• Thanks for stopping by. Logging in to a registered account will remove all generic ads. Please reach out with any questions or concerns.

Religion in the Canadian Forces & in Canadian Society

mariomike

Army.ca Legend
Staff member
Directing Staff
Subscriber
Mentor
Reaction score
195
Points
930
Dimsum said:
Oh no.  There are more than enough morons to ensure you guys will never worry about getting laid off (as an institution).

;D

Speaking of helmet legislation,

Province's new mandatory pedestrian helmet law takes effect tomorrow
http://www.vancouverobserver.com/sustainability/2012/04/01/bcs-new-mandatory-pedestrian-helmet-law-takes-effect-tomorrow

 

Attachments

  • PedHelmet.jpg
    PedHelmet.jpg
    41.6 KB · Views: 280
  • nigeria-crash-helmet.jpg
    nigeria-crash-helmet.jpg
    43.1 KB · Views: 306

mariomike

Army.ca Legend
Staff member
Directing Staff
Subscriber
Mentor
Reaction score
195
Points
930
09/12/2016

Sikhs barred from Dollarama store
http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/local/sikhs-barred-from-dollarama-store-393067051.html
Men wearing kirpans denied entry, file human rights complaint
 

daftandbarmy

Army.ca Myth
Reaction score
1,623
Points
1,060
Soldiers who have come under fire often find God

A study of American servicemen finds that those who have experienced combat become more devout

IN THE early years after losing both legs on the battlefield, religion held little solace for Lieutenant Dan Taylor. In “Forrest Gump”, a film released in 1994, the disabled Vietnam veteran described how army chaplains would tell him that he could walk next to God in the kingdom of heaven. “Kiss my crippled ass,” he responded, finding his comfort instead at the bottom of a bottle. Later on, while trawling for shrimp alongside the film’s title character, he taunted Forrest, asking: “Where the hell’s this God of yours?” Unexpectedly, the Almighty answered his call, delivering a storm that yielded a catch of biblical magnitude. The unbelieving lieutenant was duly convinced that God was watching him.

According to a working paper published this week by Resul Cesur, Travis Freidman and Joseph Sabia, a trio of economists in America, there is some truth to the adage that there are no atheists in foxholes. Or rather, wartime trauma often makes people turn to God. After analysing two surveys of American soldiers conducted in the late 2000s, they find compelling evidence that those who have served in combat zones and directly engaged the enemy are more likely to attend religious services regularly than are those who have not.
The authors rule out the possibility that soldiers who come under fire might be unusually devout in the first place. America’s armed forces do not consider personal beliefs when allocating soldiers to units. This meant that the three-quarters of respondents who were assigned to combat zones were roughly as pious as the remainder who were not, which created a natural experiment.

In the first survey that the authors considered, longitudinal data were available for 482 servicemen. This meant that they could control for their attitudes to religion before deployment, as well as their demographic profiles and military records. After making such adjustments, the authors found that soldiers who had served in war zones were about seven percentage points more likely to attend weekly religious services than those without such exposure. However, the overall effect was not quite statistically significant: it was pronounced among those who had already identified as Christians when signing up, but absent among everyone else.

A second, larger survey offered more substantial evidence, considering 11,598 soldiers (though lacking in longitudinal data). Its questions were slightly different, but it showed that respondents who had exchanged fire with the enemy were about two percentage points more likely to attend religious services at least once a fortnight than were those who had not been directly involved in combat, a difference that was statistically significant. Intriguingly, the effect was particularly strong among younger troops, and those who were not officers, even after accounting for various socioeconomic factors. Perhaps junior soldiers are exposed to more traumatic events, or are simply more impressionable.

In that light, the grizzled Lieutenant Taylor seems an unlikely candidate for finding God. But his injury changes the equation. One of the strongest effects in the data was for wounded soldiers, who were about seven percentage points more likely to go to church regularly than were those who had escaped unscathed.

The surveys point to one thing that might have changed since Private Gump served in Vietnam. Although Lieutenant Taylor complained about being harangued by chaplains, respondents in the surveys who had engaged the enemy underwent secular counselling more often than they did guidance from an army padre. This suggests that it is enemy fire, not friendly priests, that makes the difference.

Despite the solace of faith, soldiers who have come under fire disproportionately suffer from post-traumatic stress disorder and commit suicide. Lieutenant Taylor was inspired by his conversion to turn his life around and buy a pair of titanium legs. In real life, Frank Collins, a British soldier who led the raid on the Iranian Embassy in 1980, became a vicar—and later committed suicide.

https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2018/09/03/soldiers-who-have-come-under-fire-often-find-god

 

Infanteer

Army.ca Myth
Staff member
Directing Staff
Donor
Reaction score
387
Points
1,030
A more interesting comparison would be to look at these figures compared to other Western militaries.  US society is, in general, [/url=http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/07/31/americans-are-far-more-religious-than-adults-in-other-wealthy-nations/]much more religious[/url] to start with.
 

mariomike

Army.ca Legend
Staff member
Directing Staff
Subscriber
Mentor
Reaction score
195
Points
930
daftandbarmy said:
Soldiers who have come under fire often find God

They say, "There are no atheists in foxholes."
 

Franko

Army.ca Fixture
Staff member
Directing Staff
Reaction score
1
Points
0
mariomike said:
They say, "There are no atheists in foxholes."

I can say with some confidence that "they" are full of shit. Know plenty of troops who were under contact pretty close on a regular basis and are still staunch atheists.

The padre who visited our FOB was constantly dismayed at the turnout for his services. No doubt due in part to him only showing up when someone was blown up, sticking around for a couple of days, then bugging off back to KAF because of the rockets and mortars constantly streaming in daily.

I only know of one who became "born again".

Maybe it's an American thing....
 

