Regrets on Entry Plans

[tynanfromBC]

If you've been accepted to UVIC, i say go. You'll have a hell of a time during the school year. Plus, for the Major + Minor with 120 credits you can just do a Double Major in Political Science (with a concentration in international relations or comparative politics, theory, cdn gov't, etc etc) and a major in history (concentration in military history) in the same 4 years.

You can always go on later in life and get that masters in defence and strategic studies.

I have never been to the RMC and know little about what it would be like their; but i know a bit about UVIC, and it's a lot of fun, tons of great people, and through the ROTP (from what i understand of it), you will get to meet people on course in the summers with a similar interest, and then during the school year make friends with similar academic interests or other commonalities. Either way; at the end of it, it's coming down to the education you get. No one can take that education from you.

 

[Lumber]

Either way; at the end of it, it's coming down to the education you get. No one can take that education from you.

True, but at RMC you have 1000 other future officers living, eating, learning, and ******* *** ***** **** with you (thank you for that one, Brotherton). These people become your colleagues, classmates and friends. That amount of networking with the very people you will be fighting next to and with in your very near future is probably the greatest thing I will take with me when I graduate.

Cheers

 

[tumbling_dice]

Thanks tynan, I'm probably looking at Mechanical Engineering though. i currently live in Victoria and I definetely agree that both the city and UVIC are amazing. If I do end up going to UVIC it probably won't be through ROTP simply because I want to take full advantage of their Co-op program (which would not be allowed in ROTP due to the non-military renumeration regulations).

 

[ChaosTheory]

Hey there, I feel like giving my two cents into this thread though you probably already have your answer to your questions.

Brief history, I was accepted into SFU and Civvy-U ROTP and I am now halfway through my third year and I am definitely glad that I went to civvy-u over RMC.  I was especially thankful for this when I was in CFLRS for IAP and then BOTP.  Both times I was in an all civvy u platoon and our sister platoons were always the "RMC kids".  This last summer, my friend from SFU got stuck in the RMC platoon and she said it was the worst platoon she has ever been in.

The RMC kids, as we refer to them, always seemed to have an air of arrogance in their attitude when talking with them.  None of them seemed to want to work together and they always seemed to ask them instructors the questions you shouldn't be asking, (ie: when it is raining, if you could wear rain jackets; and when it is raining, you get your CPC to tell everyone to put on their rain gear, otherwise you will be sleeping in wet clothes). 

As well, RMC, as described by these same people I have met in St. Jean seems a lot easier than it is described, and everything gets done for you.  Basically you are babied, whereas in civilian university you have to do everything yourself and if you don't then you will fail.  This is definitely something that all officers should have when they are leading troops, the ability to get everything done without having someone do it all for you.

 

[SupersonicMax]

The RMC kids, as we refer to them, always seemed to have an air of arrogance in their attitude when talking with them.

As well, RMC, as described by these same people I have met in St. Jean seems a lot easier than it is described, and everything gets done for you.  Basically you are babied, whereas in civilian university you have to do everything yourself and if you don't then you will fail.  This is definitely something that all officers should have when they are leading troops, the ability to get everything done without having someone do it all for you.

Isn't that some kind of "arrogant" attitude towards RMC "Kids"? 

BTW, you are as much a kid as they are.

 

[ChaosTheory]

Never said I wasn't.

 

[Lumber]

As well, RMC, as described by these same people I have met in St. Jean seems a lot easier than it is described, and everything gets done for you.  Basically you are babied, whereas in civilian university you have to do everything yourself and if you don't then you will fail. 

Oh, that's right! Geeze and I had it all backwards. All this time I thought waking up at 0630 to form up in -5 degree weather on a Wednesday morning after having been up half the night filling gout PDRs and studying for exams was hard!

You're so right, it's so much better to not be babied, and not have twice a week mandatory sports, early morning form-ups, weekly military training, an active and fully incorporated cadet chain of command and all the extra paper work that comes with it, dress standards, hair and beard standards, room inspections, mandatory class attendance, walk-throughs, etc.. etc.. Yessir, all that babying makes our lifes sooooo easy.  :

 

[armchair_throwaway]

If by harder he meant having million decisions to make in civilian universities.

Some difficulties I've faced at UBC:
- Should I live in dorm or at home?
- Should I take the easy elective or interesting elective?
- Should I commute by public transit or my own vehicle?
- Should I join the Film society or the Fencing club?
- Should I withdraw from this boring class?
- Should I eat at the Village or the SUB?!

