Report: CF Hard Pressed to Recruit 8K

[enfield]

Tell me, Would you like to front the bill for all those people? exspecially if someone gets hurt, or if during the 3-4 day course they turn up medically unfit, and problems arise from it, lets think about saving the money (or increasing) the CF gets instead of throwing it into a burning pile of ****.

Have them show up with a doctors note, sign a waiver, and do a physical exam first off. And don't do anything too crazy with them.

Its not that crazy - its standard recruiting procedure for the British Army and Royal Marines.

The bill would be minimal. The military already owns space, and pays staff. Everyone shows up at a local base. Do a medical exam. Then spend a few days being yelled at, doing PT, basic drill, weapons familiarization, lectures, testing, etc. Better spend the money early, then have them drop out later. And, have the opportunity to ram through all the required testing immediatley.

I'll admit this is more of a means to ensure that quality material is recruited than increase basic quantity, but I think it could be an opportunity to check off a lot of boxes.

 

[Bert]

Enfield

The idea of a pre-BMQ processing is a valid idea.  However, looking back, only one person in my
BMQ platoon VR'd.  Likely would have been picked-up in pre-BMQ processing.  A good
portion of my platoon (30%) never made it past QL3.  There are several common reasons for it (medical issues
in BMQ and SQ, long wait for trades training, family issues) but none of it (except the one VR) in my opinion
would have been identified during a pre-BMQ process.

It might be worthwhile getting some statistics on 100 random applicants and following them from
the application process, thru BMQ, to QL3, and finally to their first posting.  I suspect we'd see a
number of problems in the bigger picture.

 

[PARAMEDIC]

If they amalgamated the security check into the DND and not shuffled it out to a third party serivce provider like CSIS: (thats if we consider CSIS not part of the DND)
it would probably hasten the rate at which potential recruits could become qualified soldiers hence fulfilling their quota/goal.
CSIS has enough on their plate as is or they just make it look that way..lol

1) If they are worried of potential terrorist or sleeper cells infiltrating the CDN army well, that possibility could have been fullfilled pre 9/11, so when i get ppl telling me that oh because your background is from a scheduled country and we need to verify that your not part of any terrorist organisations, its valid and ludacris at the same time.

2) Being a first generation Canadian doesnt count for crap no matter   how many years you live here. If rumor is correct then the stipulation of having to wait till you have lived in country for a period of 10yrs ..3 yrears as an immigrant and 7years as   Canadian citizen only verifies some peoples notion that they will always be considered a second class citizen because they were born in a country that has bad relations with Canada, but the Canadian government still allows citizens from that country to flow in because economy benefits from these intelectual and general labour imports.

I admit the government of my previous country aren't   speed demons when it comes to processing paperwork...not untill the gears have been greased.
so pls dont try to point out the obvious to me as to why my security is taking so long, if you can facilitate the process then im interested if not keep those obvious comments on the private messages. Im just venting and these 2 points is what gets me rilled up every time I think about my application and the Incredible amount of time its taking for it to come to a conclusion.

Then again I could be bitter about the process because I applied in 2002 and still currently waiting for my security check to be completed...
phew ...that was building up for a while ....starting to feel better already. :cheers:

In the mean time best of luck to all waiting for the call

cheers

 

[George Wallace]

PARAMEDIC

If you are concerned that CSIS has too much on their plate to do Security Clearances, who do you propose should do them?  The RCMP used to do them, but I imagine they too have too much on their plate to do it.  The MPs don't even have a plate, so it is way too much for them to do it.  I suppose we can have everyone just sign a Statutory Declaration that they are honestly and truly 100% Canadian Citizens with no Criminal Records, etc and then we can just open up those flood gates.....

 

[Zarathustra]

Check this guys. From the Senate Committee report on Defense. (http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/35115.0.html)

"The Perfect Candidate

According to the Canadian Forces, the system has been refined to the point that a
"perfect" candidate for the Regulars or Reserves can be processed in 30 days. That
recruit is someone who provides all the necessary documentation (identity,
citizenship, education and medical), has no medical issues, has a clean and easily
verifiable background, is physically fit and is applying for a military trade that has
vacancies both in the occupation and on the training courses required. Sadly,
Canadian Forces statistics show that only about three per cent of applicants fall
into this category".