Gunner98

Army.ca Veteran
Subscriber
Donor
Mentor
Reaction score
0
Points
0
mariomike said:
They say, "There are no atheists in foxholes."

https://quoteinvestigator.com/2016/11/02/foxhole/

'They' said, Trenches, then foxholes, within a half-mile of trenches, on Bataan...

"the earliest citations known to QI point to an anonymous origin during World War 1 for the adage using the word “trenches”. The World War 2 saying using the word “foxholes” also had an anonymous origin, and began circulating by April 1942. Warren J. Clear and Ernie Pyle were important popularizers of the expression. QI hypothesizes that the latter “foxholes” saying was derived directly or indirectly from the “trenches” saying. Interesting precursors were employed by Michel de Montaigne and Hannah More.

Does anyone find the incongruity in that a man/soldier finds God under fire, becomes a vicar and then commits suicide?
 

mariomike

Army.ca Legend
Staff member
Directing Staff
Subscriber
Mentor
Reaction score
195
Points
930
Simian Turner said:
https://quoteinvestigator.com/2016/11/02/foxhole/

'They' said, Trenches, then foxholes, within a half-mile of trenches, on Bataan...

"the earliest citations known to QI point to an anonymous origin during World War 1 for the adage using the word “trenches”. The World War 2 saying using the word “foxholes” also had an anonymous origin, and began circulating by April 1942. Warren J. Clear and Ernie Pyle were important popularizers of the expression. QI hypothesizes that the latter “foxholes” saying was derived directly or indirectly from the “trenches” saying.

Nerf herder said:
I can say with some confidence that "they" are full of shit.

Origin, Usage, Notable counterexamples, References and External links here, if interested,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/There_are_no_atheists_in_foxholes
 

Halifax Tar

Army.ca Veteran
Reaction score
259
Points
880
Who gives a crap what anyone believes spiritually.  Just don't inflict on others, that's all I ask.

What ever helps you sleep at night bro.
 

mariomike

Army.ca Legend
Staff member
Directing Staff
Subscriber
Mentor
Reaction score
195
Points
930
Halifax Tar said:
Who gives a crap what anyone believes spiritually.

That's a major discussion,

Religion in the Canadian Forces & in Canadian Society
https://army.ca/forums/threads/25815.0
25 pages.
 

Remius

Army.ca Veteran
Reaction score
421
Points
830
Sigh. 

https://nationalpost.com/opinion/christie-blatchford-god-forbid-canadian-soldiers-go-anywhere-near-a-church?fbclid=IwAR0uA6sgzQ8_BM011T4EeBQ6NGg6Phfbf94BGtDtUTLsDyUX-Kv9_2P_OxY
 

AbdullahD

Sr. Member
Subscriber
Reaction score
0
Points
160
Smfh

Aren't we a Christian nation? Our head of state is Christian is she not?

Don't a significant number of our soldiers identify as a Christian? I think.. yeah, I smfh.

Abdullah
 

Colin Parkinson

Army.ca Legend
Reaction score
658
Points
910
Will he also bar his soldiers from taking part in First Nation religious ceremony as part of their official duties? 
 

dangerboy

Army.ca Veteran
Subscriber
Mentor
Reaction score
170
Points
710
I can remember when I was part of the 48th Highlanders which is part of 32 CBG attending a Church parade every year. It was more of a military/unit service than a religous service.
 

Journeyman

Army.ca Legend
Subscriber
Reaction score
213
Points
680
The path to hell -- a non-denomination hell of course -- is paved with good intentions. 

I wouldn't be surprised if he saw this edict as a logical follow-on from the uproar (and presumed slapping from the Div Comd) that followed his approving troops in CADPAT with C7s participating in Brampton's Sikh Khalsa (Vaisakhi) parade.
    :dunno:
 

Remius

Army.ca Veteran
Reaction score
421
Points
830
dangerboy said:
I can remember when I was part of the 48th Highlanders which is part of 32 CBG attending a Church parade every year. It was more of a military/unit service than a religous service.

This is exactly what they are.  Some of these regiments have long standing relationships with these churches going back 100+ years.  Colours are layed up there, historical links to the community etc etc.

I guess with his order then any type of Remembrance day service is out of the question... ::)
 

mariomike

Army.ca Legend
Staff member
Directing Staff
Subscriber
Mentor
Reaction score
195
Points
930
For reference to the discussion,

Religion in the Canadian Forces & in Canadian Society 
https://navy.ca/forums/threads/25815.200
25 pages.

 

Haggis

Army.ca Veteran
Reaction score
330
Points
880
Remius said:
I guess with his order then any type of Remembrance day service is out of the question... ::)

As long as it's commemorative in nature and not religious.

What concerns me even more is his complete lack of understanding of the role of honourary appointments in the Reserve Force.  You need to pick honouraries who are persons of power and influence or who have deep pockets and a benevolent bent towards "their" regiment.  That choice is better made by the units, regardless of gender and identity politics.
 

Jarnhamar

Army.ca Legend
Reaction score
677
Points
940
From the article.

a group of soldiers — I counted between 15 and 20 — were issued weapons, allowed to march in their military uniforms and were escorted by an armoured vehicle in the annual Khalsa parade for Canada’s Sikh community. It is considered a holy day.

The soldiers were from the Lorne Scots, one of Stepaniuk’s reserve units based in Brampton. The CO of the unit said at the time that he signed off on the weapons only after his commander (that would presumably be Stepaniuk, or perhaps the brigadier-general above him) approved the soldiers’ participation.

So weapons worn at a Khalsa Day parade good, though against the rules (The Canadian Armed Forces Manual of Drill and Ceremonial), according to army spokeswoman Karla Gimby.

But soldiers going anywhere near a church, bad, and against rules five years old that no one cared to enforce until now.

 
Top