"So You Want To Be A Pilot" Merged Thread 2002 - 2018

[derekreid]

I talked with a recruiter online today, apparently still no intake numbers available for this year.

Hopefully we find out soon, I'd like to get the application process started.

The people applying as DEO, what degree are you applying with?

Chemistry here. At the recruiting centre, and possibly on this website somewhere, there is a chart that shows the preferred and acceptable degrees for each occupation.

 

[Otis]

Much to the shock of every Recruiter in the place ... some DEO Pilot positions just opened up for this year.

Good Luck all ...

 

[Beech Boy]

As a merit listed DEO pilot candidate that is very exciting news. Thanks for the information Otis!

 

[Otis]

For the first time in a LONG time, there is some intake for DEO Pilot.

There is also SOME intake for CEOTP Pilot.

Good Luck!

 

[snyper21]

Since there are new DEO pilot slots available, does that mean that aircrew selection will now open up for DEO candidates awaiting that course?

 

[VodkaBoy]

Much to the shock of every Recruiter in the place ... some DEO Pilot positions just opened up for this year.

Awesome
Will they be contacting only those accepted? Or will they also call the non-selected and tell them the situation?
How long does it typically take to notify the selected?

Cheers

 

[derekreid]

Apparently I spoke too soon...

I was in to the recruiting centre yesterday, apparently the number is 63, which is very hopeful although there will likely be a lot of strong applications (two years worth, really).

Since there are new DEO pilot slots available, does that mean that aircrew selection will now open up for DEO candidates awaiting that course?

I'm not an expert here, but I would imagine.

 

[bdave]

Chemistry here. At the recruiting centre, and possibly on this website somewhere, there is a chart that shows the preferred and acceptable degrees for each occupation.

Good stuff.  Thanks.

 

[Dou You]

I was in to the recruiting centre yesterday, apparently the number is 63, which is very hopeful although there will likely be a lot of strong applications (two years worth, really).

Is the intake of 63 just for DEO? Or is it the total intake which includes DEO, ROTP, and CEOTP? Just curious because 63 seems quite high for a trade that wasn't expected to have hardly DEO intake at all for a while. But then again I'm no expert either. And just out of curiosity does anyone know the number of ROTP Pilots selected this year?

 

[derekreid]

Is the intake of 63 just for DEO? Or is it the total intake which includes DEO, ROTP, and CEOTP? Just curious because 63 seems quite high for a trade that wasn't expected to have hardly DEO intake at all for a while. But then again I'm no expert either.

ROTP and DEO intakes are separate for sure. ROTP candidates would be 4 years behind in the pipeline, since they still need to do their degrees.

63 was much higher than most people expected. Good news for applicants nonetheless.

 

[VodkaBoy]

Seems pretty quiet on the forum about any DEO Pilot offers.
I wonder if they have started calling yet or if they are still putting things together.

 

[ChrisG]

According to the rumour mill applicants are being selected by HQ without reference to province  (re numbers) or local recommendation.    No word on whether some of those places are CEOPT or all DEO.  (Not sure why the military would  offer CEOPT when there must be a  easy sufficiency of DEO applicants after  two years.)  No word whther they will accept those who have already passed  ACS first or  any other criteria they may apply.  There was a rumour a little while ago that applicants who had done some pilot training might be preferred,  but again,  no official confirmation and that has certainly not been the practice in the past.

It's like playing a game where  there is one set of rules  we can all follow but there is a second set  and  no one will tell you what they are,  isn't it?

 

[westcoastboy]

Otis
Do you know how those DEO PILOT spots are being doled out, I'm a little confused how there could possibly be CEOPT spots available for PILOT. Is that not the exact same as DEO but a little less money and 12yrs to complete a degree.

 

[Otis]

Not a CLUE how they decide how many of what kind of spots are available ... all I get is the numbers saying we're looking for this many of this trade with that entry plan ...

 

[Griffon]

The number of slots for entry is determined by comparing the current manning level, forecasted attrition, and service requirements.  Right now the pilot occupation is very low compared to the PML (Preferred Manning Level) so right now they are taking in as many people in a year as the training system can handle.  There are more slots for DEO and CEOTP now than in previous years because it takes four years to send a candidate through officer training; therefore you can have a pilot at operational capability four years earlier if they don't need to be sent to RMC first.

Otis, CEOTP I personally find it difficult to compare DEO to CEOTP as they are quite different, but I do see the how you can make the comparison.  The military foots the bill for the degree in the case of CEOTP, and the unit is also responsible to provide some time to the member for studies, and to monitor degree progression.  A period of subsidised full time studies is also conservatively offered with mandatatory service incurred. 

