Finally its done......the budget vote

[Zipper]

I agree with you there Inf. Minority governments and triple E senate would be wonderful. Although I think having no parties (furturetrooper) would be to much, as it could lead to so much back room jocking for votes that it would lead to a very corrupt system with vote buying and all. Otherwise, not a bad idea.

Oh, and good on Chuck. A honourable politician that deserves his title. Who would have thunk? ;D

 

[jmacleod]

Martin may regret the fact that an election was not called. Although the Liberal establishment
media (Globe&Mail, Toronto Star, CBC) are painting a very rosy picture and a "great victory" the
fact is that most, if not all Parliamentry Committee's, (which actually make the House of Commons
work) are controlled by Conservatives, and in my opinion, Layton's dream of a socialist utopia
funded by billions of tax payers dollars will be debated, compromised, diverted, changed, realigned
and will not resemble what he dreamed about - and it can (and probably will) take many months.
Aside from that, financial promises of huge amounts of funding are so complex to actually initiate
and undertake, that much of the funding will not be in place, if ever, before a mandatory national
election. Take a look at the Defence funding promises, and the reality of actual dollars being spent
before the end of the decade. MacLeod

 

[Thirstyson]

Martin may regret the fact that an election was not called. Although the Liberal establishment
media (Globe&Mail, Toronto Star, CBC) are painting a very rosy picture and a "great victory"

Since when was the G&M a Liberal rag?

 

[pronto]

Globe and Mail is owned by Globemedia, which is owned by BCE Inc (HQ in Montreal). BCE and its former presidents and CEOs are all well-connected liberals - Jean Monty, Jean de Grandpre, Raymond Cyr, Michael Sabia, etc. etc. They also own CTV, Aliant, Sympatico, etc. etc...

liberal, ain't they? The media may sometimes like to PRETEND they're conservative (and that you have a choice), but deep down they're all pretty pink....

Remember, boys and girls... If it bleeds, it leads....

 

[jmacleod]

Pronto is right - readers just got a birds eye view of some of the members of the real Liberal
establishment - I wrote the Globe and Mail about a month ago, and suggested they register
in Ottawa as a Lobbyist Firm representing the Liberal Party of Canada. The Toronto Star has
always been a Liberal paper, but they do not slant (modify) the news like the Globe (which
thirty-forty years ago, was the bastion of the Conservative Party, later the Progressive Conservative
Party of Canada) - and the CBC promotes the Liberal agenda (that is, winning elections) because
the Liberal Party, which I am sure most CBC socialists detest, sign the cheques. The Sun papers
are unquestionably Tory - have some great journalists. MacLeod

 

[pronto]

I am very sorry to inform you that the sun newspapers are owned by sun media, which is owned by Quebecor Ltd. Even though Brian Mulroney is on the board, and chairs it, there are deep liberal ties as well with the Peladeaus. If you look at Quebecor World (the international arm), you will see "Liberal" ties in Europe. and never forget Peladeau used to work for Jean Monty!!

If you think they are true blue tory, well think again my dears! They are pan-nationalists. What is good for the company is to maintain close ties with both parties, and to be loyal to none. Here is an extract from a story about Brian's birthday:

"So it was, on a Friday evening in March, that a select group of the island community's seasonal and permanent inhabitantsâ ”among them Paul Desmarais (LIBERAL) , Conrad Black (SORTA TORY), Koch (TORY), Fanjul (TORY) and Ford (LIBERAL) â ”descended on the ritzy Club Colette on Peruvian Avenue. The occasion that brought them to the private dinner club (which was once owned by Aldo Gucci, a detail too delicious to ignore for anyone familiar with Mulroney's shoe fixation) was the boy from Baie Comeau's (TORY) 65th birthday party.

They were joined by an illustrious list of out-of-towners. George Bush Sr (TORY). flew over from Houston. Gustavo Cisneros (LIBERAL), Venezuela's richest man, came up from Caracas. Dallas-based leveraged buyout wizard Tom Hicks (TORY) popped over from his retreat in the Caribbean. So did Irish media baron Tony O'Reilly (LIBERAL), who flew in on his Gulfstream III. Pierre Karl Péladeau (UNKNOWN - BOTH?)came down from Montreal, Gerry Schwartz (LIBERAL) and Galen Weston (LIBERAL) from Toronto."

