ROTP at Civilian University 2004 - 2018 [Merged]

[Meridian]

Treehugger:

Careful on your statements.

AT least at Concordia here in Montreal, there is NOT a flat fee for full time tuition, like there is in Ontario (at least Ottawa schools). You pay per credit here, whether its 3 or under or 4 or 5. There is no "discount" or free 5th class like there is in Ontario.

You are correct that at least for most Financial Aid offices, "Full time" is a minimum of 4 courses per semester. Anything less is part time.  Anything more than 5 is an overload and usually requires justification. (Depends on school).

When you say "courses other than those required", I am assuming you mean "Credits extra to the degree", rather than "free electives" correct?
TO be honest, under any program, I cant see how you didnt have enough free electives to be able to take a psych course. Every program ive seen out there in all disciplines ALWAYS has some sort of electives/general ed opportunities, at least in the public universities.  RMC itself forces this requirement through taking arts (when you are in science) or science (when youare in arts) courses.  It gives you a more well balanced degree.

If you are asking why the military will only pay for the 120 credits for your degree (or 90, 0r whatever the number is), it is because the military requires degreed officers, not degreed officers plus a bunch of credits.  IF anything, it shows poor planning on your own part to find courses that would fit your program and your interests... if you are at Civvy U, you already have the benefit of having chosen a school, program and specialization, and any minors.  RMC does not have the same variety at all.

Furthermore, the military will even pay for honours degrees, which in the case of most schools in Ontario means 4 years versus a 3 year undergrad (I know engineering and some other programs are different).

Id have to say they are being pretty giving here. If you wanna go take yoga lessons or something, are you asking the military to pay for that too?

 

[Adam_18]

  i am planning on attending university and becoming an officer in the army, what i was wondering was in the ROTP civilian university do they have any say on which university you go to and what you take or could i apply for say university of ontario criminology and still be within the ROTP i wasnt sure if their were any limitiations on that kind of thing. also with the ROTP while in civi university how often do you train are you like a reservist?
i plan to talk to my guidence counsoler and a recruiter so if anyone tells me to go talk to a recruiter i am, but i was just curious and wanted a little information before i went

thanks

 

[kincanucks]

You can go to any recognized Canadian university as long as you are studying a degree programme that is compatible to the officer occupation for which you are applying for and that information can be obtained from your local CFRC/D.  Basically you attend university for 8 months and then you train for the rest.  Therefore, go talk to a recruiter.

 

[Adam_18]

i plan to, so that means i could go and get a degree in criminology and be an officer in the infantry or armoured corps?

 

[kincanucks]

i plan to, so that means i could go and get a degree in criminology and be an officer in the infantry or armoured corps?

Yes you can.

 

[jwsteele]

Seeing your MOC and degree plus the fact that you're UTPNCM RMC is most likely what you would be offered.  I don't know entirely how they select between civi u and RMC but from my experience at IAP training, most of the OCdt's that were in that MOC and all of the UTPNCM's were going to RMC.  I am ROTP civi u and they let me stay because I already had one year in and didn't want to interfere with my education.  Civi u is good but I guarantee you might get a little bit bored.  Unless you have an incredibly demanding schedule with tough courses, be prepared to have alot of free time on your hands...like alot of free time.  I kind of wish I was at RMC because I know I wouldn't be bored all the time and they offer lots of cool stuff to do.  That's all I can really tell you.  If you really want civi u, push for it.  I haven't been in long but I've realized that being pushy is sometimes the only way to get things happening.

 

[Strike]

Another plus on the RMC side vs civie u (based on reports from friends in the same degree progam that went to Queens) is the class size.  Your biggest classes will be in first year and then will gradually peter down.  I was chem Eng and my degree related classes varied from 9-18 people.  I think the Mech Eng guys were the biggest with about 60-70.  Civil Eng was also a very small class.

It means that the profs actually know who you are and you get a better chance for one-on-one should you need it.  It also means better access to the people working on their masters/PhDs who will sometimes be helping out with your projects.

