Naval Officers Once Again to Wear the Executive Curl

[Blatchman]

This was posted in another forum I frequent thought it would be of interest.

Lauzon Presents Bill to Reintroduce Executive Curl to Navy Uniform

Ottawa March 5, 2010 - OTTAWA - Today, Guy Lauzon, MP for Stormont-Dundas-South Glengarry, introduced and spoke to his Private Members Motion in the House of Commons to reintroduce the Navy Executive Curl to the maritime command uniforms of the Canadian Forces. This motion comes as the Navy is preparing to celebrate its 100th anniversary.

“The loss of the executive curl on navy uniforms was a huge hit to morale back in the 1960s. This is one of the reasons why I want to give back part of the navy's pride and traditions which were lost with amalgamation in 1968”, said MP Lauzon.

“Today, Canada's navy is the only blue-water force in the world that does not incorporate some form of executive curl, national emblem, or a nautical icon”, Lauzon continued.

“I hope that this motion will gain support from all parties in the House,” he concluded. “To some people, this motion seems very simple and unimportant. But to many historians, military enthusiasts, and our veterans, it is just a small token to show our respect and appreciation.”

 

[gcclarke]

The title mostly speaks for itself. Since the House of Commons started sitting once again post-proroguement, one of the first private members motions that was brought forth was by Guy Lauzon, a Conservative party MP from eastern Ontario, who moved "That, in the opinion of the House, in light of the upcoming centennial of the Canadian Navy, the government should consider reinstating the Navy executive curl on its uniforms." This motion was, after about 13 minutes of bantering, unanimously adopted by the House.

And I do realize that this particular motion is not binding, it merely requests that the government should consider the idea. That having been said, what with the unanimous support, I don't think it's an idea that will be ignored.

Here is a transcript of the proceedings.


[quote author=Mr. Guy Lauzon, CPC]The navy uniform, in particular, lost one of its very unique traditions which distinguished it from the two junior services. The navy executive curl, also known as Elliott's Eye, was removed from the sleeve of naval officers' uniforms. This left Canada as the only blue water navy in the world whose officers did not sport either an executive curl, a stylized national emblem, a nautical icon or a star in its ranking scheme.

It is important for us to realize that for members of the Canadian Forces, the navy being no exception, these small details and the traditions associated with them bring much pride and esprit de corps. Even members of the Canadian Coast Guard wear a maple leaf with their rank insignia with the original intention to set itself apart from the navy and its executive curl.

The tradition of the navy incorporating the executive curl is a long one. In 1856, the Royal Navy instituted an executive curl and when the Canadian Navy was created in 1910, it adopted the curl as well. In fact, of the 22 countries in the Commonwealth who maintain a navy, 18 of them incorporate the executive curl into their ranking system. This loss of the executive curl on the navy uniform meant a loss of some of the identity of the navy.

I believe the timing of the motion is significant and important as well. With the 100th anniversary of the Canadian Navy, what better time to right this wrong and reincorporate the executive curl into the uniform of the navy? That is why I am here today to ask the House to support my efforts. This motion is aimed to give the navy back part of its identity lost in 1968 and to support the men and women of the Canadian Forces.
[/quote]

 

[ModlrMike]

Call me a cynic if you will, but I look forward to reading the "we have better things to spend money on" arguments. Just to clarify my bias, I support the initiative.

 

[GAP]

uhhhh....guys....knowing little about the navy, could someone explain what this Navy executive curl is? haircut/decoration/what?

 

[kratz]

I know wikipedia is not always the best reference, but this article does have an image of the executive curl. It's the Officer's rank, with one bar having a curl in it on their uniform.

 

[GAP]

Ok...that makes more sense now....thanks

 

[gcclarke]

Call me a cynic if you will, but I look forward to reading the "we have better things to spend money on" arguments. Just to clarify my bias, I support the initiative.

Oh, I'm sure some people will be mentioning it. But I personally feel that this particular program will have a rather large "bang for your buck" factor. I personally lament the fact that we have lost many of our traditions, and that this is a great step in the right direction. And I know that I'm certainly not alone in that regard. And it's not like a few slip-ons, a pair of shoulder-boards and tailoring a tunic will be all that expensive per person.

Now if only we could get the "Royal" back and stop pretending that anyone thinks the new toasts of the day were a good idea.

 

[Acer Syrup]

I guess the only person who won't like it will be the base tailor... a new challenge is always good though.

So I guess my question would be, what would some of the junior officers ranks look like? i.e SLt and A/SLt

The RN uses this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Navy_officer_rank_insignia

And from my understanding (as I am a wipper snapper) the RCN used:

Mid, SLt, A/Lt, Lt, ...

What to do with that little bar???

 

[hugh19]

That's easy. Just a loop with the little bar. Just like RN Warrant Officers used to have.

 

[FDO]

I think it's a good idea. They gave us back our uniform, sort of. Why not the curl. I think we should go back to wearing our ranks too. Can you imagine how screwed up some RSM would be to have a "Hookie Scribe" working for him/her!!?

 

[Journeyman]

As today's Duty Nay-Sayer, the motion merely reads that "the government consider..." -- it's not a done-deal.

That being said, I also hope you swabbies get your curl back.  :nod:



(And agreed, I've no love for the new toasts. But I've been at enough Joint Mess Dinners to appreciate the creativity of some Subbies in somehow working the original ones into their spiel  )

 

[willellis]

Like the idea myself. I can understand the argument that some people might make about $$ could be put to better use, but this can't really cost that much, can it?

 

[gcclarke]

With regard to the subbies, I also don't think it'd bad to have the loop with the full bar, and then the stripe below.

 

[Nfld Sapper]

Call me cynical (correct term?) but by the time the contracting and production of the curl wouldn't the centennial be almost over?

Edited for spelling

 

[MSEng314]

Seems pretty unlikely considering it was discussed recently at the Naval Board 03-09 in October of 2009:

.....
Item XIII - Round Table ......

32. Comd MARCOM. The Comd MARCOM briefed the Board on the following issues:

The emerging way ahead on the Operational Service Medal and the Naval applications he expects to be instituted for this medal. He also briefed on the ongoing work for the seas service badge as a CNC project.
The Navy is not considering a return to the executive curl, the square rig or the White Ensign.

.....

 

[gcclarke]

Just because the Navy's senior leadership wasn't going to go ahead and try to make their rank insignia different (more special?) than the other branches unprompted, does not mean that they wouldn't gladly support doing so upon being prompted (directed?) to by Parliament. And I agree, this isn't something that should have been initiated by CMS, or anyone in the CF for that matter. We lost the curl as the result of an act of Parliament, it is only right that it is Parliament that initiates us getting it back.

 

[Edward Campbell]

I think the executive curl is just another problem unless it is part of a larger, Navy, solution.

Back when the earth was still cooling and I was in the staff college, one of my classmates, who went to achieve very, very high rank in the navy, proposed just such a solution: total Navy identity for all naval personnel - this is before we had "Coates of many colours", i.e. the DEU introduced by then Minister of National Defence Robert Coates to replace the "jolly green jumper" - wherein their status as Navy overrode their status as members of this, that or the other branch.

I can't remember the details but I do recall that it involved the curl for MARS and MARE and straight stripes plus a badge for all others, plus colours between the stripes and so on. I also recall that he had an all ranks solution.

Some years later, when he held flag rank and we were reminiscing over a pint or two, he mentioned that the idea was not dead but it never quite worked its way up anyone's list of priorities. He also reinforced the notion that identity 'solutions' for the Navy and the Air Force, while very highly desirable, were still fraught with difficulties and needed to be comprehensive: all ranks and all branches, in both services, and all at once.

 

[Journeyman]

Again, this isn't my turf, but are they considering "straight bars" for RegF and "wavy navy bars" for Shads Res?

:stirpot:

 

[Michael OLeary]

Will proposed changes changes to rank insignia, except for promotions and initial issue, be at personal expense?

 

[Monsoon]

Again, this isn't my turf, but are they considering "straight bars" for RegF and "wavy navy bars" for Shads Res?

As long as the all Reg F guys who were trained by Res folks get to wear wavy bars too, why not?