Infantry wearing black berets?

[Fishbone Jones]

CFL,
Go over to Michael Dorash's site. It's explained there.

 

[Michael Dorosh]

Why not just rebadge them to LdSH, though?  Seems silly.

And "brown" is actually "khaki" - it was introduced in 1943 and worn until after the Korean War - full details, as noted by recceguy (thanks!) are on my site www.canadiansoldiers.com - click on uniforms, then berets.

Direct link -

http://www.canadiansoldiers.com/uniforms/berets.htm

 

[Michael Dorosh]

Mmmm - having said that, I wasn't aware the black beret was "lost" after unification.  Any details on that would be of interest to me.  War stories and all!

 

[Fishbone Jones]

In '71 I had two berets. A green CF one for wear with my Greens and a black one for wear with combats. Our beloved black beret could only be worn when wearing combats. All other times we wore the green one, or the forage cap, or the fur hat, or.... :

 

[George Wallace]

In '71 I had two berets. A green CF one for wear with my Greens and a black one for wear with combats. Our beloved black beret could only be worn when wearing combats. All other times we wore the green one, or the forage cap, or the fur hat, or.... :

Come on...Dave, I know you had the Ball Cap also.    ;D



And probably that hybrid Ball Cap with the Fur flaps..... ;D

 

[Gunner98]

Michael

I had a momentary lapse and forgot you were the mind behind canadian soldiers website.  I hope you don't mind the referral.  The site is a great source of info.

...Gunner98 slowly slides back to the darkened rear area where he belongs...

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Yeah, and the Texaco ball cap.  Boy, those days really sucked.

 

[Michael Dorosh]

An interesting history on the beret in the CF can be found at:  http://www.canadiansoldiers.com/uniforms/berets.htm  A long standing wish of many Gunners and some Engineers would be to return to the midnight blue berets of the past.

oops - didn't notice this the first time through.

Coloured Field Service Caps would be an intersting thing to bring back, too.

 

[MJP]

My question is: if they are Posted out of the Bn, why do they still take part in Bn activities and pay Regimental Dues?  Do the guys posted to the Schools have to pay Regimental Dues?  It should be the same.

They still pay Mafia....uhh regimental dues even when posted to schools or elsewhere.  Most of the larger areas usually get together once a year (17 Mar) for broom-i-loo and other goings on.

 

[Spr.Earl]

Er do I hear Remuster?
Oh never mind,just thinking out loud. :

 

[a_majoor]

Most people can and should suck it up; it is the cap badge that counts, nor what you pin it to.

That being said, this is the sort of thing which could lead to digruntled troops and bitter inter-corps backbiting. Maybe this topic should be moved to one of the other threads about combined arms units/regiments or alternative formations.

(The other alternative is to raise "1 DFS Regt" and give everyone a new beret and capbadge, but I don't really want to go there  ).

 

[c4th]

Everyone in the army wears a green beret, unless your 011 armour(or in a armoured unit) or in a jump coy.

I wear a tam-o-shantern (balmoral) in cbts and a glengarry when in DEU.  Your 'everyone' is getting thin.

 

[aesop081]

..... Your 'everyone' is getting thin.

It was thin to begin with. An uninformed statement cannot get any better with time.

 

[Michael OLeary]

Mmmm - having said that, I wasn't aware the black beret was "lost" after unification.  Any details on that would be of interest to me.  War stories and all!

I can't add to the evolution of berets of the unification era, but on a side note, I recently acquired a "CF Green" wedge cap, complete with RCR buttons and badge from the same period.

 

[Teddy Ruxpin]

Well, here's what I have:

In the early 1970s, dissatisfaction with the green (known as CF) service dress was growing.  The only corps or regimental insignia worn were the cap and the collar badges, and once the cap and the tunic were removed no one could distinguish between a tanker, a submariner or an avionics technician.  The first crack in the dam of such uniform uniforms was the re-introduction of regimental buttons, followed in 1976 by the officially sanctioned return of the black beret, which had never entirely gone away, whatever regulations may have stipulated!  Prior to unification the black beret had been one of two choices of headdress.  Officers generally wore the army service dress cap while in service dress; the berets were usually, but not exclusively worn in the field.  In heartfelt relief at the return of the black beret, the Corps decreed it to be the only authorized headdress for all orders of dress.

John Marteinson and Michael R. McNorgan,The Royal Canadian Armoured Corps:  An Illustrated History, RCAC Association/Canadian War Museum, 2000, pp 382-383

One (probably untrue) story I was told as a young subbie was that the unit in Germany in 1976, the RCD, held a parade when the beret was brought back.  Everyone lined, placed their CF forage cap on the ground and, on order, took one step forward and crushed the hats into the parade square.  As I said, its likely untrue, but is an interesting mental picture!!

Cheers,

TR

 

[Michael OLeary]

The only corps or regimental insignia worn were the cap and the collar badges, and once the cap and the tunic were removed no one could distinguish between a tanker, a submariner or an avionics technician.

I believe the earliest iteration of CF greens did not even include regimental or branch collar dogs. Course photos at the Staff College in Kingston show the first courses in CFs with no collar insignia. I will try to remember to note the years that CF uniforms first appeared in the photos and changes to accoutrements after that.

 

[NATO Boy]

Most people can and should suck it up

..but in my case, I feel it's the trade that counts, not what hat it comes with. As a member of the infantry, you represent the tip of the spear and the other trades are your backup; in the end, it's the infanteer who takes the trench, who storms the house, who raids enemy ground. Don't let some headdress foolery make you forget that.

 

[Old Sweat]

Michael O' is correct in that the earliest versions of the CF uniform on general issue did not include collar badges. I changed from army brown to CF green in 1970 prior to going to Staff College in Kingston and did not wear anything that would identify me as a gunner except for the badge on my CF cap (and, of course, my good looks and that well known artillery asset, humility). During the course the GSO1 at the college appeared wearing corps collar badges which had just been approved.

For whatever it is worth, the decision had been made circa 1971-1972 to go for a single cap badge based on the CF crest, and these were procured and in the supply system. The plan was vetoed by Jadex, the new CDS as one of his first acts. As an indication of how loopy things were at the time, the clothing and dress committee then canvassed the various branches to see which were in favour of a common badge. When the results were in, that august body proposed to the CDS that the branches in favour of a common badge should adopt the CF crest. This idea was stillborn.

You should understand that things were in a considerable state of flux and administrative regulations were still be re-written on a single service basis. It was felt that it would not be wise to try to adopt a policy or procedure that had been used by one of the old services. As a result, some rather strange things made their way into CFAOs until someone realized that the reason for not doing it this way in the old days was that, well, wait for it, because there were better (often at least three) ways of doing things.

 

[Recce41]

HEY NATO Boy
In every other Army TANKS lead. Tanks were the ones that were on the  a couple of the beachs first on D Day. The British  DD tanks on Gold and the western part of Juno made it first. As for beret colours. Arty wore Blue, Inf wore rifle green, brown, blk and red. Armour- blk , maroon, Armour Recce -Tan. Engs- blue. So colour does not really matter for the inf. Soon, the PPCLI and others will return to the Btl and the Strats will take over.

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

I'm not intirely sure that "Soon, the PPCLI and others will return to the Btl and the Strats will take over." will be all that quick.