Ghost778 said:
And that statement is as valid today, as was when we used it 30+ years ago in similar situations. I daresay people said something very similar, if not the same, 200 years ago....it's how the stress is dealt with
Response's To "Ruxted On The Media's Handling Of Cpl. Boneca's Death"
- Thread starter ruxted
- Start date
And that statement is as valid today, as was when we used it 30+ years ago in similar situations. I daresay people said something very similar, if not the same, 200 years ago....it's how the stress is dealt with
- Reaction score
- 2,532
- Points
- 1,260
Ghost778 - you got it zackly right about reporters continuing until they get what they want. In future, don't be shy about calling his boss, and saying how well it went except for the little detail about when yer leaving. Maybe I'm naive, but maybe it'll help (although I've had worse mistakes ignored).
You can also see it in the line of questioning on the live interviews on Newsworld - "How did he seem to feel about the mission?", "What did he tell you about what he was seeing, compared to what he expected?" Once part of the herd goes one way, the rest of the herd follows.
You can also see it in the line of questioning on the live interviews on Newsworld - "How did he seem to feel about the mission?", "What did he tell you about what he was seeing, compared to what he expected?" Once part of the herd goes one way, the rest of the herd follows.
- Reaction score
- 4,846
- Points
- 1,060
GAP said:
I dare say further back than that.
"Odi et amo, quare id facere forasse requiris...Nescio, sed fieri sentio et excrucior"
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 110
I was on the treadmill this morning and saw this segment on CBC Wallyworld. My immediate reaction was one of despair- for our civilization as we know it. I know, melodramatic, but bear me out.
We have a situation here where a good man is killed in service of his country. Before he is even in the ground, there's the canned peacenik response- support our troops! bring them home! dishonour their sacrifice and declare it for naught! (OK, so I added the last part)
Look, Afghanistan is not a clean mission. We could do everything there perfectly and still not achieve the lasting legacy that we want. I've seen interesting posts over the past few days that ironically Iraq's mid term future is likely to be much rosier, since there's at least the potential for civilized society. Anyway, point is, reasonable people can argue about the Afghan mission from a strategic perspective.
What you can't argue about is the prospects for what would happen following a hasty Canadian withdrawal. Two scenarios here (too brief, but you get the idea):
1. We leave along with the rest of the west, and Afghanistan reverts to being the armpit of the world as it has been for the last few centuries. We end up needing to go back in a decade or two to break some things again.
2. We leave but the rest of NATO stays. Canada loses any pull with any future NATO decisions.
Where my dismay comes from is that a mere 2 generations ago, Canada stood firm against fascism. We lost more soldiers on the average day than we have lost for the entire Afghan mission (or likely will). And this lasted for over a year. Average canadians on the street understood that sometimes, you have to be willing to sacrifice in order to maintain your way of life. Understood that when being stared down by a bully you fight back- particularly when that bully is really a 98 pound weakling.
I'm not sure that Canadians understand that anymore. Sure, most of the people visiting this board do, but I think that you'd be hard pressed to get over 10% of the population that really understands this. And that's why I think that our society has a death wish- if it's not the islamofascists, it will be the next gang that understands that we've gotten too soft to stand up for ourselves with anything stronger than talk.
We have a situation here where a good man is killed in service of his country. Before he is even in the ground, there's the canned peacenik response- support our troops! bring them home! dishonour their sacrifice and declare it for naught! (OK, so I added the last part)
Look, Afghanistan is not a clean mission. We could do everything there perfectly and still not achieve the lasting legacy that we want. I've seen interesting posts over the past few days that ironically Iraq's mid term future is likely to be much rosier, since there's at least the potential for civilized society. Anyway, point is, reasonable people can argue about the Afghan mission from a strategic perspective.
What you can't argue about is the prospects for what would happen following a hasty Canadian withdrawal. Two scenarios here (too brief, but you get the idea):
1. We leave along with the rest of the west, and Afghanistan reverts to being the armpit of the world as it has been for the last few centuries. We end up needing to go back in a decade or two to break some things again.
2. We leave but the rest of NATO stays. Canada loses any pull with any future NATO decisions.
Where my dismay comes from is that a mere 2 generations ago, Canada stood firm against fascism. We lost more soldiers on the average day than we have lost for the entire Afghan mission (or likely will). And this lasted for over a year. Average canadians on the street understood that sometimes, you have to be willing to sacrifice in order to maintain your way of life. Understood that when being stared down by a bully you fight back- particularly when that bully is really a 98 pound weakling.
