The Promote / Demote thing

[HItorMiss]

On a personal level I don't really like the rating system, and as such I don't often use it. I have of course from time to time both negatives and positives. I think it being an open thing and thus people having to say or at least others knowing who votes you what way would perhaps make it less abused and perhaps the ratings would take on greater significance.

 

[George Wallace]

What a teaser line!  Now Im interested!

Would this also reveal the names of 'who demoted who' all the way back to the start of this thing?  I think you may have instigated a small pile of poo beneath several members...

Yes indeed.  They know who they are.  They have even conspired together in a few cases.  Hopefully this will put an end to their pettiness.  If not, they shan't be missed.  The novelty of their childish ways has worn rather thin and as everyone knows, this site doesn't tolerate trolling in any fashion.  I have no doubts right now that some of these malcontents are reading this as a threat to them personally and against the Rules of Conduct for this site and have already made a complaint or two to the site owner.  Sorry, but whining will not diminish the fact that actions they have taken are disrupting the ideals set for this site.

 

[Roy Harding]

On a personal level I don't really like the rating system, and as such I don't often use it. I have of course from time to time both negatives and positives. I think it being an open thing and thus people having to say or at least others knowing who votes you what way would perhaps make it less abused and perhaps the ratings would take on greater significance.

I've been staying away from this thread because, as I said way in the beginning, I simply don't care about the rating thing.  I don't believe in doing anything anonymously, and as far as I've been able, I never have.  (I've had some Social Work Officers mad at me because I insisted on putting my Name, Rank, and SN on "anonymous" surveys).

I have not used the rating system - I've neither "promoted" or "demoted" anyone on the board.  I generally ignore it. 

BUT - Mike Bobbitt wants this thing to work.  IFF there are people abusing the system, and because of the anonymous nature of the system, this is difficult to prove, I WILL BAN THEM.  PERIOD.  I will not play head games with them, I will not give them a chance - we're spending far to much time agonizing over this thing, WAY too much staff time is being spent trying to figure out who's abusing the system.

If you like the system, then use it for what it's intended - enjoy it, have fun with it - if you don't like the system, ignore it.  People "targetting" other people through this system are INTENTIONALLY skewing the results of the "karma" thing, and that is in DIRECT contravention of what Mr. Bobbitt wishes.  Take this to heart, abuse it and I find out about it - you're BANNED.  I won't even bother discussing it with the other mods.

Now can we get back to what this board is all about (intelligent discussion of all things military), and leave the childish manipulation of an ultimately meaningless "karma" gadget to those on OTHER boards?


Roy
Milnet.ca Staff

 

[Fishbone Jones]

As stated previous, Mods have no special power when it comes to promote/demote. There is no log as such, for that. What there is though, is a screen of who's online, that anyone can see. Enough mods are also online to know that when two malcontents are there, and the rest being guests or other users browsing topics not involved, and demotions come in, it's not hard to figure out who it is. If the same malcontents 'hover' in profile or other obscure thread while they PM or MSN, that's not criminal or disallowed, just very telling and suspicious. It's also extremely childish and petty. The kind of thing immature people, lacking the intestinal fortitude to confront their detractors do.

Obviously, by my rating, I put no stock whatsoever in the system. Mr Bobbitt wants it, it's his site and I work for him.....and you. He wants it to work, so I do too. I would rather someone PM and say they didn't like my comment and/or decision, so we could talk, correct & agree/ disagree it if need be. Rather than demote me because they're a being a vindictive, gutless POS. But that's their misguided prerogative. Just don't PM me with long, rambling, misguided, misconstrued, nonsensical & absurd tomes and manifestos. You'll get blocked by me, as some fitting this description already have.

I only hope that these petty playground infants are not in uniform, or at least not in a position where someone needs to depend on them.

The uniform doesn't look good, when there's no backbone to hold it up.

That's my two cents, posted from a Mod point of view, but as no more than a Milnet.ca poster and member.


Whooo Whhhooo, I  see I just evened out to +42/-42. Must mean I'm even ;D

 

[Jarnhamar]

Fair enough, the giant head wants this sucker to work so it shall work

That said, when someones attitude is 'I don't give a shit about my rating" I think that in itself points to the system not working. If no one takes it seriously why have it?

I don't like the system. I can't tell if it's a BTDT WO or Officer type giving me a finger wag or some kid who doesn't like me telling him airsofting isn't soldiering. Obviously I put more credit in the former.

The system as it is now is the same as writting 'so and so is a bag of smashed assholes' on the side of the bathroom stall at work.

I do think the system can be a good indicator of someones post credentials and how they fit in the community BUT in order for that to work there needs to be accountability.
How do you get accountability? Hold people accountable for their P/D by giving the user (not the public) a chance to see who it is and why.

 

[muskrat89]

Too bad there couldn't at least be, on someone's profile, how many +'s and -'s they have handed out. At least that way you could identify the chronic boosters and minusers.

 

[Journeyman]

Wow

That's about all I can say. 

When one of the top three/four people here that I absolutely respect for common sense postings.... is saying he'll unilaterally start banning people for abusing the clicking on "+" or "-", something is seriously wrong here.