Hmmm - Liberals, Torys, Republicans, Democrats... How about all of the above and none of the above? Politics is important only insofar as it can affect the company bottom line. It is not uncommon to see former political adversaries lunching together convivially as members of the same board of directors. it's about the money. The media makes money. always. I know this sounds like a conspiracy theory nutjob's best story, but it isn't... Business is business. Business owns politics. It owns countries. Think of the Irvings and NB. the Bronfmans and Montreal. The Reichmans and the london docklands. Heck - they went bankrupt, and still managed to buy canary wharf!!!

The liberal and tory establishments are the second echelon. Yep - it is Business and families which form the first echelon, and tell the politicos what to do.

 

[pronto]

and in case you think I am nutz - Chretien's daughter France is married to Paul Desmarais' son Andre... and Paul and Brian Mulroney are friendly enough to attend private birthday parties for each other.... >

 

[Zipper]

I think you guys are barking up a few trees that are dead.

Who cares who is friends with whom? Who owns what, and so forth.

You make it sound like if your a conservative or liberal (and NDP), you have to be enemies. WTF? These people work with each other on a daily basis and bond as co-workers do. If they want to attend parties together and marry off their children to each other, then who cares. As well many of those people own homes around Meech Lake and thus attend each others parties all the time.

As for the news agencies. They are doing their job as they see it. You blame the Star/CBC/G&M/etc...    ...as being liberal. Sure they have their commentators/editors who are slanted one way or the other, but then so do those stations/papers that are owned by more conservative elements have their left leaning reporters. As long as the news is reported on in as pure a form as possable (something rare these days) and not skewed, its fine by me.

I was rather impressed/shocked by the reporting on politics lately. Maybe it was more a news feeding frenzy then anything, but all stations and papers were going for liberal blood in the last few weeks and making everyone sure their would be an election whether they liked it or not. Thats the nature of the beast. They get on side with the powers that be so that they don't get cut off from information sources, and when a weakness is shown, they all jump on the carcass as quickly as possable. Its just this time the carcass managed (somehow) to stand up again.

So instead of asking which news agency is on which side, ask yourself which ones you enjoy watching/reading more and then go with it. Sales/ratings will tell the tale.

In fact if you want to get at the truth, I would read/watch both with a grain of salt and cut a line between.

 

[onecat]

Have to disagree with your Zipper, all the major papers and tv new casts are pro Liberal.  The national post might less so but its still coming out as pro Liberal too me.  Its too bad really, as I think it gives Canadians a shewed view of what is happening.  They all paint the conservatives as being too far to the right.  I was reading a few a papers the day after Belinda left and the gerenal take was she is now at home in a better place becasue she's pro- choice, pro gay marriage etc... which pretty says the conservative party is not the place for socially progressive person.  Even in the ;ast election it was like that, can you really trust Harper, there all about the west etc.....  never anything like can you trust paul Martin to be honest or can you trust the lIberal to give you good government... which over the course the last years they haven't.

Personally Canada needs a change of Government the sooner the better( also needs a change in way we elect them as well),, but I don't think Canadians really take much interest in it.  And they'll vote the Liberals back in; and they will keep on stealing our money because by voting them back it send them a message that Canadians don't care.  I mean if last weeks cheap shot over Sudan, just to get one guy's vote wasn't enough; I don't know what is.  If their is a silverlining in the budget vote, it'll be that Paul now has to find the money to keep all his promises.... oh wait he can cut the defence budget, that what he did in the 90's..

 

[Horse_Soldier]

I mean if last weeks cheaper shot over Sudan, just to get one guy's vote wasn't enough; I don't what is.  

Apparently not the fact that PM used outright political bribery to keep himself in power, i.e. he bought his government's stay of execution by buying Stronach's vote with a cabinet post.  Judging by a lot of the letters to the editor in the paper this AM, there are plenty of people out there who think Stronach is a courageous, principled woman who did this for the good of the country - full stop.  I don't know whether to weep or to laugh.

 

[Slim]

I'm not surprised...But very dissapointed.

Slim

 

[Gunnar]

Follow my lead:  I'm weeping.

===
When asked about the corrupt Liberal party, and what happened to public funds, Canadians took the moral high road and said:  "I'd rather not have an election right now--don't these guys know that reality TV is on?".

