Russia's Mistral class LHDs: updates
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Oldgateboatdriver
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Unfortunately, for some unexplained reason, higher HQ don't like getting service papers from retired members. Go figure ;D
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Oldgateboatdriver said:
Nothing stopping you from submitting a paper to one of the Journals.
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I wasn't just saying you should, but since you seem to want to volunteer:
- write an unsolicited proposal
- form a company to support the Mistrals (it doesn't really need to actually be able to DO anything)
- subcontract MIL Davie AND Irving
- ensure you have suppliers from every corner and representative group of Canada (even if all they do is supply empty boxes)
- IMPORTANT: crystal ball the next election and ensure you get the right balance of ridings covered (hint: focus on ministerial ones)
- hire some grey beards that are well connected to host dinner parties for you
- hire some more grey beards to come up with good names; and make connections to the RCN of 50 years ago. Just to cover your bases, get some more grey beards for the Army and RCAF (heck, its supposed to be a JOINT ship anyway)
- get France, the UK, and the US to all say what a great idea it is; if you can swing Germany, Australia, Italy, Japan even better (why aren't you at the G7 already)
- and watch the $$$ flow in... oh wait a sec; could you please ensure the original reason we were doing this is met, even though I can't remember it now; wasn't it something about making the RCN the best navy in the world or something... it'll come to me I'm sure
There, now everybody wins; its BETTER when you're retired! :blotto:
- write an unsolicited proposal
- form a company to support the Mistrals (it doesn't really need to actually be able to DO anything)
- subcontract MIL Davie AND Irving
- ensure you have suppliers from every corner and representative group of Canada (even if all they do is supply empty boxes)
- IMPORTANT: crystal ball the next election and ensure you get the right balance of ridings covered (hint: focus on ministerial ones)
- hire some grey beards that are well connected to host dinner parties for you
- hire some more grey beards to come up with good names; and make connections to the RCN of 50 years ago. Just to cover your bases, get some more grey beards for the Army and RCAF (heck, its supposed to be a JOINT ship anyway)
- get France, the UK, and the US to all say what a great idea it is; if you can swing Germany, Australia, Italy, Japan even better (why aren't you at the G7 already)
- and watch the $$$ flow in... oh wait a sec; could you please ensure the original reason we were doing this is met, even though I can't remember it now; wasn't it something about making the RCN the best navy in the world or something... it'll come to me I'm sure
There, now everybody wins; its BETTER when you're retired! :blotto:
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The International Business Times reports that "Russia and France have finally agreed on the refund amount of the ill-fated Mistral helicopter landing ship deal that was canceled after Russia annexed Crimea in March 2014, according to a Kremlin aide cited by the Pro-Russian news website Sputnik. The fate of the two fully built ships has been uncertain over the last 16 months, with French President Francois Hollande reluctant to complete the $1.2 billion sale while Russian-backed rebels in Ukraine refused to abide by February’s Minsk II ceasefire agreement ... "The talks have been completed, everything is settled,” Vladimir Kozhin, President Vladimir Putin's aide on military-technical cooperation, said Thursday. “The schedule and the amount, which Paris will repay to Moscow [is decided]. I hope that an agreement on the termination of the contract will be signed very soon, and we will be able to announce the sum that France will pay us.”"
Colin Parkinson
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I suspect if we showed an interest in these ships we could offer up some very interesting fiscal arrangements, including a lease to buy, training arrangements, equipment purchases, etc
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This article, which is reproduced under the Fair Dealing provisions of the Copyright Act from the Financial Times, doesn't even mention Canada when it discusses how France might dispose of the the two Mistral class ships. India and Turkey are mentioned as possible markets:
http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/1cace11e-3c37-11e5-bbd1-b37bc06f590c.html#axzz3i7v48Axk
As the article notes, the jobs! Jobs!! JOBS!!! notion is strong in Turkey and India, too.
http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/1cace11e-3c37-11e5-bbd1-b37bc06f590c.html#axzz3i7v48Axk
For sale: two French warships with a negotiable price
Michael Stothard in Paris
August 6, 2015
For sale: two Mistral-class helicopter carriers worth €1.2bn. Good condition. Price negotiable.
