How about forming a Reg Force Kilted Regiment

[Crane Driver]

Lets get some real tradition going.  Form a kilted regiment for the CF.  We could start by moving 3000 head office positions from Ottawa out and get some more feet on the ground.  Too many Rotos for too few personnel.

http://forums.army.ca/forums/Smileys/Armyca/bagpipe.gif

 

[Towards_the_gap]

:

Sure, there's plenty of money lying around for that....Did you not notice we are at war? There are more important things than giving people nice different uniforms for the hell of it.

Nice first post though.

 

[The Bread Guy]

Lets get some real tradition going.

As opposed to the faux traditions that have built up until now?

What Towards_the_gap said.....

 

[boboyer]

As opposed to the faux traditions that have built up until now?

Was just about to say.....

 

[dapaterson]

Hmm.  Too many Rotos for too few personnel.  CF Reg F TES: 56 000.  One Roto: 2800.  If we can't sustain 5% deployed then we're a fraud.

Oh, but we're drawing 20% of the deployed strength from the Reserves, so it's closer to 4% of the Reg F deployed.


On the other hand, in these times where we're looknig to save money, standing up a unit with no requirement for or entitlement to underwear would save some money; perhaps a business case could be made.

 

[Redeye]

Did I miss something about the kilt being essential to tradition?

We have plenty of kilted regiments with great traditions, in the Reserve.  That's fine.  I can't see a single valid reason to shuffle things around, when Reg F battalions have their own share of "real" traditions and history and so on.  Sure, it'll get someone the "leading change" PER bubble, but not exactly a priority.

 

[dangerboy]

If we did magically have the available pers to form a new unit, I would rather see them diverted to the 9 already formed Battalions.  We could bring them up to full strength, bring back the 4th Rifle Coy and bring back the support Pls. But this is just a pipe dream.

 

[OldSolduer]

While we're at it, lets get a Reg Force Rifle Regiment stood up too......just sayin.........

 

[Edward Campbell]

Been there, done that - circa 1951/53 when 1st Canadian Infantry Battalion, 1st Canadian Highland Battalion and 1st Canadian Rifle Battalion were formed. They later became the Canadian Guards, the Black Watch and the Queen's Own Rifles.

 

[OldSolduer]

Been there, done that - circa 1951/53 when 1st Canadian Infantry Battalion, 1st Canadian Highland Battalion and 1st Canadian Rifle Battalion were formed. They later became the Canadian Guards, the Black Watch and the Queen's Own Rifles.

Yes I am aware that we had Reg Force regiments like that.

Maybe a Mess Tin Repair Company?  ;D

 

[dapaterson]

On a more serious note:

Kilted regiments were stood up in Canada as an attempt to pander to ethnic groups to encourage them to enlist.  It was effective in WWI and WWII. 

With the changes to Canada's ethnic composition, we don't need more kilts, but rather we need to adopt othe elements to attract non-traditional groups to the CF.

It would probably be much better (from a recruiting and personnel sustainment perspective) to stand up a Sikh regiment based out west, than to add YABOGIS*.




(*YABOGIS - Yet Another Bunch Of Guys In Skirts)

 

[chrisf]

On the subject of tradtions...

A room contains a researcher and a small stool. Hanging over the stool is a banana on a string. The researcher wears a white lab-coat and holds a fully pressurized fire-hose. An arbitrary number of monkeys is released into the room.

Sooner or later one of them will make for the stool to try and grab the banana. Yet as soon as that monkey climbs the stool and approaches his prize, the researcher lets him have it with the hose. And not only does that monkey get it, but all monkeys in the room (whether they touched the banana or not) get sprayed. After soaking them roughly for a few moments, the researcher turns off the hose.

Perhaps another monkey gets brave or hungry. When he climbs the stool and touches the banana, the researcher lets him have it. And as before, all the monkeys also get doused, whether they moved towards the banana or not. Repeat this process enough and, after the group has suffered enough soakings, the following effect should be noticed: Should any monkey make for the stool, the rest can be counted on to beat him silly before he reaches either it or the banana, sparing themselves. After awhile, the group avoids the banana even as their bellies growl.

Now say the researcher removes a monkey and brings in a new one to replace him. No big surprise, one of his first actions might be to make directly for the banana. And of course the others won't allow this, for if he should make it they all get sprayed again. They administer a beating to the confused newcomer, until he learns not to near the stool.

Should the experiment continue, perhaps after replacing every monkey in the original generation, one can even remove the researcher. The descendants enforce the social order even though they may never been sprayed or even know about the researcher. By now no monkeys have directly experienced the hose, and in fact no white-coated danger exists, yet still their options are self-curtailed. There is no risk in the banana. Yet they avoid it, none quite certain why.

This is the origin of traditions.

 

[FoverF]

Do we have enough Nepalese-Canadians to muster a Gurkha Bn?

In all seriousness, I actually do support having units with ethnic affiliations. I can say for certain that nearly every member of my extended family has at least given consideration to joining our familial regiment, and several have enlisted/been commissioned (probably more would have enlisted if it were a Reg Force unit, as it's rather inconvenient to relocate to Winnipeg to join a part-time unit).

Having a military unit established for *you* and *your people* puts the idea of joining into one's head, kind of a 'foot in the door' if you will for recruiters. Even when the units aren't strictly segregated, and there's no guarantee of being posted to that unit, it still provides the notion that there is a place for you in the military, that you are wanted somewhere.

Just my  :2c:

 

[Newt]

Do we have enough Nepalese-Canadians to muster a Gurkha Bn?

In all seriousness, I actually do support having units with ethnic affiliations. I can say for certain that nearly every member of my extended family has at least given consideration to joining our familial regiment, and several have enlisted/been commissioned (probably more would have enlisted if it were a Reg Force unit, as it's rather inconvenient to relocate to Winnipeg to join a part-time unit).

Having a military unit established for *you* and *your people* puts the idea of joining into one's head, kind of a 'foot in the door' if you will for recruiters. Even when the units aren't strictly segregated, and there's no guarantee of being posted to that unit, it still provides the notion that there is a place for you in the military, that you are wanted somewhere.

Just my  :2c:

That is some serious Trudeau era BS. Units with ethnic affiliations would only weaken army cohesion. What happens when the Duke of Kent's Croatian Rifles are paired up on ex with the Toronto Serbian Dragoons? I know that's not a likely example, but you have to keep in mind that a lot of ethnic groups have come to Canada to get away from the strife being inflicted upon them by other ethnic groups. These ethnic grudges aren't always left behind once they get their citizenship cards. Instead of reinforcing the concept of hyphenated Canadians we need to encourage being Canadian (whatever that means).
 

 

[Redeye]

Cpl Mark McLaren, who was KIA in Afghanistan on 5 Dec 2008, was of a rather unusual ethnic mix, being half-Scottish and half-Chinese.  (his nickname while in the Reserve was Chinaman, variations followed him to The RCR).  He mused that some day when he was rich he was going to raise his own Regiment, The Queen's Own Chinese Highlanders.

I'll echo the sentiment as a thought experiment, though, that the emergence of units that reflect greater ethnic diversity in Canada, especially in Reserve units who draw heavily from a local community, is interesting indeed.  Such regiments need not being exclusive.  A survey of the ranks of the Black Watch, the Argylls, the 48th, the Tor Scots, etc would reveal plenty of members whose ancestry lies anywhere but Scotland, but who are still borne of pride in their traditions.

 

[FoverF]

That is some serious Trudeau era BS. Units with ethnic affiliations would only weaken army cohesion....

Instead of reinforcing the concept of hyphenated Canadians we need to encourage being Canadian (whatever that means).
 

So we should get rid of the Highland regiments, because they reinforce the concept of 'Scottish-Canadians'?

 

[Blackadder1916]

On the subject of tradtions...

A room contains a researcher and a small stool. Hanging over the stool is a banana on a string sheep. The researcher wears a white lab-coat and holds a fully pressurized fire-hose. An arbitrary number of monkeys  Scotsmen are released into the room.

Sooner or later one of them will make for the stool to try and grab the banana sheep. Yet as soon as that monkey Scotsman climbs the stool and approaches his prize, the researcher lets him have it with the hose. And not only does that monkey Scotsman get it, but all monkeys Scotsmen in the room (whether they touched the banana sheep or not) get sprayed. After soaking them roughly for a few moments, the researcher turns off the hose.

Perhaps another monkey gets brave or hungry. When he climbs the stool and touches the banana, the researcher . . .
All the Scotsmen turn on the researcher and pound the crap out of him and then fight among themselves to see who gets the sheep. There are three factions among the Scotsmen; those who want the sheep for a meal, those who want to convert the sheep to a musical instrument and those who want the sheep for a bride.

This is the origin of highland traditions.

Amended to better reflect the topic.

 

[Newt]

So we should get rid of the Highland regiments, because they reinforce the concept of 'Scottish-Canadians'?

Personally, I have no real attachment the concept of Highland regiments. My heritage is Scottish, one of my great-grandfathers served in a Highland regiment, but I have no real calling to serve in a Highland regiment myself.

What if the Scottish traditions of the Highland regiments is actually discouraging enrollment in those units based on erroneous perceptions that you must be Scottish-Canadian to join?

Instead of generating affinity by creating ethnic units we should be creating familiarity by being directly involved in the community. Get out of the armouries and demonstrate to new Canadians that the Canadian Forces are a valid and respectable organization. Is the local mosque organizing a food drive? Offer up an ML to transport food. Is the Sikh community centre preparing meals for a homeless shelter? Offer a field kitchen and some cooks (maybe the egg welders will learn some new recipes).



 

 

[Michael OLeary]

So we should get rid of the Highland regiments, because they reinforce the concept of 'Scottish-Canadians'?

That's as good a reason as any.    ;D 

(Impressment, recruiting, transportation and emigration ... the four horsemen of the apocalypse by which the British populated the world with the Gaelic peoples.) 

Anyway, back to the irreverence of the original topic .... Why don't we just convert one battalion of each Reg F infantry regiment to kilted dress. Second Battalions, anyone?

While we're at it, and just to be fair, we'll do the same to one armoured regiment, one regiment of artillery, one service battalion ..... and one third of the Directorates in NDHQ, who will wear a tartan designed by a tri-service committee.  >

 

[dapaterson]

2nd Bns all kilted? How ridiculous.

Make it the 3rd Bns.  I look forward to the kilted para companies, particularly jumping in for an arctic SovEx.