U.S. Military Deserters in Canada Megathread
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dutchie
Guest
What a bunch of bone-heads.
If you don't want to fight in a war, choose an army other than the US to join, or don't join...become a barista at Starbucks and complain about the war full-time if that's your bag.
Idiots
If you don't want to fight in a war, choose an army other than the US to join, or don't join...become a barista at Starbucks and complain about the war full-time if that's your bag.
Idiots
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lfejoel25
Guest
just for purpose of conversation, cuz i noticed you guys felt pretty stongly about deserters, and i don't disagree. but what if the same person, were to refuse to go as a conscientious objector, because of any political disagreement, and serve the jail time, (like my dear old grandpa would say, "do it like a man").
same diff?
same diff?
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Maybe he joined the US Army for the gyms, and the food and the great accomodation, plus the camping, socialising and shooting M16s, never thinks it would be a two-way rifle range one day .Maybe his :crybaby: name was PTE Bengiman :'(? Or he watched Stripes :-[?
He would not be the first deserter of draft dodger to cross the 49th, nor will he be the last.
:boring: Personally he is better out of it, as he would be a hinderance in his unit, and is better off disgraced and sent packing.
Cheers,
Wes
Jarnhamar
Army.ca Myth
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I've always said I'd rather someone be a deserter and run away before reaching a combat zone than have then run away IN a combat zone when i depend on them.
A big issue with me is what happens to them FOR deserting. These guys are paid and trained to do a job and when crunch time comes, they refuse. When you refuse to do a job as a part of a contract you signed your held accountable. (Like the liberals canceling the helicopter contract andhaving to pay for it anyways)
The deserter should spend time in jail and perhaps some how be made to pay back the government for their training and education.
Imagine a fire fighter who refuses to go into a burning building or a police officer who refuses to arrest a violent criminal, after spending 3 years getting paid to do just that. Their not only putting their co-workers lives at risk but mine and yours as well.
A big issue with me is what happens to them FOR deserting. These guys are paid and trained to do a job and when crunch time comes, they refuse. When you refuse to do a job as a part of a contract you signed your held accountable. (Like the liberals canceling the helicopter contract andhaving to pay for it anyways)
The deserter should spend time in jail and perhaps some how be made to pay back the government for their training and education.
Imagine a fire fighter who refuses to go into a burning building or a police officer who refuses to arrest a violent criminal, after spending 3 years getting paid to do just that. Their not only putting their co-workers lives at risk but mine and yours as well.
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To play devils advocate, when the cop or firefighter says I can't/won't do this anymore he can quit. Done, collects severance and moves on.
Not so in any army I know of, thus making comparisons very difficult.
Not so in any army I know of, thus making comparisons very difficult.
Jarnhamar
Army.ca Myth
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Thats true however that is also assuming the police officer/fire fighter up until he refuses, HAS been doing his job putting himself in danger.
Soldiers train for war but until they actually go to war or on operations, their jobs (aside from training accidents) are not at the same threat level as cops/firemen. Soldiers are trained for years with the expectation that when called, they will go.
If a soldier was in constant danger i wouldn't fault them for one day having enough and hanging up their gloves. These guys are quiting before they are in real danger, before their legal contracts are up.
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They'll do their time, probably reduced if any and get a dishonourable. No loss, no foul. Unfortunately its the system. As for being a conscientious objector, does pan in an all volunteer army.
From my understanding one was a cook and therefore probably never leaving the base camp.
From my understanding one was a cook and therefore probably never leaving the base camp.
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Military personel can break their contract, but its a Lengthy process usually,
A police man can quit and get severance anytime but are not sent to combat zones.
When a Military Man or Woman runs away from their job, friends and country after they willfuly signed up for that job is somthing else, they should be punished and serve their time.
I am glade Canada didnt accept them, these people should know and realize what they are getting into before they sign that contract.
Even though Canada hasnt been in any real combate zones in many years other then afghanastan, I am still joining knowing full tilt that could change as quickly as i can flip a quarter. Do i want to go to War.. Of course not.... But will i go if called upon by my country..
of course, because its my duty to the country, my family and friends and if it wasnt me going it would be someone else i new and i couldnt live with myself knowing i dodged somthing my country needed me for.
thats just my take on it.
A police man can quit and get severance anytime but are not sent to combat zones.
When a Military Man or Woman runs away from their job, friends and country after they willfuly signed up for that job is somthing else, they should be punished and serve their time.
I am glade Canada didnt accept them, these people should know and realize what they are getting into before they sign that contract.
Even though Canada hasnt been in any real combate zones in many years other then afghanastan, I am still joining knowing full tilt that could change as quickly as i can flip a quarter. Do i want to go to War.. Of course not.... But will i go if called upon by my country..
of course, because its my duty to the country, my family and friends and if it wasnt me going it would be someone else i new and i couldnt live with myself knowing i dodged somthing my country needed me for.
thats just my take on it.
