where fire power is needed? Just curious. Maybe someone has some insight here.

 

[Booter]

One of the issues I have read about was the lack of police issued fire power.

What would it take to remove some of the C7s or C8s out of storage and modify them to semi automatic weapons and give them to the various Police Departments. The RCMP keep saying it is a budget matter that there is not enough money to buy them.

The Canadian Government is giving them away to Ukraines, were given to the Afghanistan forces and returned. Why not use them in Canada, where fire power is needed? Just curious. Maybe someone has some insight here.

There’s no issue with access to semi automatic rifles in the organization anymore. I’m not sure what you mean- the overwhelming- high 90% area- of front line police officers in the RCMP have access to carbine.

It was an issue about 8 or so years ago during the rollout of the program- during that period there was a mix of trained and untrained people and only so many rifles.

Could you help me understand where you’re seeing this? I’m trying to think of the last time I heard the RCMP discussing this. I may be missing a big piece

 

[Booter]

Your statement that it costs the RCMP money to fund municipal services, in theory is true, in practice it is not.(all the money comes from tax payers and allocated per per person) If the federal specific positions were 100% staffed then I would partially agree with you. Often they are pulling resources from Municipal funded positions to assist with the Federal positions and vice versa. This is where the Municipal Services I think get a good value for their Contract Policing with the RCMP and vice versa.

The contracts also don’t work the way you’re describing- there are expectations and how many vacancies etc that are allowed to exist in the agreements when they are developed.

Positions aren’t being pulled around like that. Yes there are federal positions that are priorities to fill because of some mandate. But Some guy doesn’t put his uniform in a closet and put a suit on and report for duty somewhere else.

And it doesn’t cost the “RCMP” anything- it costs the federal government depending on the contract and type of service that they pay a portion of the cost for.

 

[Kat Stevens]

One of the issues I have read about was the lack of police issued fire power.

What would it take to remove some of the C7s or C8s out of storage and modify them to semi automatic weapons and give them to the various Police Departments. The RCMP keep saying it is a budget matter that there is not enough money to buy them.

The Canadian Government is giving them away to Ukraines, were given to the Afghanistan forces and returned. Why not use them in Canada, where fire power is needed? Just curious. Maybe someone has some insight here.

My son in law was in the traffic unit out here in buttfuck Alberta. I'm quite sure he had an assault rifle patrol carbine in his unit.

 

[childs56]

That’s completely untrue. Like you have such a fundamental misunderstanding of what is federal and what is provincial that I don’t know how to begin to address it.

Please explain, RCMP have been hired by Municipal to hand out tickets for Bylaw infractions like urinating in public/ trespassing etc, We do not see it much any more due to the staffing pressure. But a Bylaw Officer does not touch lets say human trafficking.
Some Municipal Police hand over Major crimes to the RCMP such as money laundering, interprovincial drug stuff.

Please do explain in depth then. I am sure I am not the only one with this misunderstanding as you state.

 

[Remius]

Please explain, RCMP have been hired by Municipal to hand out tickets for Bylaw infractions like urinating in public/ trespassing etc, We do not see it much any more due to the staffing pressure. But a Bylaw Officer does not touch lets say human trafficking.
Some Municipal Police hand over Major crimes to the RCMP such as money laundering, interprovincial drug stuff.

Please do explain in depth then. I am sure I am not the only one with this misunderstanding as you state.

Not sure if this will help.

Federal Policing and Contract Policing (province and municipal) are funded from different pools of money. While there may be some overlap where some FP funded positions may report to some contract policing org they fall under different groups and in most cases different CoCs.

The RCMP still has a positional based system where positions are managed by different groups with their own funds.

 

[childs56]

The contracts also don’t work the way you’re describing- there are expectations and how many vacancies etc that are allowed to exist in the agreements when they are developed.

Expectations verse actual reality are two very different things. Under staffing of RCMP detachments is a major concern across the communities they serve. Although there are a number of reasons for this. Simply put not enough overall resources for the services required. That is why Municipalities who use the RCMP for their services feel sluffed off (In many cases they need to look in the mirror for their issues.) have been looking at alternatives, unfortunate starting a Police Force from scratch is not cheap and not a easy process, even more daunting when politicians snap their fingers and expect it to magically happen with the available resources. With yes men so far up their butts surprise they are not comming out their mouths, some are I am sure.

