Robocall et al issue - Fed 2011 election

[Kalatzi]

Thank you for your understanding.

I will do best to zipper lip.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

:

 

[Brad Sallows]

Sure, it would be the surprise of the world to find out that overzealous supporters of a political party might act without being under the expression direction or in accordance with the policies of the party.

 

[a_majoor]

It occurs to me, especially now that it appears Conservative voters also got misleading directions via Robocall, that the real issue is inaccurate information in the databases that were being used.

Based on some of the stuff I get from other government departments from time to time, that seems much more likely than any other explanation...

 

[Old Sweat]

It occurs to me, especially now that it appears Conservative voters also got misleading directions via Robocall, that the real issue is inaccurate information in the databases that were being used.

Based on some of the stuff I get from other government departments from time to time, that seems much more likely than any other explanation...

Based on my experience working as a volunteer at the riding level, the permanent voters' list is full of errors. I have also seen voters misdirected by the data mailed to them by Elections Canada. In some cases they were directed to a polling station 30 kilometres away instead of the correct one which was virtually around the corner.

 

[Rifleman62]

http://blogs.canoe.ca/lilleyspad/author/brian-lilley/

Author Archive
That “voter suppresion” ATIP from Elections Canada
Brian Lilley - February 29th, 2012

Claiming that anyone engaged in voter suppression is a serious charge and anyone caught doing it should face the legal penalties outlined in the Elections Act. But as we’ve been saying there is a lot of noise and limited evidence so far. I’d like to see more evidence if Canadians really are talking about the “largest case of electoral fraud in Canadian history” as at least one MP has put it.

I asked for and received a copy of the same access to information records that Glen McGregor and Stephen Maher of Post Media said they used for their original story. I’m sure they have other documents but this is the ATIP they used. You can read the thing below in full, it was a request for email traffic from Elections Canada on voting day.

While it does mention calls from people claiming to be from Elections Canada and misdirecting people in Guelph it doesn’t really shed much light on the subject that was not already known.

Beyond this post-mortem comment from Elections Canada:

“There was no conduct reported that would bring into question the integrity of the election result overall or the result in a particular riding. Although misconduct was reported in several ridings, there is no complaint that it affected the final result. There is some speculation in the media that the dirty tricks may have affected the result in some close contests.”

The document goes on to describe misleading calls in Guelph and the fact that some activity is legal but seen as “unfair” by candidates.

What is fascinating is that the “robocall” issue takes up perhaps three pages of 190 pages released.

Most of the rest of the document consists of reports of returning officers, deputy returning officers and other elections workers not showing up, not bringing the ballots, or leaving early. On page 158 you can read about the RCMP being called in to find a DRO and poll clerk in Fond-du-Lac. The polling station was reported closed, the Mounties found them out having dinner and ordered them back to work.

From these pages it would appear more people had their voting attempt interrupted or put off by missing elections workers that “robocalls.”

We should all remember that it was McGregor that brought the world the “in and out” story which was the last big scandal of widespread election rigging which resulted in a plea deal over administrative charges and not the criminal conspiracy it was played as at time. Are we facing the same thing again? Time will tell.

Read the document yourself. http://www.scribd.com/doc/83175057/Elections-Canada-voter-suppression-ATIP-A-2011-00013-Response-Records

 

[Rifleman62]

Note that the Media Party, including Postmedia, accidentally, of course, left out this from all their media reporting:

“There was no conduct reported that would bring into question the integrity of the election result overall or the result in a particular riding. Although misconduct was reported in several ridings, there is no complaint that it affected the final result. There is some speculation in the media that the dirty tricks may have affected the result in some close contests.”

The opposition also left out this when manufacturing this "scandal".

 

[The Bread Guy]

Note that the Media Party, including Postmedia, accidentally, of course, left out this from all their media reporting:

“There was no conduct reported that would bring into question the integrity of the election result overall or the result in a particular riding. Although misconduct was reported in several ridings, there is no complaint that it affected the final result. There is some speculation in the media that the dirty tricks may have affected the result in some close contests.”

The opposition also left out this when manufacturing this "scandal".

