"So You Want To Be A Pilot" Merged Thread 2002 - 2018

[Strike]

Looks like there are two schools of thought on the "How much does prior flying experience matter" issue.  To people with experience: More than anything in the world. To people without experience: Its irrelevant.

A few pilots out here would disagree with your train of thought.  Given that you haven't gone through the whole training process it's a pretty big statement for you to make.  I dare say that this train of thought applies only to those who have yet to go through the military flying training system.  For those of us who have, specifically those who had prior experience, you will find people that are on either side of the fence.

I would almost compare it to someone in cadets thinking their experience would give them a leg up during basic.  Only to an extent - how to polish your boots, iron, do laundry and drill.  But these skills don't determine if you will pass or fail.  It just makes life 5% less stressful during the course.

 

[lstpierre]

A few pilots out here would disagree with your train of thought.  Given that you haven't gone through the whole training process it's a pretty big statement for you to make.  I dare say that this train of thought applies only to those who have yet to go through the military flying training system.

That's what I meant  :nod:. I meant that there are 2 schools of thought for the applicants who have not gone through the process (the ones like me looking over these forums and noting the general theme of the comments), just as you said Strike.

I'm not saying prior flight training will mean I have a greater chance of passing the course. Not at all in fact. I'm sure that all the qualified applicants on this forum would have just as great a chance to complete Transport Canada licensing requirements as anyone else including me, should they be willing to shell out the cash. So, its not *my* train of thought, I'm just reporting back what I had been told in my interview and by several recruiters recently, that's all.

 

[Strike]

I'm just reporting back what I had been told in my interview and by several recruiters recently, that's all.

And how many of them are pilots?  I'm not trying to knock recruiters, but they, like all of us here, are limited by their experiences.  I could tell you all about the Infantry trade based on what I've read and seen, but I certainly couldn't tell you if being a park ranger and beating Mantracker will help you out in your training.  I dare say having flying experience will help, but only if you have a few hundred hours under your belt and were using it in something other than a recreational manner.

Used to be that if you had 200 hrs you could by-pass Portage and PFT.  Not sure if that is still the case and there were debates as to the usefullness of this method to the candidate.  That could be why they want to see log books.

 

[Zoomie]

Applicants with a CPL skip PFT - which also eliminates them from being able to take the fast-tracked Phase 2 Grob program.

 

[lstpierre]

And how many of them are pilots?  I'm not trying to knock recruiters, but they, like all of us here, are limited by their experiences.  I could tell you all about the Infantry trade based on what I've read and seen, but I certainly couldn't tell you if being a park ranger and beating Mantracker will help you out in your training.  I dare say having flying experience will help, but only if you have a few hundred hours under your belt and were using it in something other than a recreational manner.

Used to be that if you had 200 hrs you could by-pass Portage and PFT.  Not sure if that is still the case and there were debates as to the usefullness of this method to the candidate.  That could be why they want to see log books.

Very fair points Strike. To clarify what I meant by "flying experience", I did mean some kind of CPL/ATPL and multi-IFR combo or some serious logbook hours...  Now before I get shot down again, I realize that this will STILL not guarantee passing all the phases  , but even if I thought it did I wouldn't argue it because the only opinions on the matter are those of the people making the decisions!

PS. The Mantracker reference cracked me up a bit.

 

[Strike]

PS. The Mantracker reference cracked me up a bit.

LOVE that show!

 

[Headintheclouds]

I was just wondering if anyone out there in internetland has been to Trenton for aircrew selection recently. If so, how many people were on the course. I've heard from my file manager that there are spots open, but I'm just wondering if I'm getting the truth.
Thanks

 

[VodkaBoy]

I've heard from my file manager that there are spots open, but I'm just wondering if I'm getting the truth.

I was there in May 09. On my course there were 12 people. I was told they typically run a course every week/couple of weeks when they need to run them.
If there are spots open then there are spots open, why would they tell you otherwise?

 

[VodkaBoy]

But these skills don't determine if you will pass or fail.

No, but they help. On average.

I'm not saying prior flight training will mean I have a greater chance of passing the course. Not at all in fact.

In FACT, it does. For PFT at least.

There was a study done to find out what the success rate was for people with previous flying experience(PFE) on CAPSS and PFT.

As most know CAPSS has been proven an effective selection tool, probably why it is still in use. It is especially effective when predicting the success rate on PFT.

The study found that there was a "strong relationship between previous pilot experience and CAPSS results. There was also a substantial relationship between the number of hours of PFE and student performance on the course."

And since CAPSS success = better PFT success, then PFE = better PFT success.

In fact, applicants with prior flying experience of 100 hours or more from the sample used in the study, had 94.8% success rate in PFT as opposed to the success rate of 88.7% for candidates with less than 100hrs.

For details see:
David E Woycheshin "Validation of the Canadian Automated Pilot Selection System (CAPSS) against primary flying training results". Canadian Journal of Behavioural Science. FindArticles.com. http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3717/is_200204/ai_n9065404/

and

http://ftp.rta.nato.int/public//PubFulltext/RTO/MP/RTO-MP-055///MP-055-19.pdf

 

[Dou You]

The study found that there was a "strong relationship between previous pilot experience and CAPSS results. There was also a substantial relationship between the number of hours of PFE and student performance on the course."

