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London attacks underscore Canada's need to be in Afghanistan: Hillier

54/102 CEF:

Are you actually comparing Hillier to Nazis whipping up anti-semetic sentiments in pre-war Germany? That's what I got from this:

54/102 CEF said:
Here's another insight - in the years before WW2 both Germany and Japan indoctrinated their youth with a seething violent nationalism which we know erupted as their invading armies.

and as foar as this goes:

54/102 CEF said:
Think of how the Hells Angels have been taken down in recent years -

I don't know if you know this or not, but the H A are alive and well. Most of the BC bud industry, for instance, is run by them, with strong ties to the coke cartels of Central America. The H A is the single largest organized crime outfit in Canada, they have certainly not been 'taken down'.

The fact is this: to the point comments about what we are facing is preferable to the meaningless rambling coming out of 99% of the talking heads in Ottawa. How the f** do we expect civilian Canadians to take the threat seriously if no-one tells them of the threat in plain terms? Or calls them what they are (scumbags intead of 'disenchanted, misunderstood Muslims')?
 
"it's nice to be able to cheer for a CDS once in a while, rather than whine about him, don't you think?"

Very true
 
Retired CC said:
I don't think the impact of the General's bluntness on the morale of many serving troops can be overlooked - it's nice to be able to cheer for a CDS once in a while, rather than whine about him, don't you think?

100%

 
Last time I checked the political side made rapport with the man in the street - so maybe you can tell us all where the General's mandate to whip up "shoot'em up" comments like that comes from.

Rapport is great, if you want to be re-elected.  If you want to communicate a message, and those with the "rapport" aren't doing it, you have to do it yourself.

The army doesn't need people to love it.  It needs people to understand it.
 
MGen Andy's prediction of 10 body bags

In my humble opinion, I don't think comments like that are appropriate at all from senior leadership. As soldiers we already know the risk and are (should be) mentally prepared for it. The general populace probably reads the article, then goes on with their day not giving a second thought.

What comments like this really do is cause undue stress on families and friends of the troops deploying. They know there's a risk, and they worry about it, but comments like this that make the soldiers look like beans in the CF's bean-counter mentality does not help at all with the families coping with the mission.

Just my 2c Canadian... tax free!
 
Teddy Ruxpin said:
I nearly choked on my breakfast at the General's "kill people" quote on Canada AM this morning... Good to hear... ;D

The public needed to hear that. We are trained to kill and be killed if we must. I belive that the public has forgot that.

I am glad the CDS, told the public that.

Hears to you Sir :salute:

McNutt

 
It is nice.  To hear someone finally say something in true everyday terms. It is this kind of persona who will fight for us because he isn't showing the signs of being a political patsy


I hate doublespeak. I think the country need plain talk instead of niceities. CBC radio had a good show dedicated to being nice. And there is a difference to being nice and speaking in plain harsh language. we came off to nice.

Example nice.

We cannot expect the Canadian public to seriously feel the danger of the outside world unless those threats are clearly mandated and presented to them in an open fourm.

Or in Ceasars plain and hard hitting quote

" How the f** do we expect civilian Canadians to take the threat seriously if no-one tells them of the threat in plain terms"

 
We also have to stop the tough talk rhetoric.   One thing you learn in this business is, don't say it unless you're going to do it.   In this part of the world, strength matters.   And if you say you are going to go in and wipe them out, you better do it.   If you say you're going to do it and then you back off and find another solution, you have lost face.   And we have got to stop the kind of bravado and talk that only leads us into trouble out there.   We need to be more serious and more mature in what we project as an image. Our whole public relations effort out there has been a disaster

What evidence is there that, in a Canadian and Afghan context, this is occuring?   How do you know that we're not going to go in and wipe the Taliban (and assorted Al Qaida straphangers) out?   Coalition commanders in our theatre - four star on down - talk tough every day and back it up every day.   I don't see where "backing off" has come into the picture in the least - especially in Afghanistan.   If you have experience to the contrary, let's hear it.

Frankly, I am stunned (in a good way) that finally a CDS has come right out and said - gloves off - what the military is for and what we will be doing in S. Afghanistan.   Canadians have been delusional for decades about what the CF is for and how we operate and, hopefully, this is the first of many steps in the "re-education" process.   If it takes calling some terrorist bastards "scumbags", so be it.   They are.

Judging by the responses here, from a variety of rank levels, trades, experience levels and services, I think the CDS has struck a chord amongst serving members.   I, for one, am looking forward to hearing more of the same.
 
Another beaut' from Hillier. If you liked the 'murderous scumbags' comment, you'll love this....

Reporters familiar with Hillier's style barely flinched when he said all elements of the Canadian Forces need to be revamped, including the part where "you go out and bayonet somebody."

