The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)

[Good2Golf]

Mark, fair point about tanking...that said, such a package would be a pretty big 'telegraph.'

You have pointed out a significant thorn in the AD shield, that being the Kh-10X family of stealthy cruise missiles.  That will be a challenge to anyone's territorial airspace. :nod:

Regards
G2G

 

[MarkOttawa]

Good2Golf: A  Sept. 2014 telegram on possible escort fighters:

...
Jeff Davis, a spokesperson for NORAD, said that the Russian planes reportedly flew within about 55 nautical miles off Alaska and about 40 nautical miles off the Canadian coastline, CNN reported, adding that after flying in a loop they returned to Russia. Two Lockheed Martin F-22 Raptors intercepted two Ilyushin Il-78 refueling tankers [emphasis added], Mikoyan MiG-31 fighter jets and two Russian Rupolev Tu-95 long-range bombers. Two Canadian McDonnell Douglas CF-18 Hornet jets intercepted two Tu-95s in the Beaufort Sea, north of Alaska, CNN reported, citing the NORAD statement...
http://www.ibtimes.com/us-canada-intercept-6-russian-planes-2-bombers-over-their-air-defense-identification-zone-1692342

And Jan. 2015:

The Russian Air Force (Voyenno-Vozdushnye Sily - VVS [major changes since https://cgai3ds.wordpress.com/2015/08/05/mark-collins-russian-air-force-woes-unification-section/ ]) has conducted a series of 'long-range aviation patrols' with its Tupolev Tu-95 'Bear' strategic bombers over the Atlantic Ocean and Norwegian Sea in the west and the Barents Sea in the east, state media announced on 29 January.

The flights were conducted out of Engels Air Force Base in the Saratov region on the same day as the announcement, the TASS news agency reported. During the more than 19-hour missions, the Tu-95MS bombers were accompanied by Ilyushin Il-78 'Midas' tankers [emphasis added] and MiG-31 'Foxhound' interceptors...
http://www.janes.com/article/48418/russian-bombers-fly-more-long-range-patrols

Seems to me whatever fighter the RCAF ends up with must have a big AAM capability vs cruise missiles.  Stealthy the F-35 does not.  What to do if need to be stealthy for fear of escorts?

Mark
Ottawa

 

[PuckChaser]

How does the F-35 not have a anti-cruise missile capability again?

 

[MarkOttawa]

PuckChaser: If stealthy carries:

...
How many internal air-to-air missiles will the F-35 carry? Will the weapons bays be designed to carry six AAMRAAMs?

Four internal air-to-air missiles is the current requirement and capability. New, smaller developmental weapons and suspension and release equipment may increase the capacity in follow-on development, but no firm weapons and suspension and release equipment candidates to accomplish this have been identified to date...
http://www.defenceiq.com/air-forces-and-military-aircraft/articles/f-35-the-weapons/

Four.

Mark
Ottawa

 

[Kirkhill]

Another non-expert here weighing in but....

Doesn't internal carry result in less drag resulting in longer range - as well as the benefits of stealth?

All those 4th Gen fighters have "stuff" hanging out all over the place - including more fuel to compensate for that "stuff" but in consequence becoming more "stuff" that creates more drag.....

Meanwhile the F-35 shows up all nice and clean and shiny and peaceful looking.  Not a weapon in sight to frighten the horses.  Concealed carry?

 

[PuckChaser]

PuckChaser: If stealthy carries:

Four.

And it can carry external weapons on pylons if the threat requires it.

https://www.f35.com/news/detail/f-35c-conducts-first-external-weapons-release-with-not-one-but-four-500-pou

Look at all those pretty external pylons for missiles, I count space for 8.

 

[SupersonicMax]

It will, at some point, be able to carry 6 internally.  There is room for 2 AAM in space for the heavy weapons. 

 

[PuckChaser]

It will, at some point, be able to carry 6 internally.  There is room for 2 AAM in space for the heavy weapons.

Which is a pretty stellar missile truck with a few of them configured as stealthy as possible to spot and relay positions. That might not fit the anti-F35 narrative though, of being not good for NORAD.

 

[a_majoor]

Wings of Fury: But does the RCAF need a better aircraft than one the USN is going to fly until 2040 (plus?):

And can anyone really say what the role and effectiveness of the manned fighter--even the F-35--will be in the 2040s?