France has extricated itself from one of its trickier diplomatic binds after it finally agreed to break a contract with Russia over the sale of two 21,000 tonne warships. Now it is facing a new dilemma: what to do with them?
The two vessels, which can each hold 600 troops and 16 attack helicopters but cost millions of euros a month to keep at port, had been sold to Russia, which even sent sailors to western France to train on them.
But tensions over the Ukraine crisis prompted France to halt delivery late last year under pressure from EU allies and Washington.
On Wednesday evening the two countries finally cancelled the contract, meaning the cash-strapped French government will have to take ownership of the ships and reimburse all of the money paid.
Jean-Yves Le Drian, the French defence minister, on Thursday said there was no cause for worry. There were “a number of countries” that had expressed an interest in buying the ships, he said.
But according to analysts, that may not be so simple. The government needs a buyer who will want two foreign-built warships at short notice and at a price not too far below the Russian one.
The problem is that of the 13 countries in the world that have stated a need for this grade of ship over the next decade, only India and Turkey want delivery in the next few years, according to an analysis by IHS Jane’s.
And in both countries there is a political lobby demanding that the ships be built locally, not imported. India, the world’s biggest importer of military ships, for example, this year said that all military ships would now be assembled locally.
Ben Moores, senior defence analyst at IHS Jane’s, said that the main challenge for France was not finding interested parties – as there are always countries willing to talk or negotiate – but price.
There is “not a chance”, he argued, that France would recoup the €1.2bn that Russia paid. “The problem they are going to face is they are going to have to reduce the price significantly,” he said.
Given its own budget pressures, France may come under pressure to sell relatively fast, since the cost of keeping each ship runs into the millions of euros each month. The French state had considered just sinking the vessels, according to newspaper reports last year.
The French government, which undertook the sale in 2011 under former president Nicolas Sarkozy when relations with Moscow were warmer, is already facing a minor political backlash over the cost of cancelling the contract.
Thierry Mariani, a deputy in parliament for the centre-right Republicans party, criticised the government’s decision, adding that the cost to the taxpayer could run as high as €1.6bn.
This takes into account the €1.2bn returned to Russia and what Mr Mariani says is €200 to €300m for what he called the “derussification” of the ship, meaning the removal of customised equipment that had been installed on board.
The removal job is set to be carried out by a Russian team in September, according to a Russian news agency. The French government said that it would inform parliament in due course about the exact cost.
Marine Le Pen, the head of the far-right National Front party, on Thursday said that the cancellation “seriously discredited France” in international business dealing and that “the taxpayer bleeds” as a result of the decision.
The Mistral-class ships, which are for the moment called Sevastopol and Vladivostok, may be a bitter pill to swallow. But the French government has otherwise been on a roll selling defence equipment this year.
It has signed €10bn worth of contracts with Egypt and Qatar for its Rafale fighter jet along with a €4bn agreement with India. Before that the 27-year-old jet had not won a single export order.
As the article notes, the jobs! Jobs!! JOBS!!! notion is strong in Turkey and India, too.
Colin Parkinson
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Interesting although I wonder if it's just the French whispering into peoples ears
http://www.france24.com/en/20150807-france-mistral-warship-egypt-saudi-arabia-repurchase
http://www.france24.com/en/20150807-france-mistral-warship-egypt-saudi-arabia-repurchase
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Colin Parkinson
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More like trying to sell them to anyone
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Moderators, perhaps it's about time we changed the title of the thread since they're not going to see service in Russia anymore? Perhaps "Two undelivered ex-Russian Mistrals for sale" might be a better title?
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Colin Parkinson
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hmmm more like a nice yacht
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S.M.A. said:
We were never going to purchase the Mistrals, way too much risk to the NSPS if we did.
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The boats that just won't go away. >
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