There are some people, like Roy, whose posts I seek out because I respect their views. I don't look to see how many +'s and -'s they've accrued....because quite frankly, it doesn't matter -- at all. Others, I've either blocked or I skip their posts because I believe them to be....if I may use the technincal term....chowder-heads; a few +'s or -'s will never change that -- ever.

I figured the whole promote/demote was suitable Radio Chatter/Cadet Thread grist ... for those whose self-esteem is so tenuous that an anonymous negative rating on a public website is traumatic. But clearly this car is careening for a cliff. Hopefully Mike will scrap it before someone gets hurt.  :

 

[Fishbone Jones]

All these suggestions are good, but they'll make lots more work for the VOLUNTEER mods, and the site owner, but not the reguar user and sometimes voyeur.

 

[Shamrock]

That said, when someones attitude is 'I don't give a shit about my rating..." I think that in itself points to the system not working.

I've noticed those that care the least about their positive/negative ratings are often the ones most talking about it. 

Flawed Design, well said. +1

+1

I thought this was what the karma system sought to replace.

 

[Greymatters]

Fair enough, the giant head wants this sucker to work so it shall work
That said, when someones attitude is 'I don't give a crap about my rating" I think that in itself points to the system not working. If no one takes it seriously why have it?  I don't like the system. I can't tell if it's a BTDT WO or Officer type giving me a finger wag or some kid who doesn't like me telling him airsofting isn't soldiering. Obviously I put more credit in the former.  The system as it is now is the same as writting 'so and so is a bag of smashed assholes' on the side of the bathroom stall at work.  I do think the system can be a good indicator of someones post credentials and how they fit in the community BUT in order for that to work there needs to be accountability. How do you get accountability? Hold people accountable for their P/D by giving the user (not the public) a chance to see who it is and why. 

Accountability is the key here.  I tried the +/- system the first day I found about it. Two clicks.  Didnt like that.  Posted I didnt like it. And have since not used it.  Some people may get a sense of power out of anonymously clicking +/- on someone but I'd rather they understood why I or others disagreed with them.  How will that person learn if they arent confronted with the reason why you disapprove of what they're saying?  Vice versa, how will they know what they did right if you dont tell them.  How would I myself learn I am wrong or said something right if no one tells me? Likewise, abusing the system should not be tolerated either.

Mike wants to make this work, despite the many votes against it, fine, then it needs more work for it to operate properly.  I was surprised to hear that the Mods were unable to tell who was abusing the system, which is a serious drawback, because right now its only a game thats being played by secret admirers and detractors. 

(Edit - sorry for late edit, this crapped out on me yesterday due to gateway timeouts...)

 

[Shamrock]

For the most part, I'm a fairly conscientious promoter/demoter.  When someone says something I agree with, I don't waste bandwith by posting "+1" -- I'll click instead.  If someone says something that's patently out to lunch, I'll just drop a -1.  I have 'abused' the system in a manner of speaking.  I promoted someone without agreeing with the poster's content or intent -- I just wanted to see if the system had triple digits.

I'm also fairly conscientious of my karma score.  At present, I have -4.  I know how I earned those (and yes, I earned them based on my own scoring system).  While I won't obsess over my own score, I will try to keep it more positive than negative.  I suspect several people are similarly inclined.

I don't think the mods should be given karma scores.  That the mods are valuable to the site is undeniable.  Mods are in a position of authority and are likely to draw skewed results.; giving users the ability to promote or demote mods opens all sorts of opportunity for abuse of the system.  Positive karma can be abused by the toadies --individuals promoting to either curry a mod's favor or make a mod feel good about himself.  Negative karma can undergo like abuse from the opposite crowd; children doling out demotions because of an administrative action or locked thread.

edit to clarify my meaning and intent.

 

[Neill McKay]

For the most part, I'm a fairly conscientious promoter/demoter.  When someone says something I agree with, I don't waste bandwith with a +1.  If someone says something that's patently out to lunch, I'll just drop a -1.

I think some of the value of the system is lost by the lack of any consistent method among users to decide when to pull which trigger.  For example, I have only used the system in reaction to the way a user has expressed him- or herself.  I have tended to demote snotty posts, and promote intelligent ones, not necessarily with any reference to the user's particular opinion in the post.  If someone says something I disagree with then I would rather disagree openly and present my own differing opinion that just click on "-1".  After all, that's a big part of how discussion works, and this is a discussion forum.  Imagine sitting around at a party and every time someone says something you just write +1 on -1 on a sticky note and then put it on the speaker's forehead -- rather dull conversation, that would be!

I'm not necessarily saying that I've got the best method.  Rather, the fact that there are broadly differing methods leaves some room to wonder just what a rating means.

 

[Mike Bobbitt]

Folks,

Unfortunately the system was not robust enough to withstand some abuse... we gave it a fair shake but it's time to shut it down. Thanks to everyone who took the time to comment and to those who used the system as it was intended.


Cheers
Mike

 

[deedster]

Tried to make the best of it Mike, but I can't say I'm sad to see it go (and I'm not saying this because I am currently in a minus position  )

Thanks for everything that you do!