Very tough.

 

[George Wallace]

:

Not to mention; "What socks go with these shoes?"

Can we get back on topic about something a little less trivial?

 

[Magic]

I believe the key going into the RMC is having an open mind towards the experience. I expect it to be brutal and hard. But I also expect to graduate a better more disciplined individual as a result.

All this talk about the arrogance of RMC cadets is feasible and I would expect it present in platoons. However, I am sure those inidivuals will be quickly put in their place sooner or later.

As a hopeful RMC cadet, everyone deserves my equal respect no matter what choice they have made academically. Personally, I would invite the opportunity to mingle with Civi-U cadets any chance I got. At the end of the day however, we are all on the same team and rely on one another for support. Every individual is different, some may complain, some will brag while others may keep to themselves, at the end of the day what counts is you.

 

[GINge!]

Regrets.. not anymore.

I was accepted to U of T under ROTP. 1 day AFTER my BOTC grad, the ULO informed me that a spot had opened up at RMC. Under the terms of my enrollment, I had to take the RMC option if it was offered, or take my release. I had been to RMC on zoo tour and knew that I would not really fit in there, but decided to give it a year. Hated it for the whole year, but I passed 1st yr. Decided to try it for another year. Hated it. By third year, I had enough free weekends to visit my friends at Civy U (Toronto, Western, York) to see how they lived, and that really really made me hate my 3rd and 4th years at RMC  ;D

That being said, looking back, I was glad I went to RMC. I honestly don't think I possessed the self discipline required to go to Civy U and be able to pass phase training at CTC.

I did make lifelong friends at RMC, but I reckon the same could be said for Civy U. RMC cadets do seem to share the bond of common experience, regardless of their graduation year. There is certainly no animosity towards folks who came in via DEO / ROTP Civ..maybe a touch of jealousy though! My DEO friends are jealous that the 4 years of ROTP was all pensionable time, especially now that we are up in the 20 yr mark.

I do understand what Sareon is getting at wrt to 'babying'. At RMC our schedules for the first couple years were carefully managed, our meals were prepared, our bills were paid, our attendance in class, parades, sports was compulsory, etc. The reason for that is a lot of folks show up at RMC without the self discipline to get them through the first years of academic and military life, and I think without that 'babying' (hate that word, but know what you mean) at number of potentially good cadets would fail out. Granted, there are not a lot of life skills to practice and that atmosphere *can* stifle initiative; however, RMC and CTC found ways to make up for that in later years.

I would recommend you at least try RMC.

 

[tyciol]

You can have a DEO officer who went to school at 18, joined the military after graduation at 22 and finished his training and gets posted when he's 23-24. You could have an ROTP type who went to school when he was 30, and finishes training and get's posted at 34-35. I think this is what you're getting at, 'how soon can I get trained and posted'. No one is 'ahead'.

Do you think there are many ROTPs who get accepted at 30? I figured if you were over the 18-20 range that they wouldn't let you in since they wanted young officers. How much flexibility do you think there is for age and stuff? In the previous example of your DEO who got a degree by 22, instead of DEO, do you think they could apply to an ROTP instead to get a 2nd degree? Some people may go for multiple specialties, or maybe their degree is in something that's not very applicable to the military, or they want something engineering-oriented when they were doing a pre-med and decided healthcare wasn't for them.

 

[KingKikapu]

pre-med.  god i loved hearing that one.

 

[chris_log]

Do you think there are many ROTPs who get accepted at 30? I figured if you were over the 18-20 range that they wouldn't let you in since they wanted young officers. How much flexibility do you think there is for age and stuff? In the previous example of your DEO who got a degree by 22, instead of DEO, do you think they could apply to an ROTP instead to get a 2nd degree? Some people may go for multiple specialties, or maybe their degree is in something that's not very applicable to the military, or they want something engineering-oriented when they were doing a pre-med and decided healthcare wasn't for them.

I have met plenty of older ROTP types, people coming in from right off the street and not CFR'd etc.

A person with a degree already could apply for ROTP to get a second degree, however, the CF may not see that as a viable option and will offer you a direct entry instead.

