CP Gear OTW Shirt. Review?

[Eric_911]

CP Gear OTW:

ICE Tactical Direct Action:

 

[Sig_Des]

I actually do have one of each sitting right here. Now, to clarify, these haven't seen the light of Afghan sun yet.

That being said, the ICE shirt is somewhat different than pictured above, Hobey's changed it. The Mandarin collar is gone, now just the zippered closure, though he has a small pull-cord on the tab, something the CP shirt does not. The ICE shirt also no longer has the nametape Velcro.

Both are made with the dri-fire material.

The ICE shirt's pockets, I found a little easier to open and close, and to slide my smokes in and out.

The ICE shirt also has penslots on the lower arm of the sleeves, 2 slots per sleeve. Also has a velcro-sealed pocket on the elbows to slide in padding should you wish.

I like both shirts, but to me, for the difference in price, I prefer the ICE shirt.

 

[trencher]

I like the look of both, but the ICE looks a bit more CF .

I wish cp gear would take better pics of there stuff  ;D

But other then that i will be going on tour and I will be thinking of getting

1 or 2 of these shirts. I will not be leaving the camp much in my trade so should do.

 

[Sig_Des]

If anyone thinks this warrant's it's own thread, that works, but here's a bit of a comparison between the two shirts.

CP Gear OTW

ICE DA

Both shirts similar, CP Gear uses DriFIRE material for the torso, ICE is a High Performance FR Polyester (not sure of name brand). Both use authentic CadPat.

Collar:

OTW

DA

Not much difference on the two collars, though you can notice that the DA's zipper goes a little lower, and has a dummy cord loop on the zipper. The collar on the OTW is snugger to the neck when completely closed.

Cuffs:

OTW

DA

Once again, not a huge difference, the velrco tabs are different, but nothing big.

Sleeve Pockets:

OTW

DA

Here's a little bit of difference. Velcro patch on the OTW is a lot bigger than on the DA shirt, although the DA shirt isn't lacking.

As far as the pockets, I find the DA's easier to get into because of A)the dummy cord loop, and B) the opening has less of a pleat covering the zipper, making access easier, and allowing a little more opening.

No big difference in carrying capacity between the two (you shouldn't be jamming too much stuff in there anyway).


Now, here are some features that are only found in the ICE DA shirt;

Reinforced elbows have Velcro closed slots for foam pads:

Pen slots on both sleeves (2 per):

Once again, these haven't been worn overseas yet (getting packed into my AB right now), and these are initial impressions from trying out and wearing with my full battle-rattle.

Both shirts wear very comfortably (OTW a little more comfortable out of the bag due to the driFIRE material, but not noticeably more than the DA shirt after some wear) under Body Armour.

I like that the DA shirt has dummy cord loops on all zippers (an obviously easy do-it-yourself fix you can perform on the OTW).


Price difference between the two is about 30$ Can. I'm not going to tout either over the other, but as I said, for the price, and the extra little features, I personally lean towards the ICE DA shirt. (I will wear both)

 

[Eric_911]

Thanks for the review BW! Great info and pics

 

[Soldier1stTradesman2nd]

Seems ICE shows prices in USD. At US$95, with the current exchange rate this come to $117 Canadian. Not much of a price diff after all. Not sure what ICE's shipping cost is, but if it is anything more than CPGear's $8.00, then the difference becomes even less so.

 

[NL_engineer]

Matt, how much would it cost to have arm pen pockets like the US Army's ACU's put on the OTW?

 

[Matt_Fisher]

Matt, how much would it cost to have arm pen pockets like the US Army's ACU's put on the OTW?

Contact me via pm or offline to discuss.

Cheers,

Matt

 

[NL_engineer]

I'll talk to you next time I drop by the store  8).

Is the second generation out yet, or when is its ETA?

 

[Nfld Sapper]

KIT SLUT .....


;D

j/k

 

[OldSolduer]

Question.

Has anyone put forward a suggestion to the kit guys (I forget the acronymn - is it DLR?) to trial this? Just wondering.

 

[Ecco]

Question.

Has anyone put forward a suggestion to the kit guys (I forget the acronymn - is it DLR?) to trial this? Just wondering.

The first time it was recommended in Lessons Learned or by UCR etc...  is by 322eR recce platoon when they got back.  Assume 1 to 2 years from initial request to the kit is in soldiers hand, if there is support and everything goes according to plan.  That period of time is actually very short, all things considered.  Expenditure authority has been given, the design is mostly frozen, the hybrid shirt is now in pre-contracting phase.  Definitly not for TF 1-09, MAYBE for TF3-09, most likely for TF1-10.

 

[COBRA-6]

The first time it was recommended in Lessons Learned or by UCR etc...  is by 322eR recce platoon when they got back.  Assume 1 to 2 years from initial request to the kit is in soldiers hand, if there is support and everything goes according to plan.  That period of time is actually very short, all things considered.  Expenditure authority has been given, the design is mostly frozen, the hybrid shirt is now in pre-contracting phase.  Definitly not for TF 1-09, MAYBE for TF3-09, most likely for TF1-10.

Good to hear Ecco, PM inbound.

 

[OldSolduer]

The first time it was recommended in Lessons Learned or by UCR etc...  is by 322eR recce platoon when they got back.  Assume 1 to 2 years from initial request to the kit is in soldiers hand, if there is support and everything goes according to plan.  That period of time is actually very short, all things considered.  Expenditure authority has been given, the design is mostly frozen, the hybrid shirt is now in pre-contracting phase.  Definitly not for TF 1-09, MAYBE for TF3-09, most likely for TF1-10.

Excellent!!