I'm not sure that Canadians understand that anymore. Sure, most of the people visiting this board do, but I think that you'd be hard pressed to get over 10% of the population that really understands this. And that's why I think that our society has a death wish- if it's not the islamofascists, it will be the next gang that understands that we've gotten too soft to stand up for ourselves with anything stronger than talk.
- Reaction score
- 146
- Points
- 710
Echo9: Brilliant.
Mark
Ottawa
Mark
Ottawa
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 110
Speaking as a RegForce member scheduled for a tour to A'stan in August, I find the recent line of reporting on Cpl. Boneca's death in action to be a digusting attempt to sensationalize the story even further in a cynical pursuit for more ratings. This sort of speculation is not only bad reporting, but gross and ghoulish. As it has been stated before in this forum, the only person who can tell us how he felt is dead. But that is irrelevant, his feelings were his own, private, personnal, and should not be subject to public speculation by reporters after his passing for political gain, or for the media to generate more revenue.
Anything else is so disrespectful that I have no words for the uglyness of it.
The closest I can come is in french, we would say that this is 'sale', or dirty.
Anything else is so disrespectful that I have no words for the uglyness of it.
The closest I can come is in french, we would say that this is 'sale', or dirty.
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 210
yeah don't get me wrong , i dislike the media as the next guy, but i think in away its the military's fault for all this to, i worked with the yanks and the brits over there and we have the most media there then those to nations forsure, i had to kick troops out of lav's and but them in G wagons , so the media was protected. So yeah i hate when the media gets involed when one of our fine troops over there get killed, but alot of those things said were true , yes they were second, third and fouth hand knowledge but somewhat very true. Yes guys at the end of a tour want to go home no doubt! its hard to explain without getting in trouble but alot of things were wrong with this mission and not by the troops they worked there asses off.
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 360
I didn't trust reporters when I was serving. I still don't trust reporters now. If they don't have the story they want, they will find a way to get it in many circumstance's. When I talk to the press I want a witness and I want it very clear what is said from experience. In this case as has been mentioned I have heard nothing directly from the young Corporal. Just some distressed family and loved ones. We can feel their pain and understand it. Not like it, but understand it.
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 210
I would never presume to guess or interpret what words may have passed between Cpl Boneca and his loved ones here in Thunder Bay, or elsewhere. Nor would I presume to speculate what this remarkable young man may have been thinking or feeling through his final weeks and days. The closest I can come to the latter is my own feelings, in my last few weeks in Bosnia; that was nowhere near as dangerous a theatre as Afghanistan when I was there, yet I know that I was heartily sick of the place and wanted nothing more than to come home. I think it is only reasonable that Cpl Boneca, along with almost all of his comrades in arms currently deployed in Afghanistan would feel the same way at this late date in their deployment, only much more so, given the conditions in that poor, war-battered country.
That all said, none of it takes away the point I made a day or so ago on this forum...knowing Cpl Boneca as well as I do, I have no doubt whatsoever that he applied himself fully and well to the job he had to do, no matter what his feelings may have been. That, I believe, is the mark of a true professional--doing your job, and doing it well, when it may very well be the LAST thing you want to do. I spent enough time with Cpl Boneca to know that this was the type of person he was. None of what has appeared in the media will change, one iota, my respect, admiration and fondness for this courageous young soldier.
Dave Laderoute
LCol
CO LSSR 2001-2004
That all said, none of it takes away the point I made a day or so ago on this forum...knowing Cpl Boneca as well as I do, I have no doubt whatsoever that he applied himself fully and well to the job he had to do, no matter what his feelings may have been. That, I believe, is the mark of a true professional--doing your job, and doing it well, when it may very well be the LAST thing you want to do. I spent enough time with Cpl Boneca to know that this was the type of person he was. None of what has appeared in the media will change, one iota, my respect, admiration and fondness for this courageous young soldier.
Dave Laderoute
LCol
CO LSSR 2001-2004
- Reaction score
- 25
- Points
- 430
dglad
We all tend to agree with you. The real SHAME here is the Press and 'People' who are promoting a political agenda in a time of grief.
We all tend to agree with you. The real SHAME here is the Press and 'People' who are promoting a political agenda in a time of grief.
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 210
+2
dglad and all those who have been in country (whereever) and seen the elephant. No civilian, especially the media, will ever understand the weariness and frustration to "just have it over" towards the end of a tour. Part of that process is thinking and talking wild ass things.