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The fact of the matter is that each and every one of them, as with us, volunteered to serve their respective countries.
Then, when asked to do the job that they said that they would do, failed to do it. This makes them not only a coward but not a man that could be trusted with the only thing that can never be taken from you, your word. Hand them over to the military authorities in the U.S. and wash our hands of the entire affair.
On a side note, during the Vietnam war there were more Canadians that crossed the border to support the war than there were American cowards that ran up and crossed into Canada.
As you can see I feel very strongly on this subject. There is little leeway or special dispensation to be evaluated for one that runs from your own country when they call on you.
Then, when asked to do the job that they said that they would do, failed to do it. This makes them not only a coward but not a man that could be trusted with the only thing that can never be taken from you, your word. Hand them over to the military authorities in the U.S. and wash our hands of the entire affair.
On a side note, during the Vietnam war there were more Canadians that crossed the border to support the war than there were American cowards that ran up and crossed into Canada.
As you can see I feel very strongly on this subject. There is little leeway or special dispensation to be evaluated for one that runs from your own country when they call on you.
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Mixing discussion of deserters and draft dodgers in the same topic will only confuse the issue.
But here I go.
If your democratic nation has to force a small group of the population to do something because the majority want it done why doesn't the government get a portion of the supposed majority to do the job themselves?
But here I go.
If your democratic nation has to force a small group of the population to do something because the majority want it done why doesn't the government get a portion of the supposed majority to do the job themselves?
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Robert008
Guest
I think these deserters are completely different than draft dodgers. Deserters signed a legal binding contract, accepted pay, were educated (college education) hello? did you think the army would want nothing back. You signed up for the army! there is a war?!
Deserting your army, is deserting your country that's called treason and it was punishable by death.
These guys deserve to be in jail, or worse.
http://www.brandonhughey.org/
Take a look at the letters section, it's ridiculous. Naturally no one disagree's with his oh so noble decision. He actually ask for a donation too?
What a fool, if i found him I would drag him to the border myself.
Deserting your army, is deserting your country that's called treason and it was punishable by death.
These guys deserve to be in jail, or worse.
http://www.brandonhughey.org/
Take a look at the letters section, it's ridiculous. Naturally no one disagree's with his oh so noble decision. He actually ask for a donation too?
What a fool, if i found him I would drag him to the border myself.
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Desertion and treason are two different things.
Mike Dorosh/Bobbitt, maybe you can clarify how the law in the CF works as far as desertion is concerned. Is there not separate charges for desertion and desertion in the face of the enemy?
S_Baker, I'll let you jump right in about the American side of Military Justice. I am interested to know what sort of charges you can face. It's been a long time since I received any lectures about Military Law.
Mike Dorosh/Bobbitt, maybe you can clarify how the law in the CF works as far as desertion is concerned. Is there not separate charges for desertion and desertion in the face of the enemy?
S_Baker, I'll let you jump right in about the American side of Military Justice. I am interested to know what sort of charges you can face. It's been a long time since I received any lectures about Military Law.
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Gunnerlove said:
When you join a volunteer armed forces, then bugger off as soon as its time to anti up what does that make you...? I just love people who enlist, then run screaming when they are called to fulfill their part of the agreement.
What does that have to do with the issue being discussed? Or are you only trying to cloud the issue?
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lfejoel25
Guest
Personally, the thing that bugs me is how they mask the desertion under the cloak of a political statement. To me I think it can actually be corageous to be able to stand up for your beleifs if you know there are concequences. Even though i don't feel like the Iraq situation, and the situation that these soldiers were in, qualify as requiring extreme measures in order to protest. But even if that is what they were trying to do, they should have accepted the repercussions of their actions.
Running to canada, was nothing more than an act of cowardess. If one of them had just accepted the jail time, even though i would have disagreed with them, i can at least respect somebody that will stand by their decisions. But as soon as they decided to run (just my opinion), that confirmed that there were no excuses, and the event was nothing but a bunch of deserters, trying to escape jail time.
I went on that websit and started to read the letters on there. they were mostly letters from people that said how they didn't beleive in the iraq war, and told him how corageous he was. But the thing that those people don't understand, they're basing their opinion of him on their opinion of the iraq war. Their opinion of him would probably be drastically different if he were to have been called to a war that they would have deemed "important". What if the united states were under an all out attack by some rogue nation (maybe one of bushes "axis of evil"), how would people feel if he refused service then?
Running to canada, was nothing more than an act of cowardess. If one of them had just accepted the jail time, even though i would have disagreed with them, i can at least respect somebody that will stand by their decisions. But as soon as they decided to run (just my opinion), that confirmed that there were no excuses, and the event was nothing but a bunch of deserters, trying to escape jail time.
I went on that websit and started to read the letters on there. they were mostly letters from people that said how they didn't beleive in the iraq war, and told him how corageous he was. But the thing that those people don't understand, they're basing their opinion of him on their opinion of the iraq war. Their opinion of him would probably be drastically different if he were to have been called to a war that they would have deemed "important". What if the united states were under an all out attack by some rogue nation (maybe one of bushes "axis of evil"), how would people feel if he refused service then?
Jarnhamar
Army.ca Myth
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I think thats a really good point.
People are leaving messages saying their proud of him and support him but if they supported the war they would be up in arms over it calling hima traitor. Thats pretty selfish thinking of them, do you have a link to the web page?
People are leaving messages saying their proud of him and support him but if they supported the war they would be up in arms over it calling hima traitor. Thats pretty selfish thinking of them, do you have a link to the web page?
- Reaction score
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A quote from Brandon's site: Brandon Huhgey is a former member of the U.S. Army who left his country rather than participate in an illegal act of aggression
PISS OFF!
The Brandon Story *GAG* In the summer of 2002, when I was 17, a military recruiter called my house to ask if I had thought about signing up for the military. He told me that if I was interested in going to college, I should stop by and talk to him. I gave it some thought and decided to sign up as it may have been the only way I could have afforded a college education. I signed up on the last day of July, 2002. My dad had to sign a form as well, as I was too young to enlist on my own accord.
I shipped out to basic training in the summer of 2003, just as the pre-emptive war against Iraq was taking place. It was hastily launched without the backing of the U.N. security council, and was declared a violation of the U.N. charter by Kofi Annan and Hans Blix. This act was justified by the Bush administration under the pretense of finding weapons of mass destruction and that Saddam Hussein had ties to terrorist organizations.
As time wore on, no weapons of mass destruction could be found, nor could any connection to terrorism. I graduated basic training in November, 2003 and arrived at Ft. Hood in December. I had asked my superiors at Ft. Hood on more than one occasion to grant me a discharge from the military, but they refused saying it was not my choice. I was never informed on any route I could take to leave the military, such as applying for conscientious objector status. I had promised myself that under no circumstances would I allow myself to become complicit in the illegal occupation of Iraq. No contract or enlistment oath can be used as an excuse to participate in acts of aggression or crimes against humanity.
According to the Nurenburg Tribunal, which was adopted by the U.N. as law, a soldier has the responsibility to refuse an order that he knows to be wrong. Based on this law, I refused my order to deploy to Iraq, and came to Canada with the help of Carl Rising-Moore, a Vietnam-era veteran and peace activist. I will not allow myself to face persecution by the U.S. government for following the higher international and moral law.
I am currently staying with a Quaker family in Ontario until I am able to get back on my feet.
I can guarantee that Quaker family has no ties to my soldiering one. Get out of my country, go directly to jail, do not pass go, do not collect $200
This guy really grates at me.
Cheers
PISS OFF!
The Brandon Story *GAG* In the summer of 2002, when I was 17, a military recruiter called my house to ask if I had thought about signing up for the military. He told me that if I was interested in going to college, I should stop by and talk to him. I gave it some thought and decided to sign up as it may have been the only way I could have afforded a college education. I signed up on the last day of July, 2002. My dad had to sign a form as well, as I was too young to enlist on my own accord.
I shipped out to basic training in the summer of 2003, just as the pre-emptive war against Iraq was taking place. It was hastily launched without the backing of the U.N. security council, and was declared a violation of the U.N. charter by Kofi Annan and Hans Blix. This act was justified by the Bush administration under the pretense of finding weapons of mass destruction and that Saddam Hussein had ties to terrorist organizations.
As time wore on, no weapons of mass destruction could be found, nor could any connection to terrorism. I graduated basic training in November, 2003 and arrived at Ft. Hood in December. I had asked my superiors at Ft. Hood on more than one occasion to grant me a discharge from the military, but they refused saying it was not my choice. I was never informed on any route I could take to leave the military, such as applying for conscientious objector status. I had promised myself that under no circumstances would I allow myself to become complicit in the illegal occupation of Iraq. No contract or enlistment oath can be used as an excuse to participate in acts of aggression or crimes against humanity.
According to the Nurenburg Tribunal, which was adopted by the U.N. as law, a soldier has the responsibility to refuse an order that he knows to be wrong. Based on this law, I refused my order to deploy to Iraq, and came to Canada with the help of Carl Rising-Moore, a Vietnam-era veteran and peace activist. I will not allow myself to face persecution by the U.S. government for following the higher international and moral law.
I am currently staying with a Quaker family in Ontario until I am able to get back on my feet.
I can guarantee that Quaker family has no ties to my soldiering one. Get out of my country, go directly to jail, do not pass go, do not collect $200
This guy really grates at me.
Cheers
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