When asked about Belinda Stronach, a majority of Canadians respected her committment to principle for knifing her party in the back on the eve of an important vote.  I didn't hear them commenting on the committment to principle that Harper or MacKay have had for continuously sending out the same message.  Apparently, principle is something only Liberals have, and only when it's bad for anyone who isn't Liberal.

See, trying to hold the government accountable is really just political fighting.  And the Conservatives are as bad as the Liberals--they tried to bring down the government so they could win an election and put out their hidden agenda.  All politicians are the same, and the Conservatives are just as bad as the Liberals.
===
So many years of Liberal management of schools, the law courts, immigration & etc. has made us into a truly Liberal country:  Most of the population can't understand a principle, integrity or the concept of right and wrong.  They don't think about their vote, they don't look at root causes or why things have happened in the political sphere.  All they know is that parties that aren't the Liberals are bad for the country.  Years of political propaganda on the part of the Liberal media, the purchased Advertising firms and everyone who came to our FREE country without understanding the responsibilities it entails have taken their toll.

Still, the news is funny...listening to the sheeple's assinine comments when a news item comes out with clearly defined proof that the Liberals lied, cheated and stole is kinda amusing, in a sick and twisted way.  It's almost as if this had happened:

News:  Person X raped and killed 20 women, then fed the remains to pigs.  But the money he made from selling the pigs went to charity.
Viewer:  Well, the money went to charity...why don't they just leave him alone?  The man has a pig farm to run!  Things are hard for pig farmers right now!  And it's not like the police are any better!  After all, they shoot people too....!

I often hear that the problem the Conservatives have is that they aren't a REAL alternative to the Liberals.  I submit that the problem is that they ARE a REAL alternative to the Liberals...and choosing between alternatives requires thought...thought the Canadian voter wants to save for Survivor and The Bachelor.

 

[aesop081]

..........I often hear that the problem the Conservatives have is that they aren't a REAL alternative to the Liberals.   I submit that the problem is that they ARE a REAL alternative to the Liberals...and choosing between alternatives requires thought...thought the Canadian voter wants to save for Survivor and The Bachelor.

"The best argument against democracy is a 5 minute converstion with the average voter" - Winston Curchill


Nuff said  ;D

 

[Canuck_25]

Follow my lead:   I'm weeping.

===
When asked about the corrupt Liberal party, and what happened to public funds, Canadians took the moral high road and said:   "I'd rather not have an election right now--don't these guys know that reality TV is on?".

When asked about Belinda Stronach, a majority of Canadians respected her committment to principle for knifing her party in the back on the eve of an important vote.   I didn't hear them commenting on the committment to principle that Harper or MacKay have had for continuously sending out the same message.   Apparently, principle is something only Liberals have, and only when it's bad for anyone who isn't Liberal.

See, trying to hold the government accountable is really just political fighting.   And the Conservatives are as bad as the Liberals--they tried to bring down the government so they could win an election and put out their hidden agenda.   All politicians are the same, and the Conservatives are just as bad as the Liberals.
===
So many years of Liberal management of schools, the law courts, immigration & etc. has made us into a truly Liberal country:   Most of the population can't understand a principle, integrity or the concept of right and wrong.   They don't think about their vote, they don't look at root causes or why things have happened in the political sphere.   All they know is that parties that aren't the Liberals are bad for the country.   Years of political propaganda on the part of the Liberal media, the purchased Advertising firms and everyone who came to our FREE country without understanding the responsibilities it entails have taken their toll.

Still, the news is funny...listening to the sheeple's assinine comments when a news item comes out with clearly defined proof that the Liberals lied, cheated and stole is kinda amusing, in a sick and twisted way.   It's almost as if this had happened:

News:   Person X raped and killed 20 women, then fed the remains to pigs.   But the money he made from selling the pigs went to charity.
Viewer:   Well, the money went to charity...why don't they just leave him alone?   The man has a pig farm to run!   Things are hard for pig farmers right now!   And it's not like the police are any better!   After all, they shoot people too....!

I often hear that the problem the Conservatives have is that they aren't a REAL alternative to the Liberals.   I submit that the problem is that they ARE a REAL alternative to the Liberals...and choosing between alternatives requires thought...thought the Canadian voter wants to save for Survivor and The Bachelor.

Man, scary people we have on this forum. You really think liberalism is a disease. Frankly, i find religon more of a danger than liberalism. Last thing I want is a church over my head telling me God said the sun revolves around the earth. The Conservatives are too close with religous groups.

