Military accepts B.C. man who allegedly boasted of murders, said he was Christ

[geo]

... well said TTG
A bolt - missing it's wing-nut

 

[Col.Steiner]

All that and no bells went off? But someone who teaches English in Japan for a year gets put through the ringer and waits for 2 years for the check to come back? It seems that things are done in a half-assed manner or extremely anal and thorough; common sense never coming into the equation. :rage:

 

[armyvern]

It only raises alarm bells for me in that everyone in the media seems to believe it. He could have said anything. I seriously doubt he was a Royal Marines Commando......after all, none of these fruitcakes are ever chefs or mechanics right?

Actually, no one -- not even the CF spokeperson has denied his previous military service. So rather -- I'd suspect that's because it's a fact.

For all those of you yelling and screaming "HOW??", "How would the Royal Marines not have noticed", "What's happening to the recruiter who missed this etc" ... perhaps you should all re-read they very first article ...

where "the second coming himself" has stated that he never experienced these feelings or wanted to do these things until AFTER he was charged, and found innocent of those BC murders. He says that dealing with all that ... is what led to his current state.

Sometimes, it helps to read the entire thread ... and the articles reffed if one wants to avoid ranting about "Marine time" etc that occured well before the mental issues did.

 

[Col.Steiner]

Actually, no one -- not even the CF spokeperson has denied his previous military service. So rather -- I'd suspect that's because it's a fact.

For all those of you yelling and screaming "HOW??", "How would the Royal Marines not have noticed", "What's happening to the recruiter who missed this etc" ... perhaps you should all re-read they very first article ...

where "the second coming himself" has stated that he never experienced these feelings or wanted to do these things until AFTER he was charged, and found innocent of those BC murders. He says that dealing with all that ... is what led to his current state.

Sometimes, it helps to read the entire thread ... and the articles reffed if one wants to avoid ranting about "Marine time" etc that occured well before the mental issues did.

I really don't think this person all of a sudden went bat-shit-crazy AFTER he joined the forces! There must have been some signs that he was nuts during the interview, as I cannot believe someone like that falls through the cracks.

 

[Michael OLeary]

I really don't think this person all of a sudden went bat-crap-crazy AFTER he joined the forces! There must have been some signs that he was nuts during the interview, as I cannot believe someone like that falls through the cracks.

And what skills are you expecting a military career counselor to have that would enable pronouncing someone "bat-crap-crazy" during a recruiting interview?  I am quite certain if he was drooling and chanting throughout the interview it would have been noted. 

Try to imagine the crap that would arise if someone thought their application was turned down because some recruiter decided they weren't right in the head.  Read the forums here, we can't even get people to understand that their serious medical problems are rational grounds for denying their presumed "right" to serve, even after they've been formally refused.

 

[geo]

There must have been some signs that he was nuts during the interview, as I cannot believe someone like that falls through the cracks.

Uhhh... soo you were there & know for a fact that someone at the recruiting centre didn't do his job properly?

It's an bewildering thing to see the variety of people who show up on our doorstep, asking to be let in... 
Some people show their colours at day 1
Some people have learnt to hide their colours ... but it always comes out - sooner or later.

 

[kincanucks]

And what skills are you expecting a military career counselor to have that would enable pronouncing someone "bat-crap-crazy" during a recruiting interview?  I am quite certain if he was drooling and chanting throughout the interview it would have been noted. 

Try to imagine the crap that would arise if someone thought their application was turned down because some recruiter decided they weren't right in the head.  Read the forums here, we can't even get people to understand that their serious medical problems are rational grounds for denying their presumed "right" to serve, even after they've been formally refused.

+1

I could see it now. "I am sorry Mr. Bloggins but I think you are completely off your rocker and therefore I m denying your application."  If I had that ability while in recruiting there would be a few less problems in the CF right now.

 

[George Wallace]

All that and no bells went off? But someone who teaches English in Japan for a year gets put through the ringer and waits for 2 years for the check to come back? It seems that things are done in a half-assed manner or extremely anal and thorough; common sense never coming into the equation. :rage:

'Just going back to this.

The above shows a lack of knowledge of what actually happens in these "Checks".  First off, there are different agreements between the Governments of Japan and Canada, and those between the Governments of Canada and the UK.  On one hand you may have very cooperative links between Police and Intelligence agencies of the Commonwealth countries, and none or very little between non-Commonwealth nations.  Sadly, if there is no way to confirm a person's records in a foreign nation, then that person is "on hold" for a long time, until such records can be produced, verified or cleared. 