Positions aren’t being pulled around like that. Yes there are federal positions that are priorities to fill because of some mandate. But Some guy doesn’t put his uniform in a closet and put a suit on and report for duty somewhere else.

Interesting you should say that, they may not put their uniform in the closet right away (they might need it for OT) they do go from uniform to jeans, shirt with vest, or maybe a suit seen it a more then a few times across the province. (again this provides a force multiplier for the citizens they would not have otherwise).
Where one day they are patrolling lets say the city of Red Deer, then a couple days later they are the other end of the province assisting in a homicides or that drug trafficking by GP.

And it doesn’t cost the “RCMP” anything- it costs the federal government depending on the contract and type of service that they pay a portion of the cost for.

Actually it costs the Treasury Board, who receives money from the Federal Government, Provincial Governments and Municipalities Who the Tax payers provide.

 

[Remius]

I have no idea where you are going with this.

 

[Booter]

Expectations verse actual reality are two very different things. Under staffing of RCMP detachments is a major concern across the communities they serve. Although there are a number of reasons for this. Simply put not enough overall resources for the services required. That is why Municipalities who use the RCMP for their services feel sluffed off (In many cases they need to look in the mirror for their issues.) have been looking at alternatives, unfortunate starting a Police Force from scratch is not cheap and not a easy process, even more daunting when politicians snap their fingers and expect it to magically happen with the available resources. With yes men so far up their butts surprise they are not comming out their mouths, some are I am sure.

Interesting you should say that, they may not put their uniform in the closet right away (they might need it for OT) they do go from uniform to jeans, shirt with vest, or maybe a suit seen it a more then a few times across the province. (again this provides a force multiplier for the citizens they would not have otherwise).
Where one day they are patrolling lets say the city of Red Deer, then a couple days later they are the other end of the province assisting in a homicides or that drug trafficking by GP.

Actually it costs the Treasury Board, who receives money from the Federal Government, Provincial Governments and Municipalities Who the Tax payers provide.

I’m fully aware of what the reality of it is. Having run operations in most of the places you’ve mentioned, in one capacity or another, in your post where you try and explain things to me.

A person in red deer on a watch doesn’t go to GP to help with drug trafficking. Perhaps if they were in A very specific job shop as a part timer. That shop in Alberta being provincial- and also contains municipal cops in a few functions. So you’re just plain wrong on every level of your post.

The may find themselves as a part time STO member who attends different calls for assistance around the province. Which is paid for by provincial money when they do, not the city.

There are municipal and provincial cops in national security teams at various times and places. Those cops at that time doing more federal paid work that my phone will never ring to do. They will always be selected before me. It’s is not “RCMP” is going to go from public urination to terrorism, the org sure, the personnel no.

Its not reality. Like you ask me to explain it in depth but your understanding of the structures is too confused to expand on,

RCMP members don’t enforce bylaws normally. The expectation is that communities hire bylaw officers. Can we? Sure. So can municipal cops.

Muni cops from various
Provinces also do relief work in other provinces without any jurisdiction issues- and sometimes RCMP aren’t the police of jurisdiction,

It just doesn’t work like how you’re describing. And public urination is provincial most places. Like which part do you want me to deal with first?

I mean it’s hard to even speak
Definitively about any of it because there are exceptions to everything. But the main thing is members occupy a position that’s paid by a level. That level isn’t just interchangeable without cost recovery- it has to be answered for. It’s not just you show up somewhere else. And there are limits and measures to keep them from blurring like you’re sugggestiing- and it’s being thrown around to make it even more controlled with the streams not touching each other at all.

 

[brihard]

Interesting you should say that, they may not put their uniform in the closet right away (they might need it for OT) they do go from uniform to jeans, shirt with vest, or maybe a suit seen it a more then a few times across the province. (again this provides a force multiplier for the citizens they would not have otherwise).
Where one day they are patrolling lets say the city of Red Deer, then a couple days later they are the other end of the province assisting in a homicides or that drug trafficking by GP.