 

[Scants]

The easiest thing to do is check the "No" box on your application that asks if you are willing to attend RMC.  If your PSO gets a knot in her face because you don't want to go to RMC, so what. I would assume that RMC is "her" school and she would believe RMC to be the road to success. Hmmm... Gen Hillier, CDS (Memorial U); LGen Caron, CLS (U of Ottawa); VAdm Buck, VCDS (McGill); LGen Dumais, DCDS (McGill); VAdm MacLean, CMS (Dalhousie), etc, etc.  The best school in the world will be the one attended by the person you are talking to.  Pop quiz: what is the best trade in the CF? I know you said your trade and not mine (even though mine is the best).
About getting on her bad side; the 1st thing the BPSO explained to me in my interview is that his input only counted for a small part of the whole process and he could say "no" but the board could still accept me. He was quite aware of the fact that most people think the process stops or continues on his call but was quick to point out that was false.  Who would a board more closely listen to: a CO who has known you (directly or through his subordinates), or a person who talked to you for a couple of hours? I was surprised that he told me this straight off because the PSO that worked for him gave the impression that the sun set or rose on direct order from their office.
They have no problems leaving you in a civvie u: they don't have to pay for your posting, you are not eating the CF's food, you aren't wearing out their uniforms, etc.

Civi u is good but I guarantee you might get a little bit bored.   Unless you have an incredibly demanding schedule with tough courses, be prepared to have alot of free time on your hands...like alot of free time.  

If you are bored: study or go to the gym.

  I haven't been in long but I've realized that being pushy is sometimes the only way to get things happening.

A hint that could help during your career: "pushy" gets you hated and screwed around. The idea is to recognize a problem, bring it to the attention of those that can fix it, and most importantly provide a solution.

It means that the profs actually know who you are and you get a better chance for one-on-one should you need it.  

I have found the easiest way to get help from the prof is to go and ask for it. I have yet to be turned down for assistance by a prof. I have found that they enjoy when a student talks to them one-on-one. Too many of the students I have met are intimidated or nervous to talk to profs and they only hurt themselves. Once I had mentioned to a prof that I would be missing a few days because one of my boys was sick and he insisted I drop by and he would photocopy his notes for me.  When talking to profs (or higher ups for that matter) talk to them like you would anyone else, after all they are just people.
Good luck,
Scants

 

[chaos75]

As a follow on to what Scants said, he is right.  Your CO has the biggest part to play in your ranking with the selection board.  When applying for the program ask only for what you want, and do not put down choices, including schools, that you dont really want.  If you dont get what you want, wait till next year and improve your application.  However, if you are accepted and turn it down becasue it was not the right school, or was the third choice you really didnt want but put down anyways, dont be surprised if you do not get another offer.  If you make your reasons clear on your application, as to personal reasons/family issues why you want to attend Civ U, there is a good chance youll get it.  There is a alot more UT civ u than there is RMC UT's.  Anyways two cents from an ex RMC UT.

 

[Tracker 23A]

The easiest thing to do is check the "No" box on your application that asks if you are willing to attend RMC.   If your PSO gets a knot in her face because you don't want to go to RMC, so what. I would assume that RMC is "her" school and she would believe RMC to be the road to success. Hmmm... Gen Hillier, CDS (Memorial U); LGen Caron, CLS (U of Ottawa); VAdm Buck, VCDS (McGill); LGen Dumais, DCDS (McGill); VAdm MacLean, CMS (Dalhousie), etc, etc.   The best school in the world will be the one attended by the person you are talking to.   Pop quiz: what is the best trade in the CF? I know you said your trade and not mine (even though mine is the best).
About getting on her bad side; the 1st thing the BPSO explained to me in my interview is that his input only counted for a small part of the whole process and he could say "no" but the board could still accept me. He was quite aware of the fact that most people think the process stops or continues on his call but was quick to point out that was false.   Who would a board more closely listen to: a CO who has known you (directly or through his subordinates), or a person who talked to you for a couple of hours? I was surprised that he told me this straight off because the PSO that worked for him gave the impression that the sun set or rose on direct order from their office.
They have no problems leaving you in a civvie u: they don't have to pay for your posting, you are not eating the CF's food, you aren't wearing out their uniforms, etc. If you are bored: study or go to the gym. A hint that could help during your career: "pushy" gets you hated and screwed around. The idea is to recognize a problem, bring it to the attention of those that can fix it, and most importantly provide a solution.I have found the easiest way to get help from the prof is to go and ask for it. I have yet to be turned down for assistance by a prof. I have found that they enjoy when a student talks to them one-on-one. Too many of the students I have met are intimidated or nervous to talk to profs and they only hurt themselves. Once I had mentioned to a prof that I would be missing a few days because one of my boys was sick and he insisted I drop by and he would photocopy his notes for me.   When talking to profs (or higher ups for that matter) talk to them like you would anyone else, after all they are just people.
Good luck,
Scants

Scants Rocks!

