Active Shooter In NS. April 19 2020

[brihard]

I do agree it is a long shot idea and the inevitable pressure from Ottawa would likely kill it if ever proposed. The proposal itself could be useful to push Ottawa to increase RCMP manpower in the region.

What inevitable pressure from Ottawa? You think the federal government would fight to keep RCMP provincial policing contracts?

 

[Dana381]

What inevitable pressure from Ottawa? You think the federal government would fight to keep RCMP provincial policing contracts?

Yes because I was told ~75% of the RCMP are provincially tasked and the rest are federal police. I don't imagine that is split by persons as much as duties. Ottawa would still need to maintain a federal police presence. How big that would be I don't know but the current arrangement allows Ottawa to accomplish that on the provinces dime.

 

[brihard]

Yes because I was told ~75% of the RCMP are provincially tasked and the rest are federal police. I don't imagine that is split by persons as much as duties. Ottawa would still need to maintain a federal police presence. How big that would be I don't know but the current arrangement allows Ottawa to accomplish that on the provinces dime.

No it doesn’t, the province doesn’t pay for federal cops. The RCMP funds federal members 100%. It’s absolutely split by persons, or specifically by positions. It actually costs the feds money to subsidize provincial policing, and it’s been sounding more and more clear that the feds (and even RCMP executive) wouldn’t be fussed to start closing down provincial policing. I think contract policing by the RCMP is something the federal government inherited and is stuck with, not something they ever actually wanted.

 

[Booter]

With all the bad press the RCMP has gotten lately and how top heavy the organization appears there is a lot of justification here to be leveraged for a NS provincial force or a regional alternative.

Yes because I was told ~75% of the RCMP are provincially tasked and the rest are federal police. I don't imagine that is split by persons as much as duties. Ottawa would still need to maintain a federal police presence. How big that would be I don't know but the current arrangement allows Ottawa to accomplish that on the provinces dime.

That same bad press is across the country- you have jurisdictions with the money to do it that balk at the cost- or once they see the effect on their taxes it’s a reevaluation.

It might be a plan if the government extends some sort of offset- like the credits it gives for using the RCMP it gives for any police force.

On the concept of federal policing- that’s not accomplished on the provinces dime. They just live in Nova Scotia.

There’s really very little incentive for the federal government to want to keep the contract policing. 10 years ago it was a pride thing- now it’s mostly “yes of course here are the keys” if anyone wants to create their own agency. The association is what spearheads all the “keeprcmp” nonsense. But that’s asking a barber if you need a haircut

 

[Furniture]

PEI already offers services in both languages, I can't speak for NS. Yes a regional service would have to be bilingual but I don't see that as a huge stepping stone.

Police forces are already struggling to recruit, how many bilingual people do you imagine there are in the Maritimes that would be willing to become constables?

They would also likely need to be paid less than police in other regions due to the cost, so you're not going to pull in people from outside who have greater opportunity on a national scale.

 

[Dana381]

Police forces are already struggling to recruit, how many bilingual people do you imagine there are in the Maritimes that would be willing to become constables?

They would also likely need to be paid less than police in other regions due to the cost, so you're not going to pull in people from outside who have greater opportunity on a national scale.

Are all RCMP officers in NB bilingual? Or do they have bilingual service available? Service PEI offers bilingual service but that just means that someone on duty is bilingual not everyone needs to be.

I'm sure if a bilingual officer was hired they would be posted to where the need was greatest.

 

[Booter]

Are all RCMP officers in NB bilingual? Or do they have bilingual service available? Service PEI offers bilingual service but that just means that someone on duty is bilingual not everyone needs to be.

I'm sure if a bilingual officer was hired they would be posted to where the need was greatest.

About 75% of the total employees the RCMP have in New bruinswick are bilingual- as in passed their language exams etc.

The 25% that aren’t are usually there because they are married to a member/some family requirement, or have some expertise that caused them to be an exception. There are a few people outside that rule of thumb- but mostly- to be in “J” you must be bilingual. Especially anyone trying to transfer there. It is painful career wise to be an anglophone in J.

I just checked and their front facing uniformed officers answering calls are over 90% bilingual,

Your post actually touches on something important- “they’ll be posted where they are most needed”. No the won’t- it’s the same issue the RNC and the RCMP face- people won’t go places they don’t want to go. They’ll just go to a different organization.

No one has truly cracked the “go where you’re posted” nut for police work in Canada. The OPP are the closest I suppose.

Indigenous agencies or agencies like northern Quebec accept incredibly high turnover as they train people, get two years and they’re gone- RNC can’t get people to move to the rest of Newfoundland so it’s expansion halted. RCMP runs vacancies and high turnover.

Your bilingual folks might not be interested in the policing of J. Maybe they will be.