But those aren’t federal things. Murder’s going to be whoever has a major crimes or homicide unit, and that ain’t fed. Street level drug crime isn’t fed either. Stuff coming into the country? Sure. OMGs moving 50 kilos of coke from Montreal to Winnipeg? Potentially, though it could just as easily be a provincial drug unit in a joint force operation. Human trafficking? Usually street to mid level gang stuff; if it lands in a federal file it’ll be incidental to other, bigger stuff. Yes, contract policing has plenty of plainclothes investigative units, but that’s still provincial/municipal funding.

You appear to really not understand what you think you understand here. Nearly all of the criminal enforcement or investigation visible to the average person is not from the RCMP’s federal policing mandate, and patrol members aren’t being grabbed off the road to work those files. They might borrow some patrol members and a tactical team for a couple hours when executing a search warrant, but that’s about it, and that’s rare. From what I’ve seen several times now, the RCMP do their federal investigations very independently of their contract police work, whether provincial or municipal.

 

[FormerHorseGuard]

The guns are already paid for , the OPP use a version of the C8 without the scope and the full auto.

DND has the weapons in storage, they are already bought and paid for by the tax payer, time for the departments to wake up and share the stored assets. They already got retooled and demilitarized avgps, so moving assets around is nothing new. I am sure the weapons could be repurposed without too much trouble. Just my opinions. I cannot find the link I read, it has taken them from 2011 to get officers trained, after a shooting in 2005 in Alberta. 78% of the RCMP officers were trained as of May 2022. 6650 carbines issued to nearly 8500 front line officers. 18 000 plus officers, cannot be 10 000 officers all riding desks?

 

[brihard]

The guns are already paid for , the OPP use a version of the C8 without the scope and the full auto.

DND has the weapons in storage, they are already bought and paid for by the tax payer, time for the departments to wake up and share the stored assets. They already got retooled and demilitarized avgps, so moving assets around is nothing new. I am sure the weapons could be repurposed without too much trouble. Just my opinions. I cannot find the link I read, it has taken them from 2011 to get officers trained, after a shooting in 2005 in Alberta. 78% of the RCMP officers were trained as of May 2022. 6650 carbines issued to nearly 8500 front line officers. 18 000 plus officers, cannot be 10 000 officers all riding desks?

No, but those front line officers are mostly working shifts. I don’t know if any police service that issues carbines individually as personal weapons. You come back in from a shift, you turn in your C8, someone else takes it. I highly doubt that a shortage of C8s is a problem for them. I know of some services that are still much more limited in how many are available and how many members are trained, but the Mounties finally made it a priority and added it to their recruit training curriculum. Why would they need banged up old C7s when they have plenty of new C8s?

 

[Booter]

The guns are already paid for , the OPP use a version of the C8 without the scope and the full auto.

DND has the weapons in storage, they are already bought and paid for by the tax payer, time for the departments to wake up and share the stored assets. They already got retooled and demilitarized avgps, so moving assets around is nothing new. I am sure the weapons could be repurposed without too much trouble. Just my opinions. I cannot find the link I read, it has taken them from 2011 to get officers trained, after a shooting in 2005 in Alberta. 78% of the RCMP officers were trained as of May 2022. 6650 carbines issued to nearly 8500 front line officers. 18 000 plus officers, cannot be 10 000 officers all riding desks?

The 22% that aren’t trained are almost all not front line workers- they would be in jobs, middle ranking or higher who don’t use carbine in the course of their duties. There are a few front line police that have been unable to pass the user course and gave up trying and some that avoid the course entirely but they are the extreme minority.

There is a calculation for the detachment for how many rifles they have in their armoury- and the officers working have access to them. Not all rifles are in use at once- and not every cop is on duty 24 hours a day- so they are deployed in shifts and the rifles have a common zero at 100m.

You might think it odd that not every officer in the org is trained and qual’d on the rifle every year- and I believe you could make an argument why that should be the case. But it’s not the present scheme. And the people avoiding carbine dont really care what you and I think about it.

There isn’t a frontline unit in the prairies without access to the equipment, in numbers, or the training that I’m aware of. I cant speak of out east or the pacific region but I would expect it to be the same.