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Forces struggling to recruit...

One point I will like to make, if DND solves their Recruitment issue, where are they going to house all these new soldiers? Most will be single but some will have dependents. Housing in the Forces is limited for both single and married personel.
 
Guns,
Wasn't directing my wrath at you, just the theme in general that some people seem to have.

Folks,
We're the ones knocking on the CF's door, I don't seem to recall them knocking on mine....
 
Kirkhill said:
From Enfield.

Well, speaking for myself, if an employer told me that they might have a position available in 3,6 or 12 months my immediate reaction would be to politely say thankyou, inform them that I might still be interested in 3,6 or 12 months and then go look for another employer.   Funny things happen then, for example, people actually discovering that they can live without their previous dream employer and are quite happy with their new circumstances.

For the reserves, though, its not a career but a part time job. Things needs to tighten up.

As far as the Regs, my dad wanted in after 3 years Militia service, but there were no openings for gunners. He went into the oilpatch - seismic - and stayed there for 45 years instead.  Then retired for 4 months, and went back to work at age 65, still doing seismic.  They pay well, they apparently need his services, and I think him being on the road keeps mom sane.  ;D It worked out but he always wished he had stayed with the Militia too.
 
Springroll said:
Well I don't see it as a dumb thing to say. My question was totally legitimate. We(recruits) do not know if the CFRC would consider a family "baggage"...that is why I asked. It is better to have you clarify what you were saying than to assume something that isn't true, right?
A few on here still believe the "if the army wanted you to have a wife, they would have issued you one"....also, according the the human rights commission in April 2001, there were two female CF members who felt they were discriminated because they had a family.

Jennifer Smith of Trenton, Ontario alleges that her employer, the Canadian Forces, discriminated against her by failing to accommodate her on the basis of marital and family status. Ms. Smith, an administrative clerk with the Forces, is married to a Forces officer. She says the Forces repeatedly turned down her requests for a co-location posting with her husband. When she did eventually receive the co-location with her husband, he was soon transferred and the Forces again refused to transfer her.

Paula McInnis of Victoria alleges that her employer, the Department of National Defence, discriminated against her because of her sex, disability, and family and marital status and by failing to provide her with a harassment-free workplace. Ms. McInnis, who worked at DND as a technician, claims that male co-workers with less experience were sent on courses ahead of her, thus limiting her promotional opportunities. She also says her supervisor made derogatory comments about her, her husband and their family life. Ms. McInnis says that DND's managers made derogatory comments toward women and allowed the circulation of documents that were demeaning to women.


http://www.chrc-ccdp.ca/media_room/news_releases-en.asp?id=189&content_type=2

When I say baggage I am not including family, married or not, kids, or any other issue that would contravene the Human Rights Act when considering some one for a job and it was still a dumb thing to say.  Did the CF have problems?  Of course we did but I think we have done a very good job in getting rid of the dinosaurs/regulations that perpetuated these problems.
 
Springroll said:
I fully admit that part of the delay was me....with good reason too.
Still doesn't make it alright to be waiting anything over 6 months to get in.
That should not be the acceptable norm.

i did say SOME (your PT test is what i had in mind)...i give you that much credit, no problems......just so we are clear.

6 Months......do you know how long it takes to get a job as a intelligence officer at CSIS ?  6 months may seem a long time but its not that bad.  Should it be the norm ? not IMO but hey...you want the job or not ?

I agree with Kincanucks, the whole "losing good recruits"  thing is the rallying cry of the losers........

Those  who are ready, willing and able will see the process through.
 
Bruce Monkhouse said:
I still absolutely fail to grasp why some people think they are so important that others should jump just because they want something.

From the time I put my name in for my present occupation to the time I actually started was 14 months...........Did I whine and cry about it? No, I did something else and realized I just wasn't that important to them at the time, so bigwhoopin' deal, ....they finally called and 17 years later I'm still plying the same trade so I guess I was worth the wait. [and visa versa]

I myself, have now been waiting 10 months, going on 11, for just my criminal record check (fingerprints) to come back, and then ill have to wait longer to see how that turns out, although i am slightly discouraged that its taken this long, since i was given a timeline of 4-8months, it doesn't change the fact this is what i want to do, and to all you other people who are discouraged, if this is what you truly want to do in life.. a year... a year and half, the wait wont matter, the end result is all you care about and are focused on.

:cdn: Don't quit on your country, it isn't quitting on you. :cdn:
 
Alright....I'll wade in here and say my piece.

