Canadians serving with the USMC

[jmackenzie_15]

me too scott.. funny this happened, last night i was watching BHD and wondered the exact same thing...
What bad could come out of having canadians come down and join the marines?Ive lately seen a few stories on CNN of the national guard, west point, and the marines not topping off recruitment goals for 2004.

Opening their forces could only increase their ranks in theory.. its not like guys are gonna not re-enlist because canadians are coming  :
I just cant see any reason the states wouldnt allow this and support the idea.

 

[Scott]

Again, I can see a great number of Canadians going down there, serving an engagement and them leaving to go out into the regular workforce. Now, one could argue that the Canadians doing this paid for it by serving but the American can argue that he was born in the States and, therefore, deserves it more. Having said this, I am all for the idea and I am interested to hear ideas about how it could be done.

 

[Infanteer]

I've seen numerous stories of Natives giving up on the CF and going down to the US Forces - many of them served honourably in Iraq.  I think they are able to do so without a Greencard due to the Jay Treaty.

As well, there was a program in place during Vietnam to allow Canadians to go South and enlist.  It's estimated that we traded 30,000 volunteers for 10,000 draft-dodgers.

 

[Scott]

Infanteer, true, Natives may cross the border because they are considered dual citizens under the various treaties (I can't quote one) We have employed them in the past when our work has taken us into Montana. IIRC, it is much easier for an American to come this way to work than vice versa - not sure about how that relates to our military but I do know that they come up all the time to work in the Oilfield as well as the Offshore.

 

[jmackenzie_15]

That was vietnam, a time when they badly wanted as many soldiers as they could get, as they seem to now. They were giving prisoners pardons if they would serve, i dunno if that is still in effect today.... but it happened then, why not now? I could see alot of guys doing it too, If i ever did id leave the CF, join the marines for a tour (or two if I was forced =p) then come back to canada and re-enlist in the reserves with the experience... assuming im alive of course. Kinda like rent a soldier in a way.

 

[ramy]

Another thing id like to point out is, for everybody thinking 'what would it be like in the marines ???' you should check into how much they get paid.
It isnt much.

http://www.dfas.mil/money/milpay/pay/2003paytable.pdf

Pay here in Canada is one of the best in the world for military pay.
I have a few friends down south and they are telling me that the pay isnt as good as it is here.

 

[jmackenzie_15]

So i've heard =p

I'm fairly interested to see where this thread goes though... and alot more interested to see if the marines decide to open up to canucks

 

[mseoptrucker]

Go ahead join the Marines if the reason you joined the CF is to go to war the US is a better choice. I joined to serve my country and further the Canadian cause . The us army has to be strong so they can enforce their will on anyone that thinks different i am much prouder of what we have done as a country and what our history will say about us .Canada has never gone to war for the wrong reasons in my opinion and i am happy to say i don't think we ever will its just not Canadian.

 

[Scott]

Go ahead join the Marines if the reason you joined the CF is to go to war the US is a better choice. I joined to serve my country and further the Canadian cause . The us army has to be strong so they can enforce their will on anyone that thinks different i am much prouder of what we have done as a country and what our history will say about us .Canada has never gone to war for the wrong reasons in my opinion and i am happy to say i don't think we ever will its just not Canadian.

I don't think anyone said that they were looking to go to war. I also think that guys from here would look into it, if it were possible, because of the delays encountered enrolling in the CF. That's why I looked into it a few years back anyway. And you, who are proud of the Canadian cause must be prepared to admit that there may be some here who believe in the American cause. Not saying I am one of them...

Just another $0.02

 

[Infanteer]

Canada has never gone to war for the wrong reasons in my opinion and i am happy to say i don't think we ever will its just not Canadian.

I'm sure that the Boers would say that, especially after the effort we supported chucked their women and children into concentration camps.... :

 

[mseoptrucker]

If you join to marines  your going to war for the american agenda. And i'm not knocking you and your beliefs. I myself don't think the iraq war is where we ,nor the americans for that matter should be at the moment.but thats my opinion. Bin Laden is still running around free while the americans are overextended in iraq.Who was really the bigger threat. lets face it well over a thousand were killed in Iraq to date and thats only counting military. How many were killed in Sommalia before the Americans pulled out how long did it take them to get involved in Bosnia this is what I mean  by the wrong reason.Can i say infanteer that in the history of the world we haven't ever done anything for the wrong reason I mean they say the Vikings were the first to arrive in North America and the Indians before that but if you have to go back to the boer war to find eveidence of us as a country doing the wrong thing its a pretty far reach and I have to admit that isd a war I know little about other then the fact that it was over a century ago

 

[jmackenzie_15]

Alright then, you be in charge of the american military, pull them out right now and see what happens.