 

[tyciol]

So is it that they just want officers to have a bachelor's degree of some sort because it looks good? Certain areas presumably don't have a direct enough military purpose, which is why RMC doesn't offer as wide a variety of programs as most other large universities do. They offer them presumably in areas which are more applicable to military experience. Although, there are exceptions, since stuff like Nursing/Dentistry/Medicine are very useful and they don't teach them, but that's more because it's supportive for troops and it would require them to specialize too much probably I guess.

 

[chris_log]

So is it that they just want officers to have a bachelor's degree of some sort because it looks good? Certain areas presumably don't have a direct enough military purpose, which is why RMC doesn't offer as wide a variety of programs as most other large universities do. They offer them presumably in areas which are more applicable to military experience. Although, there are exceptions, since stuff like Nursing/Dentistry/Medicine are very useful and they don't teach them, but that's more because it's supportive for troops and it would require them to specialize too much probably I guess.

There are a number of reasons for a 'degreed' officer corps. They are on this site somewhere if you search for 'em (I don't really have the time to do it right now).

 

[Riddoch]

Just curious, but is the 12U math mandatory for ROTP in general, or only for RMC? (looking at English). I'll be heading to the CFRC tomorrow to check out my options, but would like to know ahead of time if possible.  The websites don't give a definitive answer.

 

[dwalter]

Is 12U math highschool grade math? Such as grade 12 math? If so, then it is applicable for any university that has it in the admission requirements. If you want to go into science or engineering at pretty much all universities you need it.

For arts degrees, some universities still require it, some don't. My university didn't.

If you are talking about first year math at university? Again it depends on your degree. My school didn't require it for the arts program, but we do need 6 credits of science.

 

[trentonmilwife]

Wow this topic really has expanded into many different sub topics, some of which I feel the need to add my two cents.

As a mature Civvy-u ROTP student, I can tell you that I am living proof that people 30+ join the forces under the ROTP program. Its not easy to go back to school once you've been established in life, but enough are doing it and its not always because, well I didn't like my dead-end job so I have no choice. I had a great job, I was an HR manager and thought that was my career and then I got married to a military guy (who actually was a DEO, not because he got out of university and didn't know what to do with himself, but because he always wanted to join) Anyways fast forward a few years and after going through lots of change and other posting, I wasn't able to get another job in the HR field that paid more than EI, so after 8 long months I applied to go back to school and to ROTP. Its been the best choice I ever made and I'm glad I went the Civvy-U route.

Now should I have been 18 and fresh out of the house again, I probably still would've chosen the Civvy-U route as I do feel that while RMC is a unique experience; so is being 18, living on your own and being a responsible adult because you want to, not because an inspection is coming and you have to. RMC will teach you many things, but does it teach you how to really take care of yourself? Here in Trenton, I've seen many young 2Lts and Lts who are miserable because they have never known what its like to live alone and survive, how to cook, how to really clean a place (because oh its been more than 6 months in one apartment and carpets look really dirty now). I know this doesn't apply to all RMC students, as I've met some great ones too, but many face a steep life learning curve once they get spit out of the training system and get their first real posting. (And the same thing could be said for some Civvy-U students or DEOs who never left the house or lived in residences their whole uni "career". I guess this could speak volumes on how parenting has changed, but that's a different topic all together)

Other food for thought

The forces is all about the "team", but in a school where you are continuously being ranked in order of grades and everything is so competitve, do you really ever because a true team player? Does that mentality ever change once you've bought in?

Does having a schedule that dictates exactly when you can do everything from sleep to eat to class to PT to extracuriculars to shower really teach you to time manage???

Yes you make great friends at RMC, partly due to the small class size and constant interaction, however I don't feel it is an advantage over DEOs or Civvy-U students, as we get to network just as much as really and sometimes the lack of "fear" (or some may put it as respect) of the rank system actually helps us network with higher ranks with greater ease. Because really at the end of the day, will it be your peer who helps you get that next posting or someone two ranks higher than you?

My point is just that in the grand scheme of things, different experiences can prepare you for different challenges, just ask yourself, how will ____ (insert thing you are considering here) help me in 5 years, 10 years, 15 years???

 

[Magic]

To each their own about RMC.

Sure it may not be for everyone, however a big bonus of RMC is at the end of your studies you are bilingual and have a good chunk of your "promotional courses" required for higher ranking promotions later on. Where as civi-u you get none of that. Plus the RMC better prepares you for military life initially.

everyone has different situations at home.