 

[Matt_Fisher]

The first time it was recommended in Lessons Learned or by UCR etc...  is by 322eR recce platoon when they got back.  Assume 1 to 2 years from initial request to the kit is in soldiers hand, if there is support and everything goes according to plan.  That period of time is actually very short, all things considered.  Expenditure authority has been given, the design is mostly frozen, the hybrid shirt is now in pre-contracting phase.  Definitly not for TF 1-09, MAYBE for TF3-09, most likely for TF1-10.

Any word whether it's using FR CADPAT material, or the current combat cloth?

 

[Ecco]

Any word whether it's using FR CADPAT material, or the current combat cloth?

Short answer:

No, it won't use normal combat cloth, yes, it will use FR material.

Long(er) answer:

FR is pretty much an over-hyped marketing scheme if it's not explained and defined correctly.  The typical cadpat combat cloth is FR.  It contains synthetic material, therefore it will eventually burn (like everything else), however, it has to pass rigorous burning tests, where it has to pass soldier requirements as defined by extensive medical research and too often re-validated by the CASPEAN project.  There are a zillion different way to apply flame/flash, in terms of strength and or duration, and there is even more ways to define success and failure of the material.  Most ANSI standards are industry-oriented or fabric-oriented (they define failure as chars or self-combustion).  The DND tests are user-oriented (they define failures as the soldiers getting hurt:  I could not care less if my uniform has chars if my skin is okay after a flash).  Furthermore, burn testing of a FR uniform should be done at the system-level, not at the fabric level.

The current issue combat material meets well defined soldier requirements in terms of FR and those requirements are re-validated regularly.  The Hybrid shirt will have better FR material because we can afford it (in this case "afford" is not related to money but to engineering trade-offs).  New materials offer higher levels of FR while maintaining the same required characteristics in terms of breathability, vapour transmission, camouflage performance, and feel to the touch, amongst other things.

 

[Matt_Fisher]

Ecco,

Thanks for the update.  Will there also be a set of new trousers in addition to the Hybrid Shirt?  Is this an interim solution to the Future Combat Uniform (FCU) project, or part of FCU itself?

Cheers,

Matt

 

[deh]

Thought I would revive this rather than start a new thread.

I was hoping to add my initial impressions of this shirt which was recently purchased.  So far it has just been walked around the house and some minor calaesthetics with my frag vest and cement plates.

What I like;

Overall I am very impressed with the general quality of workmanship and the thought that went into this item.  All the stitching is top notch and all the seams are placed in areas where they will do the least amount of damage with weight on them.  The vest is much more comfortable with out two layers of slip on, rank tab, four layers of storm flap (made of something that doesn't block wind and absorbs water) buttons and t-shirt pressing on my sternum.  Especially clever is the design of the back and shoulders where the cadpat meets the drifire.  It manages to skirt the frag vest without showing itself and being very comfortable.   

The collar is a tad high for my liking, as my beard hair tends to get caught and pulled in it when it is done all the way up.  This is nothing new and a minor comfort point I imagine most people won't have a problem with.  The actual layout is fantastic.  I have always thought it silly we have a dress shirt collar on a silly looking cadpat shirt with weird bellowed angled pockets.  It is so outdated and out of place that the mandarin style collar almost seems too logical.  I love it.

The arms are well thought out, I didn't realise how much I had come to like the sleeve pockets I had overseas until I returned to Canada and starting looking for a place to put a camera with my armour on.  The zippers are well sewn in and i prefer them to the Velcro flap thing we had to settle for in theatre.  The cuff looks good and is functional, reinforced elbows are pretty much standard but I appreciate them all the same.

Not much to be said about the body, it is what it is, basically a heavy weight t-shirt that is incredibly comfortable and supposedly won't melt to my skin.  There are enough reviews of drifire kicking around I won't kick a dead horse.  Especially nice is the cut out that takes the more comfortable drifire material into the arm pits.

What I am not so crazy about;

I find the collar to be rather large in diameter in relation to the size of the garment.  As in, the neck hole is too large.  I am not a huge fan of having anything tight to my throat but there is so much extra room between my neck and the fabric it looks a bit off and it bunches up when my armour shifts on my body.

A little Velcro is good, more is not always better.  Anything more than a 4x5in patch I find to be overkill. You can fit about 9 large IR flags on what is there.  I actually cut it off, as it covers the entire upper arm area and am going to hunt around for someone to sew half what I cut off back on.  It is stiff and actually deforms the sleeve.   

The pockets themselves are large and the zipper is quite recessed.  Again this deforms the sleeve slightly but should soften up with use and washing.

My biggest gripe (and it is a minor one to be honest) is the amount of material in the sleeve.  The diameter before the Velcro is closed would not look out of place on a big cadpat wizards robe.  Once the cuff is tightened the problem goes away except there is a lot of material bunched up on the forearm.  I am unsure of the logic of having such a wide sleeve as I can't imagine wearing anything very bulky underneath this item. 

I don't want to give the impression that I am in any way dissatisfied with this bit o kit.  Compared to what it is replacing it is lightyears ahead.  My only real (again very minor) problems have a bit more to do with the fit to my odd shaped body more than anything else.

More to follow if my experience in the field warrants it. Matt, could you PM me a price to have a different bit of Velcro sewn on the sleeve pocket?  I promise to buy a second one!

 

[PhilB]

Just thought I would throw in my 2 cents on the wide sleeve. Using it in the desert the wide sleeve was great. I put 2 rolls into the sleeve (bringing it to about mid forearm) and the width helped to ventilate.

 

[NL_engineer]

Well I got to wear it once, and I love it.  Too bad I can't wear it again due to the COC thinking that it burns at a lower tempture then cotton :  But non issued rigs are a go  ;D, so I can't bitch about it  :