Springroll....your quote was about a serving member and administrative problems that she encountered, not recruiting.

Secondly, if there is a position available at the base where the posted spouse is being transferred to....the CF will accommodate the second spouse and post her as well.

If not, too bad and he's posted IR and gets a few extra bucks because of the distance between them. I've seen both scenarios and the members involved lived with it. It's called the Army for a reason.

As for the alleged harassment she encountered.....I won't touch that. 

Now onto the whole " recruiting center turning away good recruits...."

You are applying for a job that requires a certain skill set and as such there is a screening process involved.

Got a criminal record? That just made your getting in that much more complicated.

Yes it sucks that in some cases it may take a few months....again remember, you applied to the CF and they didn't knock on your door.

There are circumstances with some perspective recruits that they will take more time than others...as do other civvy employers as was alluded to earlier.

Don't like waiting? You'll hate the CF then.

In the late 80s I had to wait about 5 months to get in to the local reserve unit...and I was checking in every 2 weeks like clock work.

When I got in back in the early 90's into the Regs I had PCFs up the wazoo....light track, Cougar driver and gunner, Recce Crewcommander, Leopard driver....the list goes on and on. My security clearances were good and up to date as well.

I waited 2 months...a long time back in those days, and remember I was already a serving member in the reserves with oodles of B Class time under my belt.

It takes time to get in.

Some people get picked up right away because they have skills that are required and need filling right away....Medical Officers for instance. If an applicant comes in with a background in medicine and is a practicing doctor...think the CF will take a recruit who is " willing to learn " over the doctor?

Nope.

Regards
 
funny thing: just got a shipment of FNGs on the weekend. For shits and giggles, I asked them how long it took from application to St Jean. Average grouping was 6 - 9 months, with a few flyers. Same as me 11 years ago. Funny, that.

Seems to me, chances are good that if you ain't gettin' in within that time frame, the problem may just possibly reside with you somewhere. Maybe you chose the wrong job. MAybe you shouldn't have smoked that joint before walking into the Recruiter's office. Maybe you should have studied harder in school. Maybe you should learn to present yourself better when talking to the recruiter.
 
I myself, have now been waiting 10 months, going on 11, for just my criminal record check (fingerprints) to come back,

If this is for an in Canada check then you have been waiting too long and I strongly suggest you call the CFRC/D to find out why.

If this is for an out of country check then unfortunately it does take a very long time even for them to come back and say they can't do it.
 
What is the recruitment process that the American army uses? The only bad things I have heard about it are problems with the recruiters themselves (IE. forgoing drug tests). Why couldn't we just use a their process or something based off of it if there are so many problems with our own?
 
kincanucks said:
I myself, have now been waiting 10 months, going on 11, for just my criminal record check (fingerprints) to come back,

If this is for an in Canada check then you have been waiting too long and I strongly suggest you call the CFRC/D to find out why.

If this is for an out of country check then unfortunately it does take a very long time even for them to come back and say they can't do it.

I was charged for assault close to 4 years ago, so im assuming that's an in country check, I call every 2 weeks (actually worried i might be annoying them), all i ever get told is that they have heard nothing, and that these things can sometimes take a long time and theres nothing i (or they) can do except wait it out.
 
Jaxson said:
I was charged for assault close to 4 years ago, so im assuming that's an in country check, I call every 2 weeks (actually worried i might be annoying them), all i ever get told is that they have heard nothing, and that these things can sometimes take a long time and theres nothing i (or they) can do except wait it out.

They shouldn't take that long and sometimes the security folks lose fingerprints or the RCMP never receives them.  Call the CFRC/D and ask them to check in with DPM Sec 2 to make sure that the checks are in fact ongoing and PM me your surname, initials and service number and I will try and check something out form my end.
 
A few years ago I was interviewing a potential recruit and started to query him about his drug use.  Went down the list : cocaine, no; hallucinogenics (LSD, must have 10 years since last use), no; marijuana (experimental only, more than one year acceptable), YES; When was the last time you used?  What time is it now?  Amazing.... but true.
 
The reason for all the fuss over Recruitment is all in the numbers. People are  leaving the military at the same rate as new soldiers are coming in. The military are the ones asking for a faster enlistment program. Those that are serving now are being asked to go the extra mile due to the lack of replacement soldiers. If new blood is not injected into the military soon there is going to be a burn out of our serving members.

Some have suggested that the Supp. Reserve should be used in some fashion. I am retired now but would consider a small role with the military again.