Mark
Ottawa

The answer is no, of course. People can't even predict what cars or cell phones will be like beyond 5 or 10 years, so expecting to understand what air combat will be like in 2040 is madness. About the only thing predictable will be that it takes place in the atmosphere.

The sensor and electronics packages on an F-35 at least allow you to go into the 2040's with a relatively "fresh" airframe and the ability to plug-n-play with whatever is operating at that time. There could be almost anything, from 747 sized carriers with giant laser weapons or railguns to insect sized drones. A maned aircraft might even be a huge advantage in an environment where there is a lot of ECM and cyberwarfare, since the pilot is still in the loop. Military Science Fiction writers can have fun with any number of scenarios, but making predictions?

Go for the option that has the most flexibility and growth options.

 

[CougarKing]

As expected, Canada pulls out:

Air Recognition

Canada reopens tender for new fighter aircraft

Canada has reopened the tender for a new fighter aircraft with a letter to the Defence Minister Harjit Sajjan. The country’s prime minister, Justin Trudeau, had decided to scrap the Lockheed Martin F-35 acquisition programme by withdrawing the country from the project, mainly due to the high costs, delays and lack of match between the characteristics of the platform and the Royal Canadian Air Force’s needs.

(...SNIPPED)

 

[Journeyman]

Air Recognition

The next paragraph continues..... Regarding the country’s needs, Justin Trudeau made clear that these are “North America’s defence”.

So much for basing procurements on a thorough Foreign Policy/Defence review.

 

[jmt18325]

So much for basing procurements on a thorough Foreign Policy/Defence review.

To perform the review, don't we first need to set goals?

 

[McG]

To perform the review, don't we first need to set goals?

So, you are saying we skipped at least two steps?

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

As expected, Canada pulls out:

Air Recognition

If that article is right, this is much bigger than just not getting F-35.

Canada has been a partner in the development of the F-35 almost right from the start and numerous Canadian companies are involved in it. To state that we won't buy any F-35 is one thing, to actually "withdraw the country from the project" is orders of magnitude above that if true.

If true, it will also Pi...s off a lot of Quebeckers all over again, for the third time since they gain power in Ottawa only a few weeks ago: First, there was the decision to refuse an increase of 12% of the length of Toronto Island airports landing strip, which will lead to the cancellation of the order of C-series planes by Porter Airline; then the delay , which looks like a cancellation, of the Davie contract for a temporary AOR replacement; and, now this which would deprive a large number of sub-contractors in the aero industry mostly located around Montreal of their ongoing contracts related to F-35's. 

 

[Kirkhill]

If that article is right, this is much bigger than just not getting F-35.

Canada has been a partner in the development of the F-35 almost right from the start and numerous Canadian companies are involved in it. To state that we won't buy any F-35 is one thing, to actually "withdraw the country from the project" is orders of magnitude above that if true.

If true, it will also Pi...s off a lot of Quebeckers all over again, for the third time since they gain power in Ottawa only a few weeks ago: First, there was the decision to refuse an increase of 12% of the length of Toronto Island airports landing strip, which will lead to the cancellation of the order of C-series planes by Porter Airline; then the delay , which looks like a cancellation, of the Davie contract for a temporary AOR replacement; and, now this which would deprive a large number of sub-contractors in the aero industry mostly located around Montreal of their ongoing contracts related to F-35's.

Dis-quoi?  L'Harper, il ne semble pas si mal a ce point, peut-etre?  Trop tard.  L'eau est en train de bouillir.  Tant pis.  >

Wait until Bombardier funding is rejected outright.....

 

[McG]

Wait until Bombardier funding is rejected outright.....

That can be appeased by investing in a Bombardier "anti-bomber" air superiorety fighter.  That is what we want to replace the CF18 with, right?

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

Ah! Chris. Nice to see that staid Scotsmen such as you still remember the Auld Alliance.

Nice French, my friend.

 

[Kirkhill]

Ah! Chris. Nice to see that staid Scotsmen such as you still remember the Auld Alliance.

Nice French, my friend.

It's always good to know another language.  If you want to insult someone you might as well be understood.....

 

[Edward Campbell]

That's why the English never worry about Scots insults ... no one can ever understand them.

 

[Kirkhill]

That's why the English never worry about Scots insults ... no one can ever understand them.

Ach, awa' wi' ye, ye glaikit scunner.  Hev ye gaun gyte, Wull?