Religon is the real danger. Id rather have liberalism than a pope who is a former Nazi youth member influencing my life. We dont want to return to the dark ages do we?

 

[TCBF]

"Freedom of Religion" is just that - it does not mean "Freedom FROM Religion"

I put forth to you that you in fact follow a religion - the religion of 'Liberalism'.

It is a godless religion, whose central entity is man himself.  It's adherants are intolerant towards non-believers, sequester themselves and their offspring in certain walks of life (politics, education, the law) and conspire to fund their religion off the backs of those workers who actually produce wealth.  Furthermore, like the Masons in Italy in the last century, they have taken corrupt steps to ensure we will be continuously ruled by a series of elected dictatorships peopled by a self-perpetuating socialist intellectual elite.

So, when do your pogroms start?

Tom

 

[Zipper]

Oh man. The religious/political game again? Lets avoid that slippery slope shall we?

As for your pogroms (??) starting Tom...            ...right now! Get out the neo-con beating stick, its time for a re-education. ;D

As for that line about socialist intellectual elite? Where do you guys get that one from? Its like calling someone a fascist pig (like I do you all the time Tom ;D) Its a name based on little fact, since there are plenty of "intellectuals" on both sides of the fence and both consider themselves "elite" for some reason or another.

Ah well. I guess the name calling is the fun part.

 

[canadianblue]

Man, scary people we have on this forum. You really think liberalism is a disease. Frankly, i find religon more of a danger than liberalism. Last thing I want is a church over my head telling me God said the sun revolves around the earth. The Conservatives are too close with religous groups.

Religon is the real danger. Id rather have liberalism than a pope who is a former Nazi youth member influencing my life. We dont want to return to the dark ages do we?

Well I don't think Harper's a Catholic so you don't have to worry about that, you should worry more about the Liberals and Bloc in that case as I believe that majority of their members are from that religion. As well were do you get your info from, what religous groups. This is exactly the type of rhetoric that is more likely to destroy democracy, when fascism comes to North America it will come in the name of anti-Fascism.

 

[Canuck_25]

Well I don't think Harper's a Catholic so you don't have to worry about that, you should worry more about the Liberals and Bloc in that case as I believe that majority of their members are from that religion. As well were do you get your info from, what religous groups. This is exactly the type of rhetoric that is more likely to destroy democracy, when fascism comes to North America it will come in the name of anti-Fascism.

Ok, ill give you a example of religous groups and the Conservative Party work hand in hand.

Gay marriage

Asking you honestly, what is wrong with it? Will gay marriage make you sick and die? Will it prevent you from getting married? Will it erode your religous values?

Gay marriage will not effect me in any negative way, hell it dosn't bother me because it dosn't effect me. It's those religous fanatics who say "we are all sinners" and "gay people are sinners." It's kinda ironic because when they are stating this, in the backrooms, Bishops and Priests are molesting little boys. Honestly, do you think there is even a god when a Bishop is playing with a little boys penis? I think not.

Then you have the Isamic fanatics. These people seem to think that if you run into a supermarket with bombs strapped to yourself and detonating yourself among the people is a great thing. Hell, if you do this, you have a free pass to heaven, and free virgens are everywhere! I have an idea, why dont i blow myself up for a free trips to heaven : Christians did this also. Crusades anyone?


  Honestly people, take a look at the religous following of the peoples across the globe in their countries. You will find that the 3rd world countries have the largest religous following, and most westren countries have the least. You know why? It is because people in the west are better educated, and the state is seperate from the church. Thanks god for a liberal state. If liberalism didnt exist, I would be a serf in a feudel society, and Steven Harper would be my lord.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Canuck 25,
You were warned before about hijacking threads for your personal anti-religon crusade.
Bye bye, troll.

 

[Zipper]

Sorry if I haven't kept track of his record on this...

...but he does state a reasonable point from a certain point of view (opinion). Like I said, I have no idea at how aggressively he has stated his point to the offense of others, but to ban someone for believing something (or not as the case may be) smacks of censoring. We all have divergant opinions here, some stronger then others (hey Tom? ;D), but in the end we are all just trying to come to our own limited understanding of the world around us and how to make it better from our own point of view.

To stifle a certain way of looking at the world diminishes it for us all. I have yet to see, in this thread at least, anyone attacking with swearing and insults another's point of view?

Other then that, what the hell were we talking about again? :blotto: