Naval Officers Once Again to Wear the Executive Curl

[Steel Badger]

lol I will poke again... So what about the rest of the Navy? The lower decks I mean...

Anything in our future ?

Based on conversations with my Naval confreres here at the Centre: They will be satisfied if the Tot is restored to the lower deck  >

 

[Pusser]

I find it interesting that people often renminisce about the daily tot as if it was something that was taken away.  It wasn't that simple.  The reality is that there was much discussion and the daily tot was discontinued more or less at the sailors' request (at least one can look at it that way).  First off, the daily tot for officers was discontinued in the RN in 1881, before the RCN even existed and considering that the RCN was originally just a smaller copy of the RN, Canadian officers have never received daily tots (they had the Wardroom bar instead)  In the late 60s it was noticed that more and more sailors were choosing to be classed as "temperate."  This meant that rather than drawing their daily tots, they received a bonus on their pay (only applied to sailors who were old enough though - underage sailors received neither rum nor extra pay).  Keep also in mind that the daily tot and a ration of beer was the only alcohol that sailors got on board (meanwhile the Wardroom bar ran freely), so when they were offered bars in the messes in exchange for the tot, everybody thought they wer making progress!

 

[Steel Badger]

I stand educated Sir!

My Naval Colleagues however are still maintaining that they want Beer Machines AND the Tot.

 

[Pusser]

The beer machines are still there and we still issue tots on special occasions.

 

[ctjj.stevenson]

Personally, I would not mind a return of the square rig. I would believe that the Canadian Navy is one of the world's only navies that do not wear such a type of uniform. Also, I would believe that it would also be a bit less expensive to have these uniformes for OS to MS then what is currently offered.

As for ranks. Parts of me would think 2 things. One, keep it as it is to have a touch of Canadianist or, to use what the Royal Canadian Sea Cadets use today.

Cheers!
Stevi

 

[armyvern]

I think it's time that we bring back the rum ration!  For all ranks, of course.

This is one for that other thread running ...

You know know old when you remember issuing out the Tots to those who would deliver them to the troops in the field from the MSA in Gagetown & Rations in Halifax.

Stocktaking was always fun too.

 

[tabernac]

Personally, I would not mind a return of the square rig. I would believe that the Canadian Navy is one of the world's only navies that do not wear such a type of uniform. Also, I would believe that it would also be a bit less expensive to have these uniforms for OS to MS then what is currently offered.

It should be up to the NCMs to decide. If a growing element within the naval NCM body wants a return to square rig style dress, then due attention should be paid. Likewise, if reaction to such implementation was to be negative. And I debate the cost savings that you think would be had. It would be expensive implementation, and it would make the double breasted tunics more expensive as there would be fewer members requiring them. But I digress.

use what the Royal Canadian Sea Cadets use today.

Don't they now use a CF style structure?

 

[Halifax Tar]

I would love to see a return to square rig for OS - MS but purely as a replacement of our current Naval NCM Dress. Not for work dress or operational dress.  I don't see this happening though as I think there would be much resistance from MS and below mess.

As for the ranks Currently we have:

OS-AB-LS-MS // PO2 - PO1 // CPO2 CPO1

VS

OS-AB-LS // PO2 - PO1 // CPO2 CPO1

I propose we keep the chevron for AB. LS would now wear the single fowled anchor and the MS the fowled anchor with a single chevron underneath.

Or we could just do away with the MS rank and go back to the Killick filling that role as they did in the past. This would mean that people would now become ABs for life instead of Killicks. To implement this It would simply be that all MS left work on Friday as an MS and came back on Monday as LS. All LS left on Friday and came back as ABs. Simple change of insignia and title.

Just my  :2c:

 

[sapperboysen]

Don't they now use a CF style structure?

The rank names are the same, but the badges used are closer to what the RCN used.

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

Personally, I would not mind a return of the square rig. I would believe that the Canadian Navy is one of the world's only navies that do not wear such a type of uniform. Also, I would believe that it would also be a bit less expensive to have these uniformes for OS to MS then what is currently offered.

As for ranks. Parts of me would think 2 things. One, keep it as it is to have a touch of Canadianist or, to use what the Royal Canadian Sea Cadets use today.

Cheers!
Stevi

Good luck with that as those that want the square rig  back in the MS and below level are in the minority. Remember for most of us the style of uniform that we wear now is what we were taught to have pride with. To bring something back that we have no connection with is only asking for further erosion of morale.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Good luck with that as those that want the square rig  back in the MS and below level are in the minority. Remember for most of us the style of uniform that we wear now is what we were taught to have pride with. To bring something back that we have no connection with is only asking for further erosion of morale.

Exactly my point. I am in that minority that would love to see a return of the square rig but I don't see it happening.

Anyways I feel I have derailed the wardrooms nice thread on their cute little curl  ;D So back to you fellas! 

 

[Blatchman]

The rank names are the same, but the badges used are closer to what the RCN used.

The Sea Cadet Rank Badges are the same except with an anchor instead of a maple leaf on MS & Crossed anchors on PO2.

They use basically the RCN rank structure only on their gun shirts and now that we have introduced the rank of LS it is not the same as LS is two chevrons and MS is the anchor (Killick).

 

[Pusser]

In the RCN, the badges of rank were the anchors (one for LS, two crossed for PO2 and two crossed with crown for PO1).  The chevrons were for years of good conduct (one for three years, two for eight and three for thirteen).  A "three badge AB" was an Able Seaman who had at least 13 years of service, but had never been promoted to leading seaman - not that uncommon.  A man with one chevron and an anchor outranked a guy with just three chevrons.  This must have confused the heck out of the Army and Air Force!.  I can't see us switching back to a system like that.

As an aside, the rank of Master Seaman was introduced before everybody managed to get into the green uniform.  The badge of the new MS on the square rig was supposed to be a single fouled anchor with a crown above.  I've only seen this described in a regulation.  I've never seen a picture of anyone actually wearing it.

I'd love to see square rig come back.  I wore it as a sea cadet and for special events when I was in the Naval Reserve.  The reaction we got from the public was amazing (especially when compared to when people thought I was a bus driver in green).  It really is true that all the nice girls love a sailor!  If the lower deck could see what a magnet square rig is for the opposite sex, they might think differently of it.

 

[jollyjacktar]

I would love to have the Square Rig back.  When I was a youngster I thought hard about joining the RN just for the uniform as I wanted to look like a Sailor.  Thankfully I never served as a Sailor when the greens were in use.  I shudder to think of how shitty that must have looked in person.  The photos on the walls of  CFNES from back in the day are bad enough.  While the present DEU is a proper Naval uniform, I would prefer it regulated to the Officers and Chiefs.  But that is just my  :2c:

In reality, we won't turn back the book.  Too expensive and we have bigger fish to fry such as getting new ships out of the penny pinchers in Ottawa.

 

[ctjj.stevenson]

Firstly, never would I have proposed that a return to square rigs to become the only naval uniform in Canada. I would imagine the following if square rigs were to return as orders of dress:

No. 1 (Ceremonial) Dress

• No. 1 - Navy blue square rig uniform with medals, swords, etc.
• No. 1A - Navy blue square rig uniform with medals only
  • No. 1C - White square rig uniform, with medals
  • No. 1D - White square rig uniform, with ribbons only

No. 2 (Mess) Dress

• No. 2 - Navy blue square rig with ribbons
• No. 2A - white square rig with ribbons

No. 3 (Service) Dress

• No. 3 - Square rig with ribbons (either blue or white)
• No. 3A - as it is for the moment
  • No. 3B - as it is for the moment - however, replacing service cap for seamen's cap.
  • No. 3C - As it is for the moment - however, replacing service cap for seamen's cap
    • No. 3D - As it is.
    
    No. 5 - Operational Dress - Remain as it is.
    
    
    Cheers!

 

[gcclarke]

Thankfully I never served as a Sailor when the greens were in use.  I shudder to think of how shitty that must have looked in person.  The photos on the walls of  CFNES from back in the day are bad enough

It always amused me how it apparently took until the 80's for the Navy to discover what a colour photograph was for the Commandant's picture.

 

[FSTO]

For those of you with DIN access:
http://otg-vcd-webs018.ottawa-hull.mil.ca/Cid/project-home_e.asp

Pretty much as official as you can make it without the announcement.

Also SSI details as well;

http://otg-vcd-webs018.ottawa-hull.mil.ca/Cid/project-home_e.asp

If you have problems go to CID home, Level 1 Sponsors, CMS, Implementation, Project Type, Equipment, Executive Curl or Sea Service Indicator.

 

[ekpiper]

For those of you with DIN access:
http://otg-vcd-webs018.ottawa-hull.mil.ca/Cid/project-home_e.asp

Pretty much as official as you can make it without the announcement.

Also SSI details as well;

http://otg-vcd-webs018.ottawa-hull.mil.ca/Cid/project-home_e.asp

If you have problems go to CID home, Level 1 Sponsors, CMS, Implementation, Project Type, Equipment, Executive Curl or Sea Service Indicator.

Would it be possible for you to post the contents here?  I do not have DIN access.

Thanks.

 

[FSTO]

Would it be possible for you to post the contents here?  I do not have DIN access.

Thanks.

Eventhough the website is within the unclass section of the DIN, I will not copy and paste until the official announcement is made. This has nothing to do with OPSEC, just a personal deal I have made with myself. Sorry.
Suffice to say it outlines the process that is used to get the item to the users.

Cheers

 

[Snakedoc]

I suspect that Naval Cadets will have a curl, simply because they already have it on their mess kits and have had it for several years now.

I took a look at the links on the DIN.  FSTO is right, basically as official as possible without an announcement.  One note I would like to make is that in the project description for the executive curl, it states that "Officer cadets will retain the current CF rank insignia without the executive curl."  This confirms earlier assertions that NCdt's will not have the curl.  It also states that a Canadian Disruptive Pattern version of the executive curl for garrison or non-tactical use will be made for those out in the field.