UNAUTHORIZED DISPOSAL OF COMBAT UNIFORMS AND EQUIPMENT

[rvdklok]

Alot of the stuff is fake....like these pants listed here....
http://cgi.ebay.ca/CANADIAN-CADPAT-COMBAT-PANTS-NEW-XS-XXL_W0QQitemZ6614054005QQcategoryZ70987QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

If you read the description.....you'll find this.....

THESE ARE THE NEW CANADIAN CADPAT DIGITAL CAMO PATTERN COMBAT PANTS MADE BY THE SAME MANUFACTURER AS THE GOVERNMENT ISSUE ONES . THE SPECS HAVE BEEN CHANGED TO ALLOW FOR PUBLIC SALE!

Though I don't buy off e-bay.....NOR am I a soldier.....if I ever come across some of this CADPAT look-a-like stuff, I will most certainly buy it. I am an AVID hunter, and it's been proven that at farther distances, the CADPAT is MUCH better than ANY current hunting camoflauge pattern on the market. HOWEVER.....I'm definately not the type to add fake name tapes, hooks, bars, etc.....to try and make myself look like I'm something I'm not.
Actually.....my best friend is 1st PPCLI and he bought a regular back pack in a CADPAT type of pattern from the surplus store in Edmonton. No-one has a problem with the store selling it.....well.....if they do....as long as it is changed enough to get around copyright laws....there's nothing anyone can say or do about it.
I do disagree with people on e-bay selling an item and blatantly lying by saying it is genuine military issue. Those items should be removed as they are clearly stating intentions of breaking Canadian laws. If someone sells a bag of baby powder and sais it's cocaine.....they get charged with trafficking cocaine....should be the same with people saying they're selling genuine military issued CADPAT or other CF merchandise which is Illegal for sale.

 

[armyvern]

LOL! Still all it takes is one email to ebay questionong the legitimacy of an auction and they'll pull stuff; it doesn't even have to come from DND or the copyright holder/whatever.

Yep. That's all it takes just one e-mail to E-Bay Security. One e-mail for every single item.
I've done it...I can't keep up with it all. I've passed on to them "Cadpat" "Genuine CF Issue" and "Clothe the Soldier" as the keywords to watch for...more than once.

 

[Michael Dorosh]

Yep. That's all it takes just one e-mail to E-Bay Security. One e-mail for every single item.
I've done it...I can't keep up with it all. I've passed on to them "Cadpat" "Genuine CF Issue" and "Clothe the Soldier" as the keywords to watch for...more than once.

Why should they care?  They make a commission on every sale - they also sell millions of items every week. Every sale that gets stopped, ebay issues a refund to the lister, even if it was an illegal listing.  For my money, ebay is too restrictive as it is. 

No, this is the Army's problem, not ebay's.  Not the consumers who want the stuff.  The Army needs to sort it out, if it is really a concern to them.

 

[Cliff]

Personally, I hate to see anyone wearing any part of our uniform who hasn't 'earned' the right.  Legally, I don't think we can change the civi's, but we certainly can educate our members about the potential harm and damage that can be caused by their selling kit.

Just my 2 cents.

Excellent points.

It's not much different than wearing a police uniform= IMO. Or selling them. 

 

[AFman]

I have erased the location and info for safety reasons (thanks GUNNER2RCR and Hatchet Man for helping me realize the importance).

 

[ERIK2RCR]

Any bets on how fast the NCIU is at his front door??

 

[AFman]

No, the guy got them from a depository or some place like that. They are clean. At least I hope so. Thesse combats are considered surplus because of their combat effective status.

 

[painswessex]

I garentee you that the cadpat was obtained from some guy selling it to him because i can tell you that because of the certain properties of the cadpat the are destroyed and not sold to surplus stores. So they are ethier the civilian copies without the properties that make them a restricted item or they were obtain outside the military.

 

[AFman]

Well, all I can tell you is the combats there have the same properties as the real ones, flag patch, tilted pockets, insignia flap, and draw strings inside. The guy there has civvie copies and the real ones.

 

[ERIK2RCR]

I'm not so worried about the 15 year old wearing genuine cadpat around as much as your local Taliban suicide bomber who has read about your genuine cadpat items, including helmet covers, flags etc, getting one of his buddies here to mail him a set so he can walk right up to the closest checkpoint overseas and kill some of my buddies.

 

[The_Falcon]

Well, I hope I didn't receive illegal combats becuase I really respect soldiers, foreign and domestic. And I know some get mad at the idea of a 15 year old gaining a uniform that shouldn't be obtainable by civvies. Well, all I can tell you is the combats there have the same properties as the real ones, flag patch, tilted pockets, insignia flap, and draw strings inside. The guy there has civvie copies and the real ones.

You did recieve illegal combats, there are numerous threads on the topic.  If you want the stuff legally join the CF.

 

[AFman]

I am completely sorry. I guess I never realized how serious the topic was on the legality of CADPAT. I am terribly sorry.

 

[Trinity]

SAVE MORE  is the worst store....

Been called Ripmore's since I can remember....

Sort of like how  Honest Johns used to be called dishonest Johns in Pembroke

Do NOT go to Savemore...

go to Sgt Bikos.  Better kit, better prices, better selection, NEW equipment

15% discount for soldiers

and a giant dog....  that attacks Royals (or so I've been told) 


www.sgtbilkos.ca

 

[mrcpu]

I'm not so worried about the 15 year old wearing genuine cadpat around as much as your local Taliban suicide bomber who has read about your genuine cadpat items, including helmet covers, flags etc, getting one of his buddies here to mail him a set so he can walk right up to the closest checkpoint overseas and kill some of my buddies.