 
"6 Months......do you know how long it takes to get a job as a intelligence officer at CSIS ?  6 months may seem a long time but its not that bad"

- What is your Mobilization Plan?  We put 1,000,000 people out of a population of 13,000,000 into uniform in WW2.  Could we do that now?

Why not?

"the security folks lose fingerprints"

- Which results in an investigation, right?

"...to St Jean. Average grouping was 6 - 9 months, with a few flyers. Same as me 11 years ago. Funny, that."

- That is criminal.  We should go back to Regimental Recruiting.

- Testing over a week: Pt, quick Pt 1 Med -sign Med Waiver pending Part 2, Trades testing, Psych testing, interview, divided into three groups:

1. Sorry.
2. Maybe.  We will call in two weeks.
3. You catch your flight Friday night.

Then, a year's probationary contract.  Any course failures, injuries or administrative/adaptive issues will result in release or transfer to Reserve sup list: Bye bye.

If not fully trained in a year - transfer to sup list or release.  Enrol the survivors into the Reg Force.




 
Jaxson said:
it doesn't change the fact this is what i want to do, and to all you other people who are discouraged, if this is what you truly want to do in life.. a year... a year and half, the wait wont matter, the end result is all you care about and are focused on.

You are very right, Jaxson.

I have wanted to be in the CF for 14years. I put my dream on hold(not by choice) to raise a family and go to college.
Now the time is right and I am waiting, impatiently I might add, but I am still waiting, and waiting, and waiting. And while we are waiting, my entire families life is on hold. No booking of annual leave for my hubby because we have clue when I will get the call and when I will be gone. This process isn't just affecting me, but my family as well.

I may come across that I am being whiny or whatever, but I know I am not the only one feeling this way about how long the process takes.
 
Well everyone let me tell you about recruiting...

Most everyone knows that I had my name in for DEO NO and that all of my testing went over without a hitch...I had excellent marks from uni, passed the PT test at the 17 year old male level...have been training hard and have wanted nothing more in my lifetime than to be in the Forces.
I went through a circus with a Res unit for 10 months and had enough of that...was encouraged by a most wonderful recruiter to go Regs...and I did...did PT over to keep file updated and have continued to train diligently in case I got "The Call"...

Well yesterday I got "The Call" except it wasn't a good call...it went something like this...you were up on the merit list and scored very well...you were an excellent candidate but...

The CF decided that instead of taking 8 DEO NOs this year it took 2...the other 6 spots were put into the ROTP for nursing...so there aren't spots left...he said had there of been the 8 I would have been selected without a doubt :'(

Most of you know how bad I wanted to do this and how dedicated I have been to getting there...this is CF recruiting at it's best...

Anyway, after a long, long cry (I never cry for any reason...ask Mud) I am deciding what to do...I am dead set on being in the Forces...one way shape or form...hey that would be the persistence...eh Para.

I am looking at other trades and other ways to get in...any and all comments or advice are certainly welcome...PM me.

So I got my first big bone from the CF...I am up for more...

HL
 
For those who think there is nothing wrong with the Recruiting system the way it is, here's my 2 cents.

I am a current serving (Ex Reg Frce, now Class B reserve) with 17 years in next month.  I went thru Reg Frce recruiting and reserves and am currently mid-step in a CT back to Reg Frce.

No problems with the Recruiting system?  That is ignorance and denial.  Period.  That is the same stupid mentality I have seen before.  "On my basic, we had to do stupid things for no reason so now, as an instructor, I will make them do stupid things because, well, because thats they way it is."  Just cause something was f**ked up when you did it, you should suck it up and never improve it because "thats just the way it is"?  Right.

How do I know?

The CF Recruiting Site says this for CTs:

No physical fitness test for those of you who have demonstrated successful completion of the CF EXPRES test or the Land Force Command Physical Fitness Test within the 12-month period prior to CT application (or 24-month period if exempted); Guess what, I did the EXPRES test in March.  I just did it AGAIN yesterday.  12 months eh?  Maybe CFRC staff need to follow the guidelines.  I don't have a problem diong the test, but why is this info on the website if its not policy or not followed.  Yet there it is in black and white

No Enhanced Reliability Check if you have a current reliability clearance or security clearance to the level required for your occupation; and

No medical examination for if you are younger than 37 and have had a CF medical within the last five years. Bullcrap on this one again.  I did a Part 1 and Part 2 even though, as I am Class B, I just did a complete medical in much less than 5 years.  I am 35.

