Military can absorb Tory recruit promises if there is money: Hiller

[STONEY]

I believe it can be done. I originally joined during the great cold war expansion and found myself in recruit school a mere 5 weeks after walking into the recruiting center. The place was bursting at the seams and all the newer barracks were full so my class was shuffled off to some old wartime H-huts with long open dorms that had not been used for many years . We were there for 18 weeks and they graduated a class of approx 60 every week and on a few occasions 2 classes. All classes had their own class WO & MWO plus all other instructers in the school were at least SGT. level.

Fast forward to today , a couple of my co-workers had sons trying to get into infantry they waited around for 8 months after walking into recruiting centre before being called to go to basic and other trades have to wait a lot longer. So it would appear the porcess has slowed up a lot, maybe the infastructure isn't there anymore. But unless the military has changed a lot,  i think if the money in made available and Hillier say do it , it'll get done somehow.

 

[Scott57]

Fast forward to today , a couple of my co-workers had sons trying to get into infantry they waited around for 8 months after walking into recruiting centre before being called to go to basic and other trades have to wait a lot longer. So it would appear the porcess has slowed up a lot, maybe the infastructure isn't there anymore. But unless the military has changed a lot,  i think if the money in made available and Hillier say do it , it'll get done somehow.

STONEY: agree totally. I was in Cornwallis 4 weeks after stepping into the Recruiting Office in Bathurst NB.The The infrastrucure both at the schools and recruiting centres (and process) has be fixed after the reckless chnages and downsizing that occurred in the 90's. I'm still not confident this is being looked at in the manner that it should. The fact that the schools are still seeking incremental staff (a product of the downsizing) and the continual long recruiting process can attest to that. 

But, I agree with the CDS. It can be achieved if the resources and money are provided.

Valcatraz can't be the only place around where vehicles are scarce.

GEO: your correct. It exists in Petawawa as well. It may not be all Units, however, the two that I served with recently had major shortages (B Vehs).

 

[George Wallace]

STONEY

In your day there were two Recruit Training Centers; one in Cornwallis and one in St Jean.  Today we only have the one in St Jean.  The CF, due to FRP and other cutbacks, no longer has a large Instructor base to draw from so qualified Instructors are a lot fewer.  With recent events, Borden has been opened up to act as an overflow training facility for St Jean, but we still have the problem of lack of Instructors.  Compound the problem with those currently from the '80s and 90's reaching end of Contract or CRA and the Instructor Pool will stay at a bare minimum.  That problem may not be properly rectified until well after the CF has its 13,000 +/- new recruits trained and the Instructor Pool then having more members to draw from. 

 

[DG-41]

Man... this sure gets a not-quite-as-young-as-he once-was man's thoughts drifting towards operational transfer....

What's the situation like in the RCD these days?

DG

 

[geo]

STONEY
In your day there were two Recruit Training Centers; one in Cornwallis and one in St Jean.  Today we only have the one in St Jean.  The CF, due to FRP and other cutbacks, no longer has a large Instructor base to draw from so qualified Instructors are a lot fewer.  With recent events, Borden has been opened up to act as an overflow training facility for St Jean, but we still have the problem of lack of Instructors.  Compound the problem with those currently from the '80s and 90's reaching end of Contract or CRA and the Instructor Pool will stay at a bare minimum.  That problem may not be properly rectified until well after the CF has its 13,000 +/- new recruits trained and the Instructor Pool then having more members to draw from. 

George,
when you say that we're down to one Recruit school - you're right & wrong at the same time. They have been using Work Point Barracks for BMQ training - If the facilities are there - they can continue to use em.... OR Cornwallis has become a peacekeeping centre - who says it can't be converted back to what it once was...... OR there's always CFB Goose Bay that NATO has chosen to walk away from....
so facilities.... we've got!!

with respect to the instructors - given that a lot of senior individuals are going to retire in the near future (or have recently retired) it would make a lot of sense to "make em an offer that they can't refuse". If the Gov't is serious about growing the military and willing to provide the necessary funding, am positive there are many motivated soldiers who would provide the bridge and relieve the growing pain - as long as they are not penalised for it.

 

[TCBF]

" I originally joined during the great cold war expansion and found myself in recruit school a mere 5 weeks after walking into the recruiting center. The place was bursting at the seams and all the newer barracks were full so my class was shuffled off to some old wartime H-huts with long open dorms that had not been used for many years . We were there for 18 weeks and they graduated a class of approx 60 every week and on a few occasions 2 classes. All classes had their own class WO & MWO plus all other instructers in the school were at least SGT. level."

Stoney, what CFB and what year was this?

Tom

 

[Trogdor]

Well all this attention is encouraging.  It certainly sways me more to take my military carrer to the next level and join the regs.  I've been a reservist for almost five years now and I'm really enjoying the work.  In that time I have helped get people in my personal life on the path to joining both the regs and the reserves.  I think if we do get up to the strength of 83,000 in the total CF it would be very positive for both Canada and the world.

 

[Navy_Blue]

We all seem to think there is 23000 people in Canada that think the military is a viable career.  The recruiting process as it stands now is making our most promising people wait so long they find other options.  We end up recruiting allot of people really not suited or not prepared for a life in the forces.  These people then tend to release early wasting allot of time and money.  You almost have to recruit 2/3's more people than you need to account for the failures and releases (not to mention nut bars, ever heard and I quote "when I was with the SAS" from a 18 year old recruit).  Thats can be a big waste too. 