 

[PARAMEDIC]

I suppose we can have everyone just sign a Statutory Declaration that they are honestly and truly 100% Canadian Citizens with no Criminal Records

...lol

hey George with the current perception of us Canadians, wouldnt that make it the Canadian thing to do..haahahaha ;D

If you are concerned that CSIS has too much on their plate to do Security Clearances, who do you propose should do them?  

but on a more serious note what I was eluding to, was that responsibility should lie in the hands of each department if you will. eg army/air force/navy
having a dedicated department for a specialized purpose, its never gonna happen but it does'nt hurt to dream
we are all to familiar with MPs taking their families and secretaries on unsantioned feild trips on our expense. Those resources could be better used to set up liasons with the applicants country of origin, to facilitate the recruiting process.
Iam by no means saying we should eliminate CSIS from the recruting process, in fact the brand new department would be in constant conversation with CSIS so as to prevent potential threats from gaining acess to sensitive information about our armed forces.
This would benefit "CLEAN" candidates who just had the misfortune to be born in a country that has bad relations with Canada or are on Canada's scheduled list from being treated as terrorist, guilty until proven innocent i guess.

but knowing my rant on here is not gonna change anything in   restructuring   command. I can sigh depressingly and keep doing what i need to do until i get the call. Having vented my frustration on the previous post I'm spent, so its back to my cubical till frustration builds up again and i have to come visit around here once more...lol ;D

 

[Acorn]

What's old is new, I guess. The CF used to have clearance background checks done by SIU. It was decided that CSIS should do it in order to centralize it, and to reduce the load on the Security Branch (there were probably other reasons). What doesn't appear to have been taken into account is the number of clearances that need to be processed, and CSIS hasn't seen an increase in manpower to deal with the backlog.

As for immigrants, you don't require 10 years in Canada to apply. The 10 years just makes it easier to do the background checks for certain clearance levels. If you want into the CF quickly, pick a trade that only requires an enhanced reliability check.

Acorn

 

[kincanucks]

Ahhh more misinformation:

As for immigrants, you don't require 10 years in Canada to apply. The 10 years just makes it easier to do the background checks for certain clearance levels.

Any applicant who is a Canadian citizen and has not resided in Canada for a continuous 10-year period immediately prior to application requires a (Pre-Enrolment) Security Clearance Pre-Assessment.  The only exception to this is you are out of the country for less than six months at a time.

If you want into the CF quickly, pick a trade that only requires an enhanced reliability check.

The minimum required for any trade in the CF is Level I Confidential.

 

[Springroll]

Ahhh more misinformation:


Any applicant who is a Canadian citizen and has not resided in Canada for a continuous 10-year period immediately prior to application requires a (Pre-Enrolment) Security Clearance Pre-Assessment.   The only exception to this is you are out of the country for less than six months at a time.

To add to that, if you have resided outside of the country for over 6 months due to a CF or government posting(spouse, parent etc), you are not required to do the Security Clearance Pre-Assessment.

 

[kincanucks]

To add to that, if you have resided outside of the country for over 6 months due to a CF or government posting(spouse, parent etc), you are not required to do the Security Clearance Pre-Assessment.

Yes thank you.

 

[Acorn]

Ahhh more misinformation:

As for immigrants, you don't require 10 years in Canada to apply. The 10 years just makes it easier to do the background checks for certain clearance levels.

Any applicant who is a Canadian citizen and has not resided in Canada for a continuous 10-year period immediately prior to application requires a (Pre-Enrolment) Security Clearance Pre-Assessment.   The only exception to this is you are out of the country for less than six months at a time.

Which means what? You don't have to have resided in Canada for 10 years in order to apply for the CF. If you have those 10 years, it is easier to do the clearance (pre-screening not required, no involvement of FAC).

Explain what is wrong with that statement (other than crappy grammar and wording).

If you want into the CF quickly, pick a trade that only requires an enhanced reliability check.

The minimum required for any trade in the CF is Level I Confidential.

I'll admit my knowledge of that may be dated. When did this come into effect?