Members of the Regular and Reserve Forces already enjoy a sense of camaraderie, and shared expertise and goals, that transcend those found in most workplaces. Streamlined CT policy will forge even stronger bonds, creating a seamless environment within which all of you can move efficiently and contribute on an equitable footing.

Canadian Forces Personnel Newsletter
Issue 11/05 - 16 November 2005

http://www.recruiting.forces.gc.ca/engraph/CFmembers/serving_CFmembers_e.aspx  (click on Component Transfer on the drop-down list)

Its a nicely written article.  Too bad it wasn't actually true.  I don't think the CT should be in the hands of the CFRG.  I am not a "recruit", they already did that with me twice, so after 17 years in, I am back at CFRC.  The staff is great at the CFRC, don't get me wrong, but the process and methodology behind this stinks.

I personally have been thru this story that Hot Lips is talking about and I will tell you, straight up, that you are only seeing the tip of the iceberg on this one and how f**ked up it has been.  And when she would look at me and ask me questions about why this and why that, I could see right then and there that the CF Recruiting needs a face-lift.  Anyone who would like me to justify it, based on her recruiting experience, please ask away.  I can provide detailed info on the CF Recruting process/system jerking around someone who only wanted/wants to serve. 

-She is not after the free university, she already has a degree. 
-She is not after the $40,000 signing bonus for Nursing Officers, because there isn't one. 
-She is not some 18 year old not sure what to do with her life. 
-She passed the PT tests at the under-35 Male standard.  There are serving Male members who can't do that for christ sakes. 

So, where did her MOTIVATION to service count in the "merit system".  There are people out there getting free degree's and cutting loose after their mandatory service, vice someone who is medically, educationally and "for love of country" reasons, most fit for service. 

What she didn't tell you was she was at a lunch function at the Wardroom the day before her call came, with a few Nursing Officers from the local area.  According to THEM...they are severely in need of nurses in the CF that have actual critical care skills.  One of the NOs there at the lunch said they are SEVERELY short nurses that can actually nurse in places like A-stan.  And hey, the guy JUST got back.  And this guy has 20+ years in, and ya, IS a Nurse O in the Forces.  So, lets assume he knows what he is talking about.  So, Hot Lips worked in Emerg a few years ago when we met.  Should be a shoe-in to me; emerg medicince, medically fit, motivated, all the stuff the CF says it looking for, then the MCC has to call and say "well someone changed the plan that I told you about, that made you decide to apply Reg Frce, so, even though I have told you how strong of an applicant you are, and even though you can pass the EXPRES test to the under 35 Male standard, and you have a degree...no thanks.  However, we appreciate you hanging on for over a year."  This is the same one that encouraged her to apply Reg Frce because she was such a strong applicant.  Oh yeah, I know some of the CFRC staff, and they told me too, that she was "pretty much a shoe in".  Nothing was guarunteed, yup she knew that, I know that, we all know that.  Is that a good excuse/reason to just say "recruiting is fine the way it is".  I don't think so.

If anyone thinks that is, well, "ok", I ask you to please never take a task at the CFRC in your area.

The CF is about people, for without people, there is no CF.  I think it should look inward to see if there are ways to look after people, like Hot Lips, who's sole motivation is to serve.  We have people in uniform that are there for themselves, and people like her clawing to get in so they can serve.  And...there is nothing wrong with that?   ::)

Oddly enough, take a look at the bottom right part of this website (link below) and look at the Hot Jobs listed.  Now, anyone please, explain THAT to Hot Lips...cause I sure can't.  And yes, to quote the words RIGHT ABOVE THAT LIST...

Learn more about these specialized, in-demand professions:

http://www.recruiting.forces.gc.ca/engraph/home/index_e.aspx

Please, don't anyone be so ignorant as to say "there is nothing wrong with our recruiting system".  What more do you need to see, to see that there IS something wrong with it?  How do you explain to people like Hot Lips, who had NO medical issues, drug issues, etc etc that the "system works and weeds out the unwanted's" when there is now a Capt at the CFRC in Halifax that can't explain to her the sense in this mess?  The one who is meeting with her next Monday to try to figure something out? 

This is not meant to offend or point fingers at current CFRG staff/personnel, it is directed at the "system", not the people. 







 
I am in total agreement with you, Mud. HL and I have chatted about the frustrations of the system before, and we are both on the same page.

My husband has had to listen to the same sort of stuff as you have from HL....and he can't figure out what the issues are either.

Give her a hug for me....and let her know I'm thinking of her...I'm still waiting for them to return my call from 2 days ago  ::)

 
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