"We are not the Public Service of Canada," he declared. "We are not just another department. We are the Canadian Forces and our job is to be able to kill people."


http://www.canada.com/news/national/story.html?id=56d27923-32f4-41dd-b6dd-7a77563c5bd6

It's like he is a soldier or something?!?!

Here's the whole article (some of this appeared in the earlier article, but most of this is new). Interesting in it's own right....

OTTAWA (CP) - If Canadians were shocked that the head of their military called his enemy "detestable murderers and scumbags," they better get used to it. Gen. Rick Hillier has never minced words, nor is he likely to start any time soon.

His blunt assessment of terrorists in Afghanistan and elsewhere this week has the wholehearted backing of the prime minister.

"General Hillier is not only a top soldier, he is a soldier who has served in Afghanistan," Paul Martin said Friday in Nova Scotia.

"The point he is simply making is we are at war with terrorism and we're not going to let them win."

Defence Minister Bill Graham's office refused Friday to soften or explain the comments of its top soldier.

No "clarification" will be forthcoming, said spokesman Steven Jurgutis.

"I can certainly understand that there may be people who are concerned with the tone of his statements," said Jurgutis.

But he said Hillier "has certainly been a fairly straight-talking individual throughout his career.

"I wouldn't say this represents a change in attitude."

Defence analysts and soldiers alike lauded Hillier's appointment as chief of defence staff earlier this year as a fundamental shift in the Canadian military.

Known as a soldier's soldier, Hillier is the most operationally experienced commander to take the top post in many years, breaking the bureaucratic mould that seemed to dictate many appointments since the Cold War.

Born in the outport of Campbellton on Newfoundland's north coast, Hillier doesn't attempt to cover a Scottish-Irish lilt that turns "Afghanistan" into "haffghanistan" and "horse" into "orse."

One factor in Hillier's promotion was his fearlessness and penchant for calling things as he sees them.

The defence minister was looking for a new vision for the Canadian Forces and, in Hillier, he got it.

A defence policy statement released in April charted a whole new course for defence - much of it adhering to Hillier's direction.

His current list of requests for interviews is at about 50, so this week the general with the reddish-blond moustache held an informal, on-the-record media luncheon. Audiotapes were OK, cameras were banned.

Reporters familiar with Hillier's style barely flinched when he said all elements of the Canadian Forces need to be revamped, including the part where "you go out and bayonet somebody."

"We are not the Public Service of Canada," he declared. "We are not just another department. We are the Canadian Forces and our job is to be able to kill people."

The terrorist bombings in London underscore the need to take the fight to the enemy in failed states where they have room to thrive, said Hillier.

As a Western society that values rights and freedoms, Canada is already in conflict with "what people like Osama bin Laden, Mullah Omar and those others want."

"These are detestable murderers and scumbags," Hillier said. "They detest our freedoms, they detest our society, they detest our liberties."

It's time for Canada to take a stand, he said, just as it did 66 years ago when it joined the Second World War against the Nazis, whom he described as "those despicable, murderous bastards."

The Polaris Institute, a left-leaning think tank based in Ottawa, said Friday the defence minister needs to "clarify" Hillier's "very alarming" comments.

"His use of epithets such as 'scumbags' and 'killers' is reminiscent of language used by (U.S.) President (George W.) Bush and U.S. Defence Secretary Donald Rumsfeld," said project director Steven Staples.

Taken alongside recent defence policy changes and an increase in the defence budget, Staples said they "show an unmistakable trend toward the Americanization of the Canadian Forces."

Jurgutis noted that Canada was already listed as a terrorist target and he doubted Hillier's comments would change matters.

Al-Qaida leader Osama bin Laden declared Canada a "legitimate target" in March 2004.

Adrian Gordon, executive director of the Centre for Emergency Preparedness, gave a qualified endorsement of Hillier's blunt talk.

"Part of me agrees with that, part of me says that's true," Gordon said in an interview from Burlington, Ont.

"But at the same time, if we're really going to deal with this problem and have a hope of putting an end to terrorism, then we have to work towards understanding the root causes, which go much deeper than current events in Iraq and Afghanistan."



Quote from article:

'His use of epithets such as 'scumbags' and 'killers' is reminiscent of language used by (U.S.) President (George W.) Bush and U.S. Defence Secretary Donald Rumsfeld," said project director Steven Staples'

So, were in line with our thinking to that of our allies....what's the problem? For a guy who works at a 'think-tank', you'd think he'd do a little more thinking....

Good stuff all around by our esteemed CDS.






 
I have a distinct feeling that Gen Hillier intimidates our politicians. That, or they really are on board, finally.

I honestly don't think he'll let them back of the K'har deployment, and the aggressive ass-kicking style he sees for 1-06. If they try it, the sh*t-storm he'll publically raise will be spectacular.

