Russia's Mistral class LHDs: updates

[CougarKing]

How do we know those remaining Russian systems aren't bugged?  :blotto:

Defense News

French Offical: Russian Systems May Stay Aboard Mistrals if Egypt Buys
By Pierre Tran 5:13 p.m. EDT September 12, 2015
Coface Covers DCNS Payments; €57M Falls on France

PARIS — Moscow has signaled that Russian equipment fitted on the two Mistrals that were built for Russia could stay on board if Egypt, the leading prospective buyer, bought the helicopter carriers, a French official said.

“Russia could accept India and Egypt receiving the equipment,” with Cairo the prime candidate for buying the warships, the official said Sept. 7. Russian authorities “let it be known” in negotiations with French officials about the cancellation of the 2011 sale contract.

Paris and Moscow agreed Aug. 5 that France will repay €949.7 million (US $1.1 billion) to cancel the controversial naval deal. Some €56.7 million of that amount covered Russian telecommunications and missile control systems, and crew training.

(...SNIPPED)

 

[dimsum]

Election forces Ottawa to drop back room bid for French warships

Canada was actively pursuing – at the political level – the possible acquisition of the controversial French-built Mistral-class helicopter carriers, several defence, diplomatic and military industry sources have told The Canadian Press.

The effort has ground to halt, however, largely because of the federal election campaign – and it may slip away entirely because the French are now in a position to entertain bids from other countries for the 22,000-tonne ships, originally built for Russia.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/election-forces-ottawa-to-drop-back-room-bid-for-french-built-helicopter-ships/article26447129/?click=sf_globefb

 

[Underway]

Very interesting article.  So we shouldn't be surprised if one of these ships shows up in Davies in a year or two?  It would be amazing to see, but it will only happen if we get a majority Conservative gov't

 

[jmt18325]

Very interesting article.  So we shouldn't be surprised if one of these ships shows up in Davies in a year or two?  It would be amazing to see, but it will only happen if we get a majority Conservative gov't

Most if the actual purchasing by the Conservatives happened while in a minority.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

I suspect agreements might be in place pending the outcome, in fact the Liberals could also buy them to show hoe much they "care" about the military. The NDP might buy them if all armaments are stripped off and large red crosses are painted on the sides.

 

[ModlrMike]

Whoa, whoa, whoa. Wasn't it the Liberals that campaigned against this same class of ship when the Torries introduced the idea in 2008?

 

[MarkOttawa]

ModlrMike: Actually "hybrid" aircraft carriers were 2004 election issue:
http://boldcolors.net/liberals_mocked_conservatives_during_election_for_aircraft_carriers_promise/

Mark
Ottawa

 

[ModlrMike]

Still, doesn't concede them the high ground.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Whoa, whoa, whoa. Wasn't it the Liberals that campaigned against this same class of ship when the Torries introduced the idea in 2008?

They were also the ones that got the ball rolling on the F-35, politics is all about the moment.

 

[Staff Weenie]

Yes, but if we bought them......where would we get the helos to put on them? That would be another multi-billion dollar mess that would take so long to figure out that the ships would be paid-off before the first helo arrived from the factory.

 

[George Wallace]

Yes, but if we bought them......where would we get the helos to put on them? That would be another multi-billion dollar mess that would take so long to figure out that the ships would be paid-off before the first helo arrived from the factory.

???

If we got them, we would have the helos in all our existing Sqns.  They would be capable of accepting the Griffons and the Chinooks.  We would not need to await the arrival of SAR helios.

 

[Kirkhill]

???

If we got them, we would have the helos in all our existing Sqns.  They would be capable of accepting the Griffons and the Chinooks.  We would not need to await the arrival of SAR helios.

:goodpost:

 

[jollyjacktar]

The real question is, where would we get the money to crew and support them or crew for that matter?  :dunno:

 

[Kirkhill]

The real question is, where would we get the money to crew and support them or crew for that matter?  :dunno:

Here`s a thought.  Plan on reducing the size of the crews on the CSCs to Danish and Dutch levels and buy more electric motors.

And maybe have Davie supply the In Service Support plan - they have docks big enough, they are available and they are eager.

 

[Staff Weenie]

George, can our current Griffons and Chinooks operate from a ship without modifications? In a pinch, probably yes, but for any extended use, would there be problems? As an example, the Seahawk does have a variety of modifications from the base Blackhawk frame to allow it to operate off ships.

 

[jollyjacktar]

Here`s a thought.  Plan on reducing the size of the crews on the CSCs to Danish and Dutch levels and buy more electric motors.

And maybe have Davie supply the In Service Support plan - they have docks big enough, they are available and they are eager.

Ah there's the rub.  As has been pointed out elsewhere, we're not necessarily like our Merchant counterparts with crew requirements.  We have more folks on watch then they do as per our operational doctrine and where we go and what we could get ourselves into.  I don't know where the sweet spot is between the human/computer/machine interface where we can balance between numbers and capability.  I don't honestly believe we're there as yet.  Maybe with the idea of Deadnought 2050 like ships in that time frame of the next thing we might be there.

 

[dapaterson]

The real question is, where would we get the money to crew and support them or crew for that matter?  :dunno:

With the Navy taking a cue from the Army's support vehicle plan and seeing platforms self-divesting, there should be people and funds available.  AOPS will come with additional O&M funding, so it's not until JSS and CSC come online that there may be some additional pressures.

 

[Kirkhill]

Ah there's the rub.  As has been pointed out elsewhere, we're not necessarily like our Merchant counterparts with crew requirements.  We have more folks on watch then they do as per our operational doctrine and where we go and what we could get ourselves into.  I don't know where the sweet spot is between the human/computer/machine interface where we can balance between numbers and capability.  I don't honestly believe we're there as yet.  Maybe with the idea of Deadnought 2050 like ships in that time frame of the next thing we might be there.

JJT - Doctrine should not lead.  Doctrine must follow.

Otherwise you would be crewing ships as per HMS Victory, with its 25 sailors, 25 artisans, 150 marines and 600 gunners (numbers approximate as per memory).

The gunners, only being occasionally employed firing their guns in anger, in order to slow the rate of mutiny, were kept busy on drills, holy-stoning decks and hauling on lines on deck to help the top-men manage the sails.  How many top-men do you currently employ.

Or compare Jackie Fisher`s blackgangs to your engineering department.

Or compare all the old Coaling Stations, like the Falklands, to the need for AORs.

If you don`t have the bodies figure out how to get the job done without the bodies.

 

[jollyjacktar]

Yes, I see your point.  But advances in technology enabled manpower requirements and doctrine to evolve.  I don't know with present technology if there's enough of a increase on capability to allow for radical changes in manpower that would make a difference.

 

[Good2Golf]

The real question is, where would we get the money to crew and support them or crew for that matter?  :dunno:

Temporary re-allocation of some of the DDH and AOR folks who no longer have ships to sail?  ???