I’m all for regional and provincial forces.

 

[RangerRay]

Over 20 or so years ago, the RCMP was getting bad press in BC and the chattering classes were clambering for the RCMP to be deported forthwith. It just so happened, the contract was coming due and the BC Liberal government at the time took a very serious look at bringing back the BCPP. Provincial law enforcement agencies started to jockey to become the foundation for a new provincial force.

Lo and behold, the final report came out and said it would be too expensive. The only one that didn’t get the message was Doug McCallum in Surrey.

 

[lenaitch]

As a born & raised Maritimer, there is ZERO chance of the Maritimes forming its own Police Force.

The three Maritime Provinces can barely collaborate as it is. The entire region is incredibly tribal and there would be no cooperation.

The various municipalities would also all fight with each other, like they do in New Brunswick, which is how you end up with Saint John, Fredericton, Moncton all trying to have "International" airports even though they are all within driving distance of each other .

Then there is the Acadian issue in NB, that would open up an entire other can of worms that isn't needed at the moment.

I used to work with a member who patched over from the RCMP in New Brunswick - a north/central detachment as I recall. It seems the French/English spit is quite geographic, and he said many of their calls were fights between the two 'sides', particularly sporting events.

No one has truly cracked the “go where you’re posted” nut for police work in Canada. The OPP are the closest I suppose

Sort of, but I wouldn't know how to gauge "closest". Staffing in the north has always been an issue, but they simply transferred people. As well, members were more adventurous and took an opportunity to get a northern posting 'under their belt'. Some went up, loved and never came down. There was also the transfer-as-punishment option. There probably hasn't been an 'administrative transfer' in 30 years. A few members still do voluntarily take a northern posting, but vast majority are recruits, so many small detachments seldom have anyone over five years service.

Pretty much every detachment in northern Ontario has a fixed posting duration in the MofU. There is also a quite substantial 'northern allowance' which helps somewhat, but many still do their duration then head south. Demographics have changed. Few want to live in a small community; spouses often now have careers instead of jobs.

Over 20 or so years ago, the RCMP was getting bad press in BC and the chattering classes were clambering for the RCMP to be deported forthwith. It just so happened, the contract was coming due and the BC Liberal government at the time took a very serious look at bringing back the BCPP. Provincial law enforcement agencies started to jockey to become the foundation for a new provincial force.

Lo and behold, the final report came out and said it would be too expensive. The only one that didn’t get the message was Doug McCallum in Surrey.

It all seems easy until somebody realizes that they would have to staff and support the Telegraph Creeks of the province.

 

[Halifax Tar]

No one has truly cracked the “go where you’re posted” nut for police work in Canada. The OPP are the closest I suppose.

That way of human resources only works if the employee lacks options and there is a glut of available workers.

Thats not case right now, and the CAF is really struggling with this as well.

 

[Booter]

That way of human resources only works if the employee lacks options and there is a glut of available workers.

Thats not case right now, and the CAF is really struggling with this as well.

Financial incentives are really the only thing we have. And the TB doesn’t really support that…sooooo vacancy.

There are two detachments in my district that are about half an hour by the Birds Eye. One is the third busiest detachment- some summer nights it is the busiest in western Canada. The other has some weeks where the phone doesn’t ring,

The detachment where nothing happens- the officers make an average of 60 thousand more a year- and they receive nicer housing- same rent, and their isolated benefits are higher- by thousands of dollars,

Why would anyone but the true believer go to the Busier spot? Same line through staffing leaving, same “northern” box checked, more money, less work.

 

[brihard]

Financial incentives are really the only thing we have. And the TB doesn’t really support that…sooooo vacancy.

There are two detachments in my district that are about half an hour by the Birds Eye. One is the third busiest detachment- some summer nights it is the busiest in western Canada. The other has some weeks where the phone doesn’t ring,

The detachment where nothing happens- the officers make an average of 60 thousand more a year- and they receive nicer housing- same rent, and their isolated benefits are higher- by thousands of dollars,

Why would anyone but the true believer go to the Busier spot? Same line through staffing leaving, same “northern” box checked, more money, less work.

Thompson and a nearby community?

 

[Booter]

Thompson and a nearby community?

No not Thompson- but there would be an even bigger difference between Thompson and its close neighbours. They live on the housing market in Thompson- so they are probably the lowest paid officers in the district.

 

[mariomike]

The other has some weeks where the phone doesn’t ring,

There is one "beautiful place" in Toronto like that.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Financial incentives are really the only thing we have. And the TB doesn’t really support that…sooooo vacancy.