Second; nothing is done half-assed.  Yes they have to be anal and thorough.  What do you expect of a Security Check?  Or perhaps you figure we should just hand out automatic weapons and control of artillery pieces to any Joe Blow on the street?  Think about it.  You are talking about the Security of the Nation, not a job at Micky D's.

:

 

[Col.Steiner]

And what skills are you expecting a military career counselor to have that would enable pronouncing someone "bat-crap-crazy" during a recruiting interview?  I am quite certain if he was drooling and chanting throughout the interview it would have been noted. 

Try to imagine the crap that would arise if someone thought their application was turned down because some recruiter decided they weren't right in the head.  Read the forums here, we can't even get people to understand that their serious medical problems are rational grounds for denying their presumed "right" to serve, even after they've been formally refused.

They can turn down your application if they simply do not like your face! I have read the forums and the medical problems you speak of have nothing to do with what I said. What do you think the officer interview is all about? It is because you made it that far based on the right paperwork, but the interview is where they wean out the undesirables. And that can be capricious.

 

[Col.Steiner]

'Just going back to this.

The above shows a lack of knowledge of what actually happens in these "Checks".  First off, there are different agreements between the Governments of Japan and Canada, and those between the Governments of Canada and the UK.  On one hand you may have very cooperative links between Police and Intelligence agencies of the Commonwealth countries, and none or very little between non-Commonwealth nations.  Sadly, if there is no way to confirm a person's records in a foreign nation, then that person is "on hold" for a long time, until such records can be produced, verified or cleared. 

Second; nothing is done half-assed.  Yes they have to be anal and thorough.  What do you expect of a Security Check?  Or perhaps you figure we should just hand out automatic weapons and control of artillery pieces to any Joe Blow on the street?  Think about it.  You are talking about the Security of the Nation, not a job at Micky D's.

:

With all due respect Mr.Wallace, I have to say bullsh1t to that. You don't think things in the recruiting process happen in a half-*** fashion? Try the Montreal recruiting center versus the Calgary center. In Montreal I had the officer interview, bypassing the  pre-sec clearance entirely. Moving out west and having to 'transfer' my file, the recruiters  told me they were 'by the books' and decided to make me go through the pre-sec procedure that Montreal decided to skip.  Does that sound as if things are done in a consistant and even-handed fashion? I speak from personal experience, not out of my ***. Out of respect I will also not insult you by adding the rolling eyes to my post.
ps. I am not disenchanted with the CF at all, I just think the culture of bureaucracy in the recruiting process is a joke. They talk the talk, but I haven't seen any streamlining of my application. And I am certainly not just 'off the street', I was in the godamn reserves prior to my full time application. What are they expecting to find, that I was inducted into the Japanese Aum Shinrikyo terrorist cult whilst a teacher?

 

[Michael OLeary]

They can turn down your application if they simply do not like your face! I have read the forums and the medical problems you speak of have nothing to do with what I said. What do you think the officer interview is all about? It is because you made it that far based on the right paperwork, but the interview is where they wean out the undesirables. And that can be capricious.

You are confusing an interview process that is deliberately subjective with an expectation that recruiters should asses candidates' mental health.

 

[Col.Steiner]

Isn't the interview process part of the recruiting process? Seemed to me that i was the last step. The only thing I am trying to say is that the nut job should not have made it past the interview process. Sure, everything before that is paperwork and certainly no recruiter will have the time,training or know how to pick up on anything suggesting mental illness, nor would it be possible. The interview, a sit down, one on one with an educated person should be a good opportunity to see if things are as they should be, and is 'deliberately subjective' as you say . I am sure the guy didn't just decide one day he was the frickin' messiah.

 

[Remius]

With all due respect Mr.Wallace, I have to say bullsh1t to that. You don't think things in the recruiting process happen in a half-*** fashion? Try the Montreal recruiting center versus the Calgary center. In Montreal I had the officer interview, bypassing the  pre-sec clearance entirely. Moving out west and having to 'transfer' my file, the recruiters  told me they were 'by the books' and decided to make me go through the pre-sec procedure that Montreal decided to skip.  Does that sound as if things are done in a consistant and even-handed fashion? I speak from personal experience, not out of my ***. Out of respect I will also not insult you by adding the rolling eyes to my post.
ps. I am not disenchanted with the CF at all, I just think the culture of bureaucracy in the recruiting process is a joke. They talk the talk, but I haven't seen any streamlining of my application. And I am certainly not just 'off the street', I was in the godamn reserves prior to my full time application. What are they expecting to find, that I was inducted into the Japanese Aum Shinrikyo terrorist cult whilst a teacher?