All I can say is: I have 20+ years in and - FINALLY!!

Acorn
 
'His use of epithets such as 'scumbags' and 'killers' is reminiscent of language used by (U.S.) President (George W.) Bush and U.S. Defence Secretary Donald Rumsfeld," said project director Steven Staples'

The Polaris Institute, a left-leaning think tank based in Ottawa, said Friday the defence minister needs to "clarify" Hillier's "very alarming" comments

I see that CP - in the standard journalistic gambit to create conflict - managed to find that intellectual giant Steven Staples to weigh in with these incisive observations.  Personally I think we should "clarify" if the Polaris Institute receives public money - and cut if off.

My own little rant over.

cheers, mdh
 
The Polaris Institute, a left-leaning think tank based in Ottawa, said Friday the defence minister needs to "clarify" Hillier's "very alarming" comments.

Who gives a flying F**K what Steven Staples and his pack of left-wing clowns has to say about this...They're not involved!

Hey Mr Staples...How does it feel to be irrelevant!?

Its about time! :cdn: :salute:

 
Retired CC said:
it's nice to be able to cheer for a CDS once in a while, rather than whine about him, don't you think?

I agree!  ;) We`ll do well with him.
 
Americazation of the Canadian forces eh?  What "intelectuals" like this fail to grasp is that there has never been much difference in the basic attitude of Canadian and American soldiers.  The whole Peacekeeper persona was just a convinient facade which past governments could use to hide our nature from the public.  Wether or not Steven likes it, Gen. Hillier is absolutely right;  our job is to be ready to kill people, and it always has been.  The only difference is that now we have someone willing to stand up and tell the truth instead of feeding the public what he thinks they want to hear.  Like Slim said, it's about time.
 
54/102 CEF said:
I agree!  ;) We`ll do well with him.

54/102 CEF:

What's this?  A change of heart? 

Given your handle, I assume you are from somewhere in BC (the home of the 54th (Kootenay) and 102nd (Northern British Columbia) Battalions of the CEF).  If my geographical assumption is correct, have you partaken of some of your province's most famous crop, and thus mellowed out??  :)

Please, all kidding aside, what did bring about your change of heart?  Hopefully not the overwhelming preponderance of support for the CDS found on this forum?  This is, after all, a forum populated with serving and retired soldiers/airmen/sailors - their unequivocal support for "plain talking", although in agreement with my own sentiments, in no way should be taken as indicative of Canadian public opinion as a whole.

What gives??

 
Retired CC said:
54/102 CEF:

What's this?   A change of heart?  

Given your handle, I assume you are from somewhere in BC (the home of the 54th (Kootenay) and 102nd (Northern British Columbia) Battalions of the CEF).   If my geographical assumption is correct, have you partaken of some of your province's most famous crop, and thus mellowed out??   :)

I`m on the Canadian side - but I vote for the walk softly and carry a big stick idea - a proven approach.

I`m down in Ottawa and the only smoke I smell is the fumes coming out of NDHQ

My little contribution is these 3 famous Cdn Army sites

www.donlowconcrete.com/CDAC

www.donlowconcrete.com/102

http://apollon_2.tripod.com

You are all cordially invited to visit these sites!
 
The Polaris Institute, a left-leaning think tank based in Ottawa, said Friday the defence minister needs to "clarify" Hillier's "very alarming" comments.

"His use of epithets such as 'scumbags' and 'killers' is reminiscent of language used by (U.S.) President (George W.) Bush and U.S. Defence Secretary Donald Rumsfeld," said project director Steven Staples.

Taken alongside recent defence policy changes and an increase in the defence budget, Staples said they "show an unmistakable trend toward the Americanization of the Canadian Forces."

It has begun, the whining of the lib-left crowd.  Like I said in another post, the CDS comments were going to get some people all bent out of shape.  

But what exactly needs clarification?  Nothing, he spoke pretty clearly and concisely as far as I read.  These nitwits should just come out and say the minister needs to spin a more PC tone for the CDS, which the PM and the minister have already refused to do.  And is Mr Staples worried someone might be offended if we start calling a spade a spade.  Someone needs to send these people some pams/documents outlining what the primary role of the combat arms trades are (Specifically the Infantry).  Maybe the CDS while he is at can reword the primary mission of the infantry from "close with and destroy" to "get close and kill" just so there is no confusion on anyones part.
 
54/102 CEF said:
I`m on the Canadian side - but I vote for the walk softly and carry a big stick idea - a proven approach.

Really cause I was under the impression that, that line of thinking was what enabled past governments into brainwashing the majority of the public into thinking we are "peacekeepers" and which allowed them to cut military spending. ::)
 
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