Their initial reasons to invade are irrellevant now, its in the past.If the Americans were to pull out of iraq now, being the way it is, it would become a lawless, terrorist haven , rogue state run by warlords and militia heck bent on destroying the states for destroying their home country and then going home.Theyve already declared jihad.The country is in ruins, but yes, lets just leave them to their own devices and hope it pans out.Is that what you would rather?

On Bin Laden, hes probobly more of an icon now and likely cant provide any leadership to al qaeda... thats what i got from CNN lately anyway.. the americans severly disrupted their leadership hierarchy... you know, by killing most of them,(according to them of course) and they didnt think bin laden has had any direct contact to any of the fighters in iraq for some time.

 

[Infanteer]

Okay, take the Iraq debate to the relevent threads (there's plenty of them).  MESOPTRUCKER is right - if you go to join the US Army, expect to be serving American Foreign Policy goals.  If that doens't bother you, then go for it - some would argue that you'd do just as good a job protecting Canada in the US Military as you would in the CF.

 

[Scott]

I don't see the problem of desertion ever ending, in all honesty, so long as you have troops who pay attention to what Michael Moore has to say you are going to have this problem. The thing is, did this one soldier desert because he had the dual citizenship? Was it a driving factor behind his decision? Or is it just a coincidence?

 

[sigpig]

As it stands now Canadian citizens can join the US military, if they have a Green Card. Any Canadian that attained American citizenship would be a dual citizen unless they went through the trouble of renouncing their Canadian citizenship. Why would the fact that one of the deserters had dual citizenship be a problem? Unless the US government is prepared to label all Canadians as risks to desert.

As far as the average Canadian (previous mil experience or not) crossing the border to join the US military the first thing that occurs to me would be the inability to attain a security clearance. Even if some kind of waiver was made for Canadians you could see it being restricted to the Pte/Cpl ranks. Meaning a Canadian, no matter their current rank or experience, could never do a lateral move as a SnrNCO or an officer, or try to join up as an officer.

There are provisions for Green Card holders who join up to attain their citizenship in an accelerated fashion and maybe that could be used by Canadians who join up under this proposed process but how many SnrNCO's or commissioned officers would be willing to start from square one in order to join up south of the border.

Just some rambling thoughts...

 

[scm77]

S_Baker, in you letter you could mention that the governor of Michigan is Canadian (although she might have gotten US citizenship now).  You could also mention the thousands (tens of thousands?) of Canadians that served with the US military in Vietnam.

Don't know if you think those are any good, but just some thoughts

 

[dutchie]

If someone out there works for Citizenship & Immigration Canada, please confirm/refute what I'm about to say: you cannot renounce your Canadian Citizenship. If you have a Canadian Birth Certificate (Provincially issued of course), you can get a SIN card and passport. In fact, a Canadian issued birth certificate (other than Quebec issued ones) is proof of citizenship in itself (again, correct me please if I'm wrong). For Canadian citizens who were born elsewhere, I still don't believe you can renounce your Citizenship, and I don't believe the Government can rescind your citizenship once granted. I mention this only because if you were to join the US military, you would have to obtain dual citizenship (as I assume you need to be a US citizen to join).

I know of one guy at our unit who joined the US Army about a year ago. His process was super quick (by our standards) - about 6-9 months from initial inquiry to first day of basic. He's having a grand time, by all accounts. He was born in the US so his application was quite simple.

 

[sigpig]

From  Citizenship and Immigration Canada - http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/citizen/dualci_e.html

"If you are or will become a citizen of another country and you are living outside Canada, you may apply to renounce Canadian citizenship through any Canadian embassy, high commission or consulate outside Canada. Once you are no longer a Canadian citizen, however, you cannot travel on a Canadian passport or benefit from Canadian assistance outside Canada. Moreover, you cannot return to Canada as a permanent resident without going through immigration procedures."

You don't have to be a US citizen to join the military here, a green card will suffice.

 

[dutchie]

Thanks Sigpig....

I stand corrected.

 

[sigpig]

You are welcome. I know about the joining with a green card thing because it is very prevalent in the news these days down here in Fort Lauderdale. As you all know there is a very large immigrant population here and there have been many mentions in the press about somebody who joined as a green card holder or who got their citizenship while in the military.