Ribbons

[medicineman]

That's kind of how my retirement went  .  My DWD was a pretty short and intimate affair, which I liked.  My last day at work was one nobody really noticed because it was Graduation Parade for the QL5A CD course, so I snuck out after the celebrations, cleaned out my office and locker, managed to avoid getting tossed in the drink, went home and packed to leave.  My last day in uniform was after that weekend, cleared out of the BOR, said goodbye to some friends and colleagues, went home and packed the car and drove off the next day.

MM

 

[Old Sweat]

Way back in the bad, old days, 1RCHA in Germany circa 1969 was saying good bye to a bombardier ( actually he had remustered to cook, so he was a corporal) with a jillion years in the regiment, at least as far back as Korea. In fact his service was almost as long as his conduct sheet. He was one of the troops who never blew his own horn, but was there all the time no matter how crappy the conditions. Anyway, he came out of the shack to leave the regiment to go into the big, green machine back in the land of Hockey Night in Canada. To his surprise, he was met by the CO and the RSM who escorted him to the saluting base. The senior regular regiment in the Canadian Army was formed up on the square with its Colours on parade and rolled past this soldier leaving his home as he stood, saluting and bawling like a baby.

Surely we can thank somebody for his years of service without calling the NIS!

 

[jollyjacktar]

Has anyone considered that the individual might feel slighted because someone only had the forethought to go to Clothing Stores?

Be it a bar to the CD or a VC, they're both honours from the Crown and should be treated with respect.  Anything worth doing is worth doing properly.  I still argue that there is sufficient time and that a band-aid solution is neither required nor appropriate. 

I'm not against band-aid solutions, when necessary, but you better be pretty darn sure they're necessary before I sign on.  I'm not a big fan of cleaning up messes because others didn't do their jobs properly.

Pusser, if you don't watch it you'll slide from being a noun to an adjective. 

 

[Fishbone Jones]

At the JPSU in Gagetown you get your CD sent by mail. Many warm wonderful feelings from our injured guys there getting a medal presented by Canada post.

I've had my CD and a SSM delivered that way, by Canada Post. Took them into the Regiment, turned them over and had them presented properly.

 

[Pusser]

Pusser, if you don't watch it you'll slide from being a noun to an adjective.

I refuse to accept being the bad guy here just because I expect every possible avenue to do something properly be exhausted before resorting to a bandaid solution.  Sometimes folks are far too quick to run for the backdoor as soon as they hit one snag, rather than sort the problem and force the system to do its job.  The OP stated that the bar was due at the end of this month, but that the member was not retiring until later this summer.  To me, that is at least two, if not three months to sort this.  That is plenty of time to make a phone call to DH&R to try and expedite the issue.  In short, there is still plenty of time to do it right, so I would argue that immediately resorting to a half-a$$ed solution is not only unnecessary, it's unprofessional.  Furthermore, I would hope that any CWO who is dealing with this is keeping his/her CO in the loop and giving the CO a chance to make a phone call if necessary.  The desired result here is not an unreasonable request and the folks at DH&R want to do right by people.  If you ask, you just might get what you want, but in all fairness, if you want something out of the norm, you have to let people know.

In all my reading on leadership over the years, I have never found that "know your troops and promote their welfare," has a caveat that says, "regardless of any relevant law, policy or regulation."  Just about anything can be accomplished in this outfit.  It's a leader's job to figure out how to do it right (saves embarrassing courts martial in the long run).

 

[caocao]

I'm in the NCR so the dress of the day is 3B; the member in question wear ribbons everyday.  We are getting him the 3 rosette ribbons from the clothing store and starting 30 Apr (that's when he will be eligible according to his MPRR) i gave him the go ahead to start wearing it.  Once we get the "official box" we will present it in a formal setting and at that time he can get his medals court mounted.

Case closed...

 

[aesop081]

It's a leader's job to figure out how to do it right

"Managers do things right.

Leaders do the right thing"

 

[Pusser]

"Managers do things right.

Leaders do the right thing"

Doing it right and doing the right thing are not mutually exclusive.  Leaders should strive to do both.

 

[aesop081]

Doing it right and doing the right thing are not mutually exclusive.

Just like they are not always the same thing.

Leaders know the difference.

 

[dapaterson]

Honours, Awards and Recognition (HAR) are badly broken in the CF. 

Reflect on the raid on Dieppe: within a month and a half, LCol Merritt's VC for that action was gazetted (raid: 19 August; gazetting: 02 October).  Meanwhile, a CANFORGEN came out this week awarding CDS commendations for work in 2010.

So, highest honour for valour in the Commonwealth: 45 days.  For CDS recognition: 500+ days.  The modern CF is obscenely bureaucratic, with excess staff churn to little or no result at all levels.

 

[armyvern]

... Just about anything can be accomplished in this outfit.  It's a leader's job to figure out how to do it right (saves embarrassing courts martial in the long run).

Just to be clear then, you simply must be well aware that it is the member's Commanding Officer who signs off on the proforma noting that criteria has been met for the CD and authorizes it's issue; that is then sent to DHH for them to issue.