I've always felt that argument was a load of bunk:

- It's highly unlikely that TRAINED soldiers (and OUR soldiers are TRAINED!!!!) would let a lone unknown person just walk up without being challenged.

- In order to pull it off you would have to spend a ton of money on all the equipment including getting an M16/C7/AR15 to get close enough to not raise suspicion. You'd have to cut your hair and so on. It would be quite a lot off effort and for what?

- Since your going to be an unknown person walking up to a checkpoint anyways, wouldn't it just be easier to put on American BDU's (freely available) and walk up to a Canadian checkpoint? This would really mess things up as the CF member at the checkpoint wouldn't really know what your gear should look like to 100% accuracy and would figure you were a messenger or something from the American base camp

- Why bother? Recent history seems to indicate that agressors both in Afghanistan and Iraq don't have much of a problem posing as innocent civilians. In fact, thanks to the way woman are expected to dress in public, it would be simple for a male to dress up in womans cloths and approach a checkpoint with a bomb under his robe and his face covered. Heck, pick up a dead kid from the morgue on the way and carry the kid in your arms and wail.  (And if it's just too far fetched to expect a man there to dress as a woman, well I'm sure they can find a woman who will be a suicide bomber.)

- Why not get your brother to ship you a nice scope, dial it in and sit back a few hundred meters. Better chance you will live to fight again another day.

The point I'm trying to make is that trying to keep CADPATs out of the hands of the public for operational security reasons is a pretty lame excuse when there are 1001 other easier ways for the bad guy to do something nasty and any solider who relies strictly on the clothing of a stranger who is approaching from outside the gate needs to get on the first plane home and back to basic training BEFORE he or she gets someone else killed.

Just my $0.02 worth. But what do I know.

 

[davidk]

mrcpu, it's just not that simple. The insurgents in Afghanistan are smart enough to know that they have absolutely no chance of winning the fight against us simply by sniping at us. Dressing up as a Canadian soldier (or any allied soldier for that matter) is a frighteningly good way to get close to a convoy and kill people. There's no simple way to stop the flow of American uniforms out there, but just because they're around doesn't justify insurgents using CADPAT. It's all about operational security. Suicide bombers dressed in our uniforms may not be the most common threat around, but I'm sure that by removing even that small threat, buddy overseas will feel a lot more secure.

 

[AFman]

I was thinking the same thing, many people might not think of CADPAT as a big threat so they won't be prepared for it. That's why they (afghans) might go for the CADPAT mock up. Thats why I removed any and every contact information to the surplus store that kinda screwed me over. Afghans could easily come out of a cave, walk into a CF rest area and blow a bomb. But the same thing could go for the civvie CADPAT. the afghans could convert it into a look-a-like, and for that breif moment of their entrance, we wouldn't no a thing. It is a scary thought.

 

[mrcpu]

Would wearing just the pants or just the jacket be a criminal offence?

What urks me in some respect is the difference between Canada and the US on this matter.  I personally feel that wearing a pair of CADPAT pants or jacket (not going overboard and wearing a complete set) in public is analogous to wearing a Toronto Maple Leafs or Montreal Canadians OFFICIAL jersey in public. In fact, there are many who would, if they could get ahold of them, wear REAL team jerseys !

If I owned a real CADPAT jacket or pants I would wear them in public as a PROUD Canadian supporting my TEAM!!!  Why do we as Canadians want to punish people who want to wear our team colours and support our CF?

 

[Trinity]

1)  this is a buy sell thread?!?!?

2) I doubt any of us are qualified SME's on the tactics of and
current enemy usage of Cadpat.  Speculation here is poor at best
and best left up to a) another thread (that probably exists) and b)
to people with more experience.

 

[mrcpu]

I was thinking the same thing, many people might not think of CADPAT as a big threat so they won't be prepared for it. That's why they (afghans) might go for the CADPAT mock up. Thats why I removed any and every contact information to the surplus store that kinda screwed me over. Afghans could easily come out of a cave, walk into a CF rest area and blow a bomb. But the same thing could go for the civvie CADPAT. the afghans could convert it into a look-a-like, and for that breif moment of their entrance, we wouldn't no a thing. It is a scary thought.

I don't presume to follow every single story coming out of Iraq or Afghanistan, but so far I have yet to hear of this happening, even to the Americans.

Afman, you've brought up a good point.  To just wander up to the checkpoint would only require look-alikes and you'd have to do a DAMN good job, including speaking fluent english and having your ID to get past the checkpoint.

Since the checkpoints are presumeably a forward position to prevent exessive causualties from a suicide bomb, one can argue that the maximum damage a cadpat enabled bomber could do is perhaps 2 or 3 soldiers dead or wounded.  Quite frankly, this is a 1 trick pony since no one would be able to get away with it a second time so I disagree. I think it is more effective to sit back and shoot someone in the head then duck and cover and come back in a few days and repeat as required.

I just don't see CADPAT surplus being any serious risk to our TRAINED soliders in the field.  As mentioned in other posts, I'd be more concerned about people playing dress-up in Canada. 

 

[mrcpu]

1)  this is a buy sell thread?!?!?

2) I doubt any of us are qualified SME's on the tactics of and
current enemy usage of Cadpat.  Speculation here is poor at best
and best left up to a) another thread (that probably exists) and b)
to people with more experience.

SME eh? You must be a project manager!