Does this include previous Fighter hours?  A person on my Aircrew Selection course had actually flown in Iran on the F-5E many years back (can't remember exactly how many) with a whole bunch of hours (again, I can't remember exactly how many). But if that's not previous experience I don't know what is haha. Unfortunately he did not pass, and he was crushed. On the complete other end of the spectrum, I passed with no experience whatsoever. It was too bad he had failed though because he was a great guy with a great attitude. However, he has done everything he has needed to be sent back to Trenton for a second try. But it just goes to show, even with those studies, CAPSS is simply unpredictable. So my highly knowledgeable conclusion to my lengthy study is:  If you have what it takes to be a Pilot, you'll pass everything whether you started with PFE or not. If you don't have what it takes...well it was worth the try  ;D. It's that simple...haha.

Cheers!

 

[SupersonicMax]

In FACT, it does. For PFT at least.

Dude, PFT and CAPPS are not courses yet. They are still part of the selection process. BFT and AFT are courses and this is where it really counts.  I had a CPL MIFR going onto BFT and while it did help me a little bit at the very beginning, it wasn't long before it became useless, just because of the different methods used in military flying.  During my civilian training, I never had to memorize 1 checklist.  On BFT, I "had" to memorize all of them.  Also, most of the syllabus is stuff that you would never do in the civilian world:  Low Level Nav, Aerobatics and Close Formation.  The aircraft you learn on is bigger, faster, more powerful and more complex than the average civilian trainer.  The procedures are much much much much much (you get the point?) more rigid than any civilian flight school will teach you.  There isn't much "thinking outside the box", at least in the initial stages.  You do what you are told, the way you are told. Period.  And good enough isn't normally good enough.  Once you are on CH9A in Moose Jaw, you may be somewhat qualified to talk about that kind of thing.  Until then, your advice is as good as a monkey's advice.

 

[Otis]

Woah, Zoomie ... back in your lane!

I will concede that you MAY be an expert on current courses for Pilots, and you have some experience with the current process and wait times, but PLEASE don't presume to tell people what the Recruiters do or how many of anything we're currently hiring unless you've been posted to a CFRC.

For the record, we do NOT "use Pilot as a lure" ... My colleagues and I have told countless numbers over the last two years that Pilot was closed. People who CHOSE to learn more about other trades did so, but in NO way did we ever encourage them to join as something to try to become a Pilot later.

Further to that, Pilot is currently open to DEO, ROTP AND CEOTP and there are quite a few more positions than 10.

:threat:

Otis

The pilot trade will never be closed officially.  Recruiters use the attraction of being a pilot as a lure to get people to take another trade.
So... Pilot (32U) is still open to DEO and ROTP only.  Just as a heads up though, I CT‘d to the Regs back in 1999 and have just passed the halfway point on my course at Moose Jaw, I waited 1.5 years for the course to begin.  Back in ‘99 they recruited something in the order of 150 pilots.  This year they will probably only recruit around 10 pilots.  Good luck

 

[lstpierre]

Well I just got my offer for DEO pilot! Accepted it before he was done asking me. My head is spinning! Starting St. Jean at the end of September.

 

[Beech Boy]

I got the call today too! I'll be headed to St Jean at the end of September in the DEO Pilot stream. I guess I'll see you there  lstpierre, congrats!

Also, for anyone that doesn't get an offer right away I should let you know that the recruiter told me the main board isn't sitting until the summer and that only a few spots were being awarded right away. So the door is likely still open even if you don't get the call right away.

I'm so excited right now, I handed my application in at the end of October 2007 and it is finally coming together!

Cheers.

 

[snyper21]

Congrats on your offers guys!
I got the call today and received the dates for my ASC (April 26). I like the part about the board not sitting until the summer... I would hate to find out that all DEO pilot positions were taken before I finish my ASC. 

 

[lstpierre]

Thanks Beech Boy! Congrats to you too. Look forward to meeting you and some other future cf pilots in late September!

Snyper21, did you get a conditional offer before ASC? I believe congratulations are in order for you too if so.

 

[JG29]

Well, i've been lurking on this thread for awhile, time to make a contribution.

Got my unofficial offer for DEO Pilot today, my MCC told me it will be made official next week. Words cannot explain how happy I am. I thought that this day might never come. I applied in November 2007, did ASC in November of 2008. Congrats everyone else who got their offers, and those still waiting: Stick with it, it's worth it in the end.

 

[snyper21]

Istpierre, no I did not get a conditional offer. Although I was told that I was a competitive applicant during my interview a few months ago. Hopefully that means I'll get an offer if I pass aircrew!

 

[seaware]

Time to break out my first post as well. Got my unofficial offer for DEO today so am pretty excited!. I applied back in 2007 as well so it's been a long process, but definitely worth it.

Looks like end of September St Jean so will see a few of you guys out there.... yah, pushups in the snow!

 

[Zoomie]

Woah, Zoomie ... back in your lane!

Did you see the date of that post that you just quoted?

When I wrote that post EIGHT years ago I knew many people working the CFRC scene - I was also still an ab-initio pilot and very much in the thick of it all.

Even to this day - the intent of my message still stands on its own.

Please put the pistols away, gentlemen fight with swords.