ROTP at Civilian University 2004 - 2018 [Merged]

[kincanucks]

Here you go:

http://www.ombudsman.forces.gc.ca/complaints/main_e.asp

 

[s23256]

I'm fully aware that the military is hardly an example of fiscal responsibility.  Also, I'm certainly not trying to tell you that the workload at RMC is excessive, I graduated with a mechanical engineering degree and I still had more free time than I knew what to do with so anyone who tries that line on you is, in my opinion, full of it.  Eventually all I can tell you is why I believe the policy on out-of-stream courses at civvie U is in place.  In the end if you strongly disagree with the policy the only thing you can do is take kincanuks advice and take your complaint higher.

 

[big_johnson1]

Well my initial inquiry was more for general information to find out what the official policy is. I've found in the last year that what I was told at the recruiting centre when I was signing up and what the real regs are are not always one and the same. If I have to pay for a course that interests me myself, so be it, it isn't so important to me that I would take it upstairs. It can be quite frustrating however to find out that what you've been told by someone when you were recruited isn't true, especially when it has happened several times in the last year.

 

[tree hugger]

The fact remains that for you to take an additional course incurs an additional cost to the government while at RMC it does not.  

How?  Try to go in and pay for that "extra course".  It is impossible.

 

[s23256]

Sorry I should have been more clear there.  What I should have said is "If you were to take an additional course at civvie U it would incur an additional cost."

 

[tree hugger]

I understood you.  My post remains...

 

[s23256]

In that case perhaps I'm not quite sure what you are getting at.  Are you saying that it is not possible to take an additional course at your own expense?  I think we've allready established that current policy precludes civvie U candidates from taking out of stream courses on the military's dime and that if they disagree with the policy their only recourse seems to be through the ombudsman's office.

 

[tree hugger]

If you are attending a civilian university, full time is usually at least 4 courses per semester.  There is a flat rate for full time tuition.  Whether you are taking four or five courses in a semester, you are still full time.  Most programs do have an upper limit as to how many credit hours you can have per semester however, it is generally in the hands of the student to determine how many courses you will take.  It is impossible to be a full time student and then pay extra to be a part time student.
When you're a part-time student you do "pay by the course", however, that's not how it works for a full timer.
Don't believe me?  Try to pay for that fifth course.

 

[DVessey]

I'm not sure how OPME's work for everyone else(ie/ civi U ROTP, DEO), whether you HAVE to take the RMC courses by correspondence. If the course description is close enough to an OPME, you might have better luck taking it at your university.

 

[big_johnson1]

See at my university, I pay by the course, and it was the same way when I was at college a few years ago. I can't speak for all schools but that's two that go by the course. What if your program requires you to register in 5 courses per semester, and you have taken all the required courses and all the recommended courses that you can fit into your timetable, but you still have an empty slot? Are you required to pay for a course that is outside your area of study even though it's required to maintain your standing in the program?

 

[ACS_Tech]

Hopefully I can get some input from some RMC and civie U UTs.  I'm a prospective UT and I was wondering what the chances are of getting into a civie U vs. RMC.  I plan on applying for AERE or CELE and would like to take Aero Eng, Software Eng or Comp Sci.  I'd prefer not to do RMC because, although I understand UTs don't have to do all the same stuff as ROTP cadets, the courseload is still apparently high.  Aside from that, I feel that I'd be a more successful student at a civilian university. I don't have anything against RMC, mind you.

I'm not headstrong by any means, nor do I buy into the "ringknocker" mentality.  I want to be able to use as much of my time as possible for studying, if I go.  I also have some personal issues (sick wife) that I think might be a little harder to deal with at RMC.

I've casually brought it up with the PSO, but she gets all defensive and says "what's wrong with RMC?"  I don't want to get on her bad side!  If I was offered only RMC (I assume they only offer you one choice) I would take it, it just isn't my personal preference.  Are there any options or ways to better my chances for getting a civie U vs. RMC (for my MOC and degree choices)?  Any thoughts?

 

[Ersman]

I heard a while back that it was possible to goto university (such as UWO, Carlton or U of T) and do the 4 year degree and then go into the military for 4 years afterwards and have the military pay for University.
I'm not exactly sure if this is how it goes or if this is at all how it is, but I was just wondering if anyone could clarify how one would be able to do university without having to pay and then serving in the military?

 

[George Wallace]

Go to your School Guidance Councillor and ask for information on ROTP (Regular Officer Training Plan).  Then you can check at a Canadian Forces Recruiting Centre for information on ROTP.  They should be able to give you all the up to date information on CF University Education Programs that you need.

 

[MC]

The only people I've seen on ROTP that weren't going to RMC are those who have already begun their degree and those who study in fields not offered at Kingston. I'm not sure if its actually possible otherwise.

 

[Meridian]

It definitely is possible, its just not the military's preferred choice.

 

[Glorified Ape]

What about this: You only need 7 classes in your final year but you have to take 8/year to be considered full time (4 per semester). So you sign up for 8 classes (an extra elective over what's needed to graduate). The ROTP regs say you can't be part time, you have to be full time but from what I hear here, you can't take superfluous courses. That being said, it would cost more to take 3 classes as a part-timer than 4 classes as a full timer since they charge you more per course if you're part-time.

 

[Meridian]

Piper:

Thats because they keep the RMC kids together, generally. *Sigh*.

The military's preferred choice is to have you attend RMC, where  you get the total experience. ROTP Civy U and ROTP RMC is NOT the same, just as JROTC and Westpoint/Annapolis/etc are not the same experiences.  In fact, I tend to think JROTC is a better experience than ROTP Civy U.

That said, Civy U ROTP is an excellent option for those who want to stay home/get their degree from a university that has a better reputation for that program, etc.

From what I understand, was told by staff, and saw on courses, Civy U had significant enrollment, but is generally only filled by upper year students (You have to start as a freshman at RMC on the cadet wing) or by those who are taking degrees in programs not offered by RMC. im sure there are a few exceptions where RMC does not have the room, but the CF needs the projected intake numbers.

 

[Dirt Digger]

I don't know about 4 and 4 back-to-back, if that's your meaning.  I do know that you can do 4 years at a civvie U, apply for an Officer trade, then have the military pay for a trade-specific Post Grad degree down the line.  A yearly message comes out that lists all of the PGs and the trades that are eligible to apply for them.

 

[Meridian]

DD:

Is it usually only open to specialist trades? Basically my question is, do the pointy end folks get opportunities to get post-grads at all? Perhaps in War History, or Strategic Studies?

 

[George Wallace]

...Basically my question is, do the pointy end folks get opportunities to get post-grads at all? Perhaps in War History, or Strategic Studies?

Yes... They do...you'll have to visit the BPSO (and go through your C of C) to do this.  Many current officers have done so already.