Acorn

 

[kincanucks]

Sorry I just thought it might give the wrong impression by not including the pre-sec requirement.  The level I has been in effect for the Reg F for a few years now. Cheers.

 

[S McKee]

What's old is new, I guess. The CF used to have clearance background checks done by SIU. It was decided that CSIS should do it in order to centralize it, and to reduce the load on the Security Branch (there were probably other reasons). What doesn't appear to have been taken into account is the number of clearances that need to be processed, and CSIS hasn't seen an increase in manpower to deal with the backlog.


Acorn

The SIU stopped doing background security checks because the unit, for some nebulous reason, was disbanded, by then Provost Marshal Pat Samson, (it was rumored that she had a personal vendetta against the SIU). Security checks were then handed over to CSIS. The SIU by the way, actually conducted a thorough security check, visiting schools speaking to the neighbors and friends etc of the applicant. By virtue of it's limited mandate the SIU was by far, more efficient than CSIS.

 

[Monsoon]

The SIU by the way, actually conducted a thorough security check, visiting schools speaking to the neighbors and friends etc of the applicant.

CSIS still does the same things for Level II and III clearances, to the best of my knowledge.

 

[teddy49]

Just my 2c on the above posts regarding the need for a change in the style of advertisement. I used to make fun of our forces and never considered joining them because of the way I percieved them, mostly through the news media and the "team superfriend" advertising. Then a couple of my friends joined, spent a year or two in the reserves and told me many things that surprised me. Long story short I was just sworn in. Had I had the impression of the forces I have now I would have done this much sooner. Maybe the forces should look at presenting itself in a new light to the public.

Here in lies the double edged sword or the "unintended consequence" of having the Brass on TV saying how bad the pay is, and how the equipment is all falling apart, and everybody is burned out.  Potential recruits look at that, and say to them selves, "Why should I join that circus, look how bad it is."  We all know that it's true, but making it as public as it has become, can't be having a positive effect on recruiting.

 

[Haggis]

Here in lies the double edged sword or the "unintended consequence" of having the Brass on TV saying how bad the pay is, and how the equipment is all falling apart, and everybody is burned out.   Potential recruits look at that, and say to them selves, "Why should I join that circus, look how bad it is."   We all know that it's true, but making it as public as it has become, can't be having a positive effect on recruiting.

True, in a way.   Whenever I talk to civvies about what I do, I am met by admiration.   Yes, I said "admiration".   Both for the job we do and how little we get by on.   In some cases it borders on pity.   I have had some parents say they'd never let their child join an organization as run down as the CF.   That being said, I think our people are our best recruiters as they (mostly) embody the traits that civvies find admirable in the CF.

Flashy videos and ads only get you so far.   A lot of people take a pee or get a beer during commercials but they will stop at a mall display.   Talking to a real live soldier sailor or aviator who's "been there, done that" goes much further than TV ads ever could.

 

[Springroll]

True, in a way.   Whenever I talk to civvies about what I do, I am met by admiration.   Yes, I said "admiration".   Both for the job we do and how little we get by on.  

By how little, are you talking about the size of the paychecks?

If you are, I do not know of many jobs where you can join with nothing more than a high school diploma and can be making upwards of $50K+/- per year with less than a decade under your belt. Yes, they have to be willing to put their lives on the line, but they also benefit by not having to pay taxes on the income they make while they are deployed to dangerous areas. My mother actually thought that CF members never paid income tax, until she did ours a couple years back and nearly gagged at how much is taken in the way of taxes. People who are having issues with how much they make tend to have issues with the way they spend their money, and that is not the CF's fault. People go and rack up credit everywhere. Not everyone does it, but many do, especially new recruits with very little life experience and no family to support(in the way of dependants).

Now back onto topic....

 

[Haggis]

By how little, are you talking about the size of the paychecks?

No, I meant equipment, public and government support, infrastructure and community footprint.  All our Reg F Army is concentrated in "super garrisons" in or near major centres.  Remember that if it wasn't for the Reserves, most Canadians outside of Fredricton, Ottawa, Pembroke, Toronto, Winnipeg and Edmonton would never see a soldier close up.

We need to get out more....