There are two detachments in my district that are about half an hour by the Birds Eye. One is the third busiest detachment- some summer nights it is the busiest in western Canada. The other has some weeks where the phone doesn’t ring,

The detachment where nothing happens- the officers make an average of 60 thousand more a year- and they receive nicer housing- same rent, and their isolated benefits are higher- by thousands of dollars,

Why would anyone but the true believer go to the Busier spot? Same line through staffing leaving, same “northern” box checked, more money, less work.

So I take it you are RCMP ? You guys get housing allowances or something like that ? I also heard your version IR was better too.

 

[OldSolduer]

Thompson and a nearby community?

Thompson - what a hot mess that place is.

 

[Booter]

So I take it you are RCMP ? You guys get housing allowances or something like that ? I also heard your version IR was better too.

our “IR” is similar- higher- but way WAY less used. Like it’s very infrequent in my observation. We d rather cancel the transfer and find someone else than pay the allowances. Officers are more likely to find it approved- I think all the examples I can think of are commissioned. But that’s anecdotal.

When we are in a place deemed a Limited Duration Post or an Isolated post it triggers allowances. When there is force housing (PMQs) you pay like a low rent fee based on a bunch of factors. Not every place gets the allowance and it changes amounts by a bunch of factors. For example you might get a northern living allowance of $200 bucks every two weeks- and pay $200 in rent on the force house every two weeks. Not every limited duration post has force housing though, like Thompson where you’re expected to live on the housing market. And not all rent is cheap- it’s expensive in some places, that’s usually housing supplied by the province or territory though- not federal.

I think that benefit is the same- like when the CF is posted to Yellowknife their benefits are the same? I could be wrong, it’s been a while since I’ve looked. Like a decade lol but I believe it’s a Treasury Board set amount by their metrics that all fed employees get.

This stuff isn’t my forte. I know to blame treasury board- they don’t like the term “incentivize” as if you’re getting something extra- it’s a compensation that is supposed to make things more equal (like groceries and gas), the problem with that is- all things being equal- most prefer to be somewhere else

I think brihard would have a way better understanding of these issues than I do.

 

[brihard]

This stuff isn’t my forte. I know to blame treasury board- they don’t like the term “incentivize” as if you’re getting something extra- it’s a compensation that is supposed to make things more equal (like groceries and gas), the problem with that is- all things being equal- most prefer to be somewhere else

I think brihard would have a way better understanding of these issues than I do.

CAF and I think all federal employees fall under the Isolated Post and a government Housing Directive. Presumably the RCMP too. I think it still has three portions; shelter cost differential, environmental allowance (that’s the environmental suck), and I think fuel and utilities or something like that. Basically calculated to reasonably match the excess costs of living in a government designated isolated post. It’s not a “here have extra money” bonus that you’re expected to pocket, other than I guess the environmental allowance portion. There’s also a once or twice a year vacation travel benefit to offset costs to the nearest major airport.

 

[Dana381]

About 75% of the total employees the RCMP have in New bruinswick are bilingual- as in passed their language exams etc.

The 25% that aren’t are usually there because they are married to a member/some family requirement, or have some expertise that caused them to be an exception. There are a few people outside that rule of thumb- but mostly- to be in “J” you must be bilingual. Especially anyone trying to transfer there. It is painful career wise to be an anglophone in J.

I just checked and their front facing uniformed officers answering calls are over 90% bilingual,

Your post actually touches on something important- “they’ll be posted where they are most needed”. No the won’t- it’s the same issue the RNC and the RCMP face- people won’t go places they don’t want to go. They’ll just go to a different organization.

No one has truly cracked the “go where you’re posted” nut for police work in Canada. The OPP are the closest I suppose.

Indigenous agencies or agencies like northern Quebec accept incredibly high turnover as they train people, get two years and they’re gone- RNC can’t get people to move to the rest of Newfoundland so it’s expansion halted. RCMP runs vacancies and high turnover.

Your bilingual folks might not be interested in the policing of J. Maybe they will be.

I’m all for regional and provincial forces.

20 odd years ago, shortly after I graduated HS a friend of a friend was heading to a remote posting as he just finished the RCMP academy. He explained that was normal and all recruits had to do a stint in a remote location first. He said a couple class mates were posted to more urban centers like Edmonton but they were either really lucky or had special skills maybe. It was a long time ago I forget.

Is that still the way or with member shortages is that gone now?

 

[Booter]

You really can go anywhere after depot
Now. The whole force is short. “Remote” is very subjective. I went to a two person spot out of depot and 6 months later I was the only member there and was detachment commander- my back up hours away by airplane

Other people go to a five person spot two hours from a provincial capital as their first post and feel it’s “remote” because it’s not Toronto.

people should expect to go to general duty, uniform, call- taking 911 policing, more than likely out west…and that’s about as far as you should try and figure out lol