They use CEOTP to supplement the intake numbers.  I think there would be a preference for the CF to intake DEO due to the mandate for a degreed officer corps, but there may be more difficulty in attracting such candidates, and so they use CEOTP to bump up yearly intake.

...at least that's how I think it all works...

 

[Otis]

Your reasoning is sound Griffon, but I have a couple of corrections for you:

You are correct that Pilot is low compared to the PML, but for the past few years we have declined to take DEO ... did the training system all-of-a-sudden "open up" or has there been a planning error by the C of C?

I don't know what your experience has been, but under CEOTP there is no guarantee of time for studies. Yes, most units will provide time when they are able, and yes, they are responsible to monitor and yes, there MAY BE a period of full time studies, but only the monitoring is ensured.

Lastly, your assumption that attracting DEO candidates is difficult is a complete error, and I have the stack of files for wanna-be pilots to prove it. (I in no way intend the term "wanna-be" to be derogatory, merely descriptive ... these people want to be pilots)

MY theory (and it's just that, I have no special info or insight) is that some people who want to become pilots, but may not be able to afford it after having completed their degrees, choose to attempt to join the CF in order to get the training. Combine that with the cut-backs in the civilian airlines and the number of EX-CF airline pilots and it becomes an attractive way of beefing up a resume.

My theory regarding the attractiveness of ROTP to the CF is this - "Obligatory service" ... yes, in theory, it saves the CF money when they don't have to pay for an education (DEO) ... however, the CF being a volunteer service (in that, it's not mandatory for Cdns to serve), a contract is just that, a contract, and we all know there are several ways to get out of a contract. I know LOTS of ex CF members who did not serve their entire 20+ years. Obligatory service incurred due to education however, THAT is much harder to get away from (the threat of having to pay back a LARGE scholarship and salary is pretty convincing)

SO, there you have it ... Pilot training with a guarantee of AT LEAST a few years service afterwards, or pilot training with a 'promise' of a few years service afterwards (and the conflict of a lot more money being offered civvie-side to entice the newly graduated)

Now - for all of the pilot applicants out there - again, I do not intend the term "wanna-be" to be derogatory, nor do I think that everyone is out to screw the system by getting their training and running away ... I am simply explaining HOW the CF MAY see ROTP as a preferred system to DEO when it comes to high-profile, high cost, lots-of-training, lots of civvie competition jobs. I'm sure that everyone feels that they are in it to serve their country and have every intention of completing at least their first contract, if not make the CF their career for life.

 

[Zoomie]

"wanna-be" is not derogatory - it is an apt description of baby CF pilots.

New Wing Grads (NWGs) are not really in a position to get a high paying job anymore than the 200hr wonders coming out of civi-flight school.  We can usually get at least two tours out of an aviator before the allure of the airlines drags them away.  In all reality, the grass isn't very green on the other side - we have a steady stream of re-enrollees coming back to the CF after the current downturn in the airline industry.  The 65% pay cut doesn't really make it too attractive either.

It's not a "promise" either - it's a restrictive release program that is instituted upon receipt of wings - 7 years owed.

 

[famus]

Sounds like ACS.

Anyway I'm somewhere on that list of applicants and I'll post if I hear anything.

 

[derekreid]

There was a rumour a little while ago that applicants who had done some pilot training might be preferred,  but again,  no official confirmation and that has certainly not been the practice in the past.

I can't imagine there's much truth in this. Folks who have their private license get no preferential treatment at ACS, so why in their application?

The way I see it, everyone that passes ACS should be square (agree with famus).

 

[lstpierre]

Speaking to a couple of recruiters and former CF pilot at work recently, it seems as though prior flight training experience is a pretty significant aspect of the rating of applications, especially for DEO and CEOTP. Makes perfect sense to me... They ask you about your work, education and other relevant assets in the interview. There is no logical reason why they would ignore someones PPL, CPL, or ATPL but give application points for their degree in underwater basket weaving. In fact, we spoke quite extensively about flight experience in the interview. Also, If they weren't interested in the flying applicants had done, why would they make licensed applicants bring their logbooks and licenses to the aircrew selection centre to be verified?

As for licensed applicants receiving no preferential treatment in ACS, this is true. However, if you have ever flown a plane you will see why. As mentioned in other threads, that machine is not like flying a real plane, even under IFR. Licensed applicants get no preferential treatment in aircrew selection because the simulator in no way tests your ability to fly an aircraft.

Anyway, I mean no disrespect to anyone, just saying what I have heard and hoping that all the flight training pays off. Looks like there are two schools of thought on the "How much does prior flying experience matter" issue. To people with experience: More than anything in the world. To people without experience: Its irrelevant.

All the best to all the hopefuls out there.