Media cherrypicking ATIP material is FAR from news, folks, so we shouldn't be entirely surprised.  Perfect example:  800+ pages released, here's what pops up:
http://forums.milnet.ca/forums/threads/43759/post-380957.html

Also, has anyone seen the reporters who broke the story share the ATIP'ed material?  I stand to be corrected, but I haven't.  The competition had to share it - funny that, eh?

P.S.  Now you know why I'm always keen to ask, "why don't we see the WHOLE ATIP'ed document in media stories?"

 

[jollyjacktar]

They seek him here, they seek him there, Those Frenchies Liberals and Dippers seek him everywhere.  Is he in heaven, or is he in hell?  That dammed elusive Pimpernel Pierre Poutine.    (With apologies to all the Pimpernel fans out there.)

 

[Edward Campbell]

And here, reproduced under the Fair Dealing provisions of the Copyright Act from the Globe and Mail, is a much more likely explanation for the harassing phone calls:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/ottawa-notebook/pushing-back-on-robo-calls-tories-blame-liberals-for-electoral-mischief/article2355453/

Pushing back on robo-calls, Tories blame Liberals for electoral mischief

STEVEN CHASE

OTTAWA— Globe and Mail Update
Posted on Thursday, March 1, 2012


Stephen Harper’s Conservatives are fighting back in the wake of opposition allegations the Tories arranged for pre-election calls impersonating the Liberal Party to alienate Grit voters.

These accusations are different than the robo-call controversy in the riding of Guelph – now under investigation by Elections Canada – where voters were told to head to the wrong polling stations.

Liberal candidates and voters have been complaining in recent days that annoying calls were made in the run-up to the election by callers identifying themselves as working for the Liberals. Interim Leader Bob Rae has suggested it hurt the party’s political fortunes in the May 2 election.

But The Tories suggest it was the Liberal Party’s own get-out-the-vote operations that were making the calls and said the burden should be on Mr. Rae to prove it was otherwise.

The Liberals allege hundreds of voters received phone calls at inconvenient hours from people presenting themselves as being Liberal Party workers. In an apparent bid to alienate electors, these calls arrived at supper time, late at night or on the Sabbath for Jewish voters.

The Conservatives, however, suggest it was merely ham-fisted Liberal calls.

The Conservatives say public records show Liberal ridings across Canada spent more than $1-million on firms such as First Contact and Prime Contact that telephone electors to seek support and call people to gauge their support.

First Contact calls itself “the leading Canadian supplier of call centre services to Liberal candidates and office-holders in Canada.”

Long-time Liberal MP Joe Volpe, who was defeated in the closely fought Toronto riding of Eglinton-Lawrence last year, complained that electors were flooded with repetitive and harassing phone calls, falsely made in his campaign's name.

Call display showed the calls as originating in North Dakota, he said.

Conservative MP Dean Del Mastro, the parliamentary secretary to the Prime Minister, pointed out however that Mr. Volpe’s own riding spent money on voter-support call firms such as Prime Contact. It has offices in North Dakota.

“Joe Volpe paid over $25,000 to Prime Contact, a company with offices in North Dakota,” Mr. Del Mastro told the Commons.

A B.C. Liberal Party candidate has public acknowledged that calls they arranged to solicit voter support also showed up on call display as coming from the United States.

Former Liberal candidate Diane Janzen told The Chilliwack Times last April that this occurred because calls arranged with the aid of First Contact relied on a computer “based in the U.S., similar to other patented software for computers.”

The simplest explanation for calls that purport to be from the Liberal Party of Canada is that they are from the Liberal Party of Canada.

Re: robo-calls ~ if Prime Minister Harper is confident enough to make the bold "not guilty" assertions, in the House, that he has then I'm guessing that he knows who made the calls and there is no connection to the Conservative campaign and, possibly, not even to Conservative supporters; it may have been a disgruntled former worker who was making mischief just for spite.

 

[Scott]

Betcha can't convince Kalatzi though, ER. It's Harper and that name means guilty.

 

[Jed]

And here, reproduced under the Fair Dealing provisions of the Copyright Act from the Globe and Mail, is a much more likely explanation for the harassing phone calls:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/ottawa-notebook/pushing-back-on-robo-calls-tories-blame-liberals-for-electoral-mischief/article2355453/

The simplest explanation for calls that purport to be from the Liberal Party of Canada is that they are from the Liberal Party of Canada.