The other issue is that a discusting amount of people don't realize we have a military.  I don't know how many times I've told people I'm in the navy and got the response "we have a navy?"  I think this comes from almost 15 years of the media's unrelenting criticism of the Canadian Forces.  Mind you the government made criticism very easy.  Never the less I wouldn't buy into a company that has had this much bad press and smart educated young people look at recruitment the same way.  (I don't no what this makes me??? I kinda bought into the company )



No matter what our condition is today our personnel have made the most of what they have and had an adapt and overcome mentality that is very much a trait of our forces.  We think outside the box.  I hope they can find the people they need and I hope we get the type of people we deserve.

 

[The_Falcon]

We all seem to think there is 23000 people in Canada that think the military is a viable career.  The recruiting process as it stands now is making our most promising people wait so long they find other options.  We end up recruiting allot of people really not suited or not prepared for a life in the forces.  These people then tend to release early wasting allot of time and money.  You almost have to recruit 2/3's more people than you need to account for the failures and releases (not to mention nut bars, ever heard and I quote "when I was with the SAS" from a 18 year old recruit).  Thats can be a big waste too.   

The other issue is that a discusting amount of people don't realize we have a military.  I don't know how many times I've told people I'm in the navy and got the response "we have a navy?"  I think this comes from almost 15 years of the media's unrelenting criticism of the Canadian Forces.  Mind you the government made criticism very easy.  Never the less I wouldn't buy into a company that has had this much bad press and smart educated young people look at recruitment the same way.  (I don't no what this makes me??? I kinda bought into the company )



No matter what our condition is today our personnel have made the most of what they have and had an adapt and overcome mentality that is very much a trait of our forces.  We think outside the box.  I hope they can find the people they need and I hope we get the type of people we deserve.

I think you nailed it.  Its great to sit here and speculate the hows and wheres of trying train/equip/house(regs anyways) 23000 more pers, but the reality is the CF has an image problem in the mindset of most Canadians.  To most Canadians we are "peacekeepers" and this image is what will prevent us from getting more people in the combat arms, which I presume is what the CDS is after, not more wogs, logs, and techs who tend to view the CF as a cushy job, and cringe at thought of even going out into the field.  (in all fairness, I know not all support trades have this mentality, but we all know they are out there, and more of them is the last thing we need, if we want to be more combat capable).  So before we start running around like idiots worrying about how to handle these numbers, we need to figure out how to attract them.  And for that there are other threads to discuss this in.

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

"To most Canadians we are "peacekeepers" and this image is what will prevent us from getting more people in the combat arms,"

Then lets change the image. 
As a side note I wonder if the CSOR will draw new blood.

 

[matty101]

I'm not in yet, However the army's what I want for my life and I'll take it any way I can get it.  The new units like CSOR and (not new) Para Coy's are a source of motivation for me because the are combat orientated.  I'm fine with peace keeping, but If I wanted to be a cop I'd be a cop.  I know a lot of people will come into the recruiting offices and say they want to "JTF-2" or what ever.  But if that's what gets them in the door than maybe it's not to bad a thing.  As far as the waiting times for getting in? well I know I'll be fit as balls by the time I start my basic. 

Matty

 

[Haggis]

"To most Canadians we are "peacekeepers" and this image is what will prevent us from getting more people in the combat arms,"

Then lets change the image. 

There's 28 pages of good ideas here: http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/2276.0.html

As a side note I wonder if the CSOR will draw new blood.

Only if they get better press than JTF-2.  Nobody's gonna join a unit they know nothing about.  Outside the CF very little is known about JTF-2, which is not that big an issue as they don't recruit "off the street".  IMO neither should CSOR, but some good press would allow prospective recruits to see something to strive for once in.

 

[Navy_Blue]

If you walk into a CFRC and say sign me up for JTF they should turn you around and show you the door.  Come back when your not playing war in the back yard with your friends.  Its a voluntary thing to be apart of the unit and muster into it but if your attitude is all blow things up and kill people you shouldn't be there.  Its a mind set that not everyone has.  They should be told they need the experience that only time in the regs can give.  I don't think you can direct entry into JTF anyways.

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

"but some good press would allow prospective recruits to see something to strive for once in"

My thoughts exactly.

 

[rifleman]

Just rename ourselves the Canadian Special Forces  CSF and they will come in droves... ;D

 

[ERIK2RCR]

On that note, we juat recieved word that the manning for the CSOR takes priority over manning for TF 1-07, And that anyone who wants to go will be going for selection as early as 06 April. Openings for 031's and support trades. 2RCR may look like a ghost town soon. On the bright side, lots of openings on the tour  :

 

[geo]

Gunner.... by the sounds of things, might as well rebadge 2RCR to CSOR and go thru the recruiting process to rebuild the 2nd... worse comes to worse, they can always use TF207 - which isn't tasked right now.

 

[ERIK2RCR]

They've already picked through most of 3RCR, probably going to go through every infantry batallion. Rebadging us wouldn't work......too many out of shape mechanized troops here.  ;D

 

[derael]

Just rename ourselves the Canadian Special Forces  CSF and they will come in droves... ;D

Do the special forces get to ride the "special bus"?  ???  ;D

 

[rifleman]

ha ha good one. ;D