But how do you communicate that to the uninitiated.?
It is mostly misconstrued, misinterpreted, and totally misunderstood. (and that has not changed to this day)
Within a month of my coming back from Viet Nam, I totally shut up about it for close to 30 years. The few times I tried to talk to people, the response was totally unsatisfactory, and I just gave up. It wasn't until my son was in the CF that I could relate to what he was going through, and if pride could be measured, I'd have a mountain.
Canadians ARE proud of you members who serve and protect, but all we hear is those who would tear it all down in the name of appeasement.
But how do you communicate that to the uninitiated.?
It is mostly misconstrued, misinterpreted, and totally misunderstood. (and that has not changed to this day)
Within a month of my coming back from Viet Nam, I totally shut up about it for close to 30 years. The few times I tried to talk to people, the response was totally unsatisfactory, and I just gave up. It wasn't until my son was in the CF that I could relate to what he was going through, and if pride could be measured, I'd have a mountain.
Canadians ARE proud of you members who serve and protect, but all we hear is those who would tear it all down in the name of appeasement.
Jarnhamar
Army.ca Myth
- Reaction score
- 5,653
- Points
- 1,160
Maybe we are bending over backwards a little too far to accomodate the media. I think the media and our relations with them is very important but honestly, kicking troops out of their own lav so a reporter can tag along?
Not cool.
I can only hope Canadians don't condone putting our troops in more danger than required in order to get a few snapshots and a story from an "embeded" reporter.
I did a 6 month tour in the Middle East living in a whole lot better conditions than anyone in Afghanistan could even dream of and if anyone would have heard my words in the last few calls that I made home they would have had the impression that when I got back to Canada I never wanted to even remember that I'd ever been in the M.E. much less think about ever going there again. Had I died there my family's impression of my tour would have been that I had absolutely detested it. "That's the last thing that he ever told us."
In fact I loved my 6 months over there and many times I've wanted to do it all over again. However during the last few weeks before leaving I developed a huge case of "gethomitus" and like many folks I became rather negative about the whole scene. It's probably a very natural reaction for anyone who has been thrown into a lifestyle where work,leisure and rest are all combined and compacted into the constraints of a military base that seems to consume one over time. Add the stress of combat and a generally unstable atmosphere that surrounds the whole area and anyone who is about to leave it all behind is likely to develop an attitude.
It's also a time when it's very easy to make mistakes or become complacent so watch yourself and your buddies.
In fact I loved my 6 months over there and many times I've wanted to do it all over again. However during the last few weeks before leaving I developed a huge case of "gethomitus" and like many folks I became rather negative about the whole scene. It's probably a very natural reaction for anyone who has been thrown into a lifestyle where work,leisure and rest are all combined and compacted into the constraints of a military base that seems to consume one over time. Add the stress of combat and a generally unstable atmosphere that surrounds the whole area and anyone who is about to leave it all behind is likely to develop an attitude.
It's also a time when it's very easy to make mistakes or become complacent so watch yourself and your buddies.
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 10
echo wrote:
On a hypothetical note (pre-apologies to those who detest 'what if' scenarios)
I've always felt that the current generation (my generation) takes a rather soft postion towards Islamo-Facisim, yet still maintains a strong anti-nazism postion, being very quick (and rightly so) to jump on anyone or anything conveying or preaching any sort of neo or psuedo nazi ideologies
I believe it would be interesting to substitute the present Islamo-facism with a comparable rise in western facism (ie. German/Italian 1930's ideologies). What would my generations response be?
On a hypothetical note (pre-apologies to those who detest 'what if' scenarios)
I've always felt that the current generation (my generation) takes a rather soft postion towards Islamo-Facisim, yet still maintains a strong anti-nazism postion, being very quick (and rightly so) to jump on anyone or anything conveying or preaching any sort of neo or psuedo nazi ideologies
I believe it would be interesting to substitute the present Islamo-facism with a comparable rise in western facism (ie. German/Italian 1930's ideologies). What would my generations response be?
- Reaction score
- 2,532
- Points
- 1,260
Latest approach of the media (according to news tease on CBC Radio here in T.Bay): "The family wants people to know they're not being censored by the military."
I understand that a military member is at the house to help deal with media and other people coming through. But I guess a family wanting privacy is censorship, right?
I understand that a military member is at the house to help deal with media and other people coming through. But I guess a family wanting privacy is censorship, right?