Ergo, when it does not arrive, that CO (and the member's RSM) are, despite your protestations otherwise, well aware as to whether or not member has met the criteria for the CD and bars to that CD. If it is not yet received, then they, certainly have the where-with-all to know their troops, promote their welfare, and go to clothing to get a ribbon to present. As the CO is the one who certified that criteria was met, I'd put that under the heading of "outstanding leadership".

 

[armyvern]

I'm in the NCR so the dress of the day is 3B; the member in question wear ribbons everyday.  We are getting him the 3 rosette ribbons from the clothing store and starting 30 Apr (that's when he will be eligible according to his MPRR) i gave him the go ahead to start wearing it.  Once we get the "official box" we will present it in a formal setting and at that time he can get his medals court mounted.

Case closed...

Good on you. 

 

[Pusser]

Just to be clear then, you simply must be well aware that it is the member's Commanding Officer who signs off on the proforma noting that criteria has been met for the CD and authorizes it's issue; that is then sent to DHH for them to issue.

Ergo, when it does not arrive, that CO (and the member's RSM) are, despite your protestations otherwise, well aware as to whether or not member has met the criteria for the CD and bars to that CD. If it is not yet received, then they, certainly have the where-with-all to know their troops, promote their welfare, and go to clothing to get a ribbon to present. As the CO is the one who certified that criteria was met, I'd put that under the heading of "outstanding leadership".

Alright, I'll concede that.  However, has the CO signed the pro forma?  There's no indication in the original post to indicate that.  The OP is simply going off the CD forecast on the member's MPRR.

For everyone who thinks I'm being a stick in the mud over this.  I'm not saying that I think we should knuckle under and accept bureaucratic delays.  I have never believed that and in fact, I have spent my career trying to sort through the BS and get things done in spite of the bureaucracy.  However, I've also had to clean up messes numerous times, because someone thought they were smarter than the system and tried to use the back door.  Frankly, there are some folks out there who have me to thank for not being in jail.  All I have been trying to get across is that there are things that have to be done to make things work.  The system can be expedited, but it sometimes requires positive control.  What disappoints me here is that too many folks simply leap to the apparently easy bandaid solution, without even trying to make sure it's done right.

I ask you this.  What would all you CSMs, Coxswains, RSMs do if some young private/AB decided to promote himself  and start wearing his single chevron on his own accord?  After all, it's an automatic promotion, there's no pay involved, and it's based strictly on time in and qualifications.  If he'd met all the criteria, but the unit had not gotten around to actually presenting the guy with his new chevron, would it be OK for him to start wearing it?

 

[Jarnhamar]

I ask you this.  What would all you CSMs, Coxswains, RSMs do if some young private/AB decided to promote himself  and start wearing his single chevron on his own accord?  After all, it's an automatic promotion, there's no pay involved, and it's based strictly on time in and qualifications.  If he'd met all the criteria, but the unit had not gotten around to actually presenting the guy with his new chevron, would it be OK for him to start wearing it?

Would many units even notice a no hook private giving himself a hook and wearing it?

 

[Pusser]

Would many units even notice a no hook private giving himself a hook and wearing it?

That's beside the point.  I have actually seen this happen.

 

[aesop081]

I have actually seen this happen.

I've not only seen it done, but i have done it myself.

Most units I have been a member of never made a formal presentation of the first hook. It is only in recent years that I have seen this become common.

 

[armyvern]

Alright, I'll concede that.  However, has the CO signed the pro forma?  There's no indication in the original post to indicate that.  The OP is simply going off the CD forecast on the member's MPRR.
...

Well, original poster seems to be the RSM; he wouldn't be much of one of he didn't have the COs ear now would he? 

(Nor much of one either if he hadn't been involved in the official process providing input as to "conduct sheet" etc)

Really, COs do know what's up with their RSMs who, in tune, keep the CO up on what's up with the troops. Just sayin'.

 

[Nfld Sapper]

I've not only seen it done, but i have done it myself.

Most units I have been a member of never made a formal presentation of the first hook. It is only in recent years that I have seen this become common.

Same in my unit, first hook is put up after MOD 7 of Section Member Course no formal presentation. Cpl's on up are formaly presented in a Sqn Parade...

 

[Pusser]

Well, original poster seems to be the RSM; he wouldn't be much of one of he didn't have the COs ear now would he? 

(Nor much of one either if he hadn't been involved in the official process providing input as to "conduct sheet" etc)

Really, COs do know what's up with their RSMs who, in tune, keep the CO up on what's up with the troops. Just sayin'.

Agreed, but he doesn't say that.  He said that HE told the member to simply put up the new ribbon based on the MPRR.  At no point has the OP said that he's even mentioned it to the CO. 

 

[Pusser]

I've not only seen it done, but i have done it myself.

Most units I have been a member of never made a formal presentation of the first hook. It is only in recent years that I have seen this become common.

You're avoiding the question.  The fact is, regardless of what has happened in the past, we now see this done as a parade.  In those units where this is normally done on parade, would an RSM or Coxswain be OK if the member simply chose to put it up on their own?