Re: robo-calls ~ if Prime Minister Harper is confident enough to make the bold "not guilty" assertions, in the House, that he has then I'm guessing that he knows who made the calls and there is no connection to the Conservative campaign and, possibly, not even to Conservative supporters; it may have been a disgruntled former worker who was making mischief just for spite.

Now that is an AHA! moment. With all the speculating that the Mainstream Media seems to be doing about this issue, none of them seem to speculate along this line of thought.

 

[ModlrMike]

The logic fail in this whole episode amazes me.

The Torries knew from the time the writ dropped that they would be under a microscope WRT their election practices given the outcome of the in-and-out issue. I can't for a moment believe they'd be so stupid as to officially organize a vote suppression operation.

The infrastructure and coordination required to pull this off would leave too big a footprint. Given that the media is continually looking for the slightest opportunity to lay scandal at the feet of the Torries, you'd have to be incredibly stupid to actually arrange something like this. If there's one thing we've learned about Mr Harper over the last 15 years... he's not stupid. The left's characterization of him notwithstanding.

 

[Remius]

He isn't.  Others might be though.

 

[GAP]

Betcha can't convince Kalatzi though, ER. It's Harper and that name means guilty.

Isn't that the one who wants to pick up t*&^s by the clean end?

 

[Scott]

He isn't.  Others might be though.

Yeah. I heard this put forth on the CBC today. By the same person who decries how much control Harper exerts over his own party. Some of these dolts don't stop talking long enough to remember what it is they have said.

Fail.

 

[The Bread Guy]

Betcha can't convince Kalatzi though, ER. It's Harper and that name means guilty.

Isn't that the one who wants to pick up t*&^s by the clean end?

Easy, now - let's stick with picking apart the message*, not the messenger.

* - And there still seems to be lots to pick apart in the messages we're getting from most MSM!

 

[GAP]

mea culpa  ..........................................

 

[Rifleman62]

Lets play, "What will the media say?", a game that easily predicts where the news report is going.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/TopStories/20120301/ontario-election-robocalls-120301/

The Conservatives have linked their Liberal rivals to an American speed-dialing company amid ongoing allegations of harassing phone calls during the 2011 election.

The accusation comes as an increasing number of reports emerge that Canadians received automated calls on election day from mysterious phone numbers, some with U.S. area codes.

In Parliament Thursday, Prime Minister Stephen Harper said Interim Liberal Leader Bob Rae should reveal his own party's alleged links to the scandal.

"We've done some checking," Harper said. "We've only found that, in fact, it was the Liberal party that did source its phone calls from the United States.

"I wonder if the reason the honourable leader of the Liberal party will not in fact show us his evidence is it will point in fact that it was the Liberal party that made these calls."

Harper's comments come nearly a week after a young Conservative campaign worker left his job amid accusations about the so-called robocalls scandal, in which allegedly misleading calls were made to voters on election day. The scandal centres on allegations that voters were told polling stations had moved.

But while the Conservatives have been on the defensive for the past week, Harper attacked the Liberals on Thursday and linked them to a U.S.-based automated calling service.

One calling firm, called First Contact, advertises itself on its website as: "the leading Canadian supplier of call centre services to Liberal candidates and office-holders in Canada."

The company's website also states that it has "since contacted over 8 million voters on behalf of more than 800 clients" across Canada.

First Contact President Mike O'Neill told The Canadian Press that his company was not involved in misleading or harassing calls.

In Parliament, the Conservatives repeated their claim that the voter suppression allegations are a "smear" campaign orchestrated by "sore losers" from the last election.

Read more: http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/TopStories/20120301/ontario-election-robocalls-120301/#ixzz1nuHJuEuI


Oh me, oh my, are the liebrals caught inside their own fish trap?

Another reason to ensure that this party suffers the ultimate fate of total annihilation from the electorate.

Abscam, Shawinigate, etc. How much more decisive evidence do Canadian need that this corrupt and morally bankrupt party needs to be dealt it's death blow?