Dude you need a reality check.  They didn't by-pass your pre-sec they just moved it to different stage of the process.  calgary has it right as the pre-sec can take a while (yes even if YOU chose to go to Japan) so why tie up valuable interview and medical space when you may not get cleared for 6 to 18 month and have to probably do it over again.  Also teh pre-sec has absolutely nothing to do with this guy's mental health issues.  George actually works closely with the recruiting system so be careful when you call BS to someone who might know more than you.  Your little experience with the recruiting world doesn't amount to much.

 

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Isn't the interview process part of the recruiting process? Seemed to me that i was the last step. The only thing I am trying to say is that the nut job should not have made it past the interview process. Sure, everything before that is paperwork and certainly no recruiter will have the time,training or know how to pick up on anything suggesting mental illness, nor would it be possible. The interview, a sit down, one on one with an educated person should be a good opportunity to see if things are as they should be, and is 'deliberately subjective' as you say . I am sure the guy didn't just decide one day he was the frickin' messiah.

..and when you have as many years as I have dealing with those with a variety of mental illnesses you will find out that, yes, one day he just may have decided that.

The onset of mental illness can be just like the onset of cancer, etc,....NO ONE gets to pick where and when it may effect someone.

 

[George Wallace]

OberstSteiner

Just to add to Crantor's reply, the pre-sec procedure is a very time consuming and labour intensive job for a small number of personnel to do.  Your pre-sec procedure was probably left to last in Montreal, like it is in Ottawa, because they have found it impractical to initialize Security Screenings on people who may fail the Medical, CFAT, Educational Requirements, Citizenship, or a number or other tests to join the CF.  Take for example; if you had failed your Medical, then someone would be wasting valuable time doing a Security Check on you, when they could be doing one on someone who had passed all the other entry requirements.

 

[armyvern]

With all due respect Mr.Wallace, I have to say bullsh1t to that. You don't think things in the recruiting process happen in a half-*** fashion? Try the Montreal recruiting center versus the Calgary center. In Montreal I had the officer interview, bypassing the  pre-sec clearance entirely. Moving out west and having to 'transfer' my file, the recruiters  told me they were 'by the books' and decided to make me go through the pre-sec procedure that Montreal decided to skip.  Does that sound as if things are done in a consistant and even-handed fashion? I speak from personal experience, not out of my ***. Out of respect I will also not insult you by adding the rolling eyes to my post.
ps. I am not disenchanted with the CF at all, I just think the culture of bureaucracy in the recruiting process is a joke. They talk the talk, but I haven't seen any streamlining of my application. And I am certainly not just 'off the street', I was in the godamn reserves prior to my full time application. What are they expecting to find, that I was inducted into the Japanese Aum Shinrikyo terrorist cult whilst a teacher?

And you're going Officer??

No worries ... I'll add them:  :

Gawd help us ... may attitudes such as yours be the minority -- the "I'M SPECIAL & DESERVE STREAMLINING" attitude --- perhaps your interviewer picked up on that?? 

Word up -- you are not special despite your protestations otherwise, nor is a single one of us in this Team.

 

[BinRat55]

Isn't the interview process part of the recruiting process? Seemed to me that i was the last step. The only thing I am trying to say is that the nut job should not have made it past the interview process. ... The interview, a sit down, one on one with an educated person should be a good opportunity to see if things are as they should be, and is 'deliberately subjective' as you say . I am sure the guy didn't just decide one day he was the frickin' messiah.

Hmmm... how does it go, "Can't see the forest for the trees."?  I believe Theodore Bundy was almost a State Senator, wasn't he?  Actually had a part time job as a suicide counselor, didn't he?  Understand that ANYONE can talk a good game if they are trying.  Just because they are educated (again, Bundy was a call from the bar away from hanging a shingle) does NOT mean they cannot be insane, emotionally disturbed, troubled or even stoned!!  The interview process is what it is - an interview.  Basic training, past medical files (reviewed by proper authorities) and incidents will tell the tale.

 

[Col.Steiner]

And you're going Officer??

No worries ... I'll add them:  :

Gawd help us ... may attitudes such as yours be the minority -- the "I'M SPECIAL & DESERVE STREAMLINING" attitude --- perhaps your interviewer picked up on that?? 

Word up -- you are not special despite your protestations otherwise, nor is a single one of us in this Team.

I never said I wanted or demanded streamlining ArmyVern! But after nearly five fucking years and not a hell of a lot of progress in my file, I would think that is not quite right. I would think that your term 'special' however, does apply to my file! Give me a break with your team crap, i can't stand cliches.

 

[Michael OLeary]

Folks, we're done here for now.  If some new facts arise on the original issue the thread can be reopened.  Do not be surprised when any of your posts disappear if a Moderator cleans this thread to focus on the original discussion.

Milnet.ca Staff