 

[SweetNavyJustice]

When you apply for UT you have to already have acceptance into a university.  If your acceptance is for a civi U and your picked up then that's where you're going to be going.  If you're taking classes at RMC, that that is likely where you will end up since you don't have admission into another school. 

As some of the other people have said, when you fill out your application it asks you where you want to go, and this info is based on where you are accepted to attend. 

As an aside, if you're doing a degree that isn't offered at RMC then you don't have any other option but to attend a civi U. 

I'm a recent UTP and am loving my time hanging out at civi U!

Good luck with the boards!

 

[Wookilar]

Been looking into maybe OT'ing into a different trade while I am still at RMC (still not sure what I want to be when I grow up). But, the only way I can see is the annual VOTP (or whatever that was called a few months back). Anyone know if you can apply for a trade NOT on the list or know anyone that has done this? Any help/info would be appreciated.

 

[Paish]

Well i don't know how otter does things but the way the VOR works on our end(I beileve) is that you put your application(Request what is needed from CoC) in through your CoC in the fall and do what they tell you. About trades not on the list, not too sure. The VOR process itself takes a couple of months and people are just starting to hear back from ottawa now.


:threat: Paish

 

[Wookilar]

Thanks Beaverlodge!

The list is the problem, though. ??? Whenever I ask someone about OT'ing to a trade not on it, they look at me like I have six heads. Most trades are open, but why not for VOR? I ask............ummmmmmm.....I'll get back to you on that...ummm...ya....look, there's some really good openings on the list.......blahblahblah. You get the picture.

Most of the VOR this year was all pseudo-techie types and (ick) Air Force. Not really my cup of tea, you know. I have an image to uphold  8)

 

[Paish]

Yeah i could pretty much see it going like this

"So i want to VOR to this trade here..etc etc"

"What? You want to VOR to infantry? Why excellent!"

"Tabernac"

 

[GINge!]

Generally, if the trade is not on the list, that means it is not open for OT in as they are overborne. Depending on your current trade, you may not be allowed to OT out if it is 'distressed' or 'red' (not 100% sure what term is used these days).

However, since you are at RMC, I'm going to guess the CF has not yet invested a lot of training time into your current MOC and as such it might be easier to transfer.

You should try asking your squad boss very nicely to contact the SOC at RMC, who can then contact the career manager of the trade you wish to apply for. The CM usually has the best / most current status of the trade. However, now is a very busy time for CM's and you might want to wait a few weeks or months.

 

[Wookilar]

Thanks GINge!

I've talked to the SOC in passing, but I want to keep it as official as possible, so I'll probably chat with my Sqn Com, AGAIN!

I'm in no rush, so I will wait a bit. I've got two years left here before I'm back to a "real" job. Last I could find out (through various nefarious, unofficial means) the trade I want is not overborne, but the one I am currently in seems to be a little desperate (they took me didn't they?).

 

[bbbb]

Isn't the VOR process a long, long process that can be hindered if you are 71U?

 

[GINge!]

If the board sits in May, and you apply in June, then yes, it can be at least a year.

I have seen a VOR take as little as 3 weeks however, if it is timed right.

 

[bbbb]

Doing ROTP civvy U is a good idea since you won't have a sqn comd or sqn NCO raining down your necks. You'll live like an officer at civvy U, everything won't be handed down to you like at RMC. Ah, RMC, what a good life it's been, no worries, no want.

Choose RMC if you want a superior military education to what you could get at civvy U. Remember, there is NO military training here at all. You wear the uniform, do inspections and the like and do your studies/athletics, that's all. The rest of your time is either free time or, free time!