Cadet Officers
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bagpiper
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Yes, members of the CIC (Cadet Officers) above the rank of Officer Cadet are Commisioned.
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CIC officers do a different type of training. we go through a BOQ (Basic Officers Qual) and other courses to achieve rank. we are all commissioned. as a member of the CIC we can mustard over to reserv class "B" but would have to be busted down to 2LT and redo all the trainind (battle school ect.) any other questions, please ask.
cheers
cheers
C
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Hopefully airborne soon,
Your response is interesting. When you state a member of the CIC and ‘mustard‘ do you mean re-muster? I thought Camps during the summer were rerserve class "B" - does everyone get busted down to 2LT?
Your response is interesting. When you state a member of the CIC and ‘mustard‘ do you mean re-muster? I thought Camps during the summer were rerserve class "B" - does everyone get busted down to 2LT?
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yes re-muster.....that is a term i guess i picked up.... 
as for class "B" it is different between CIC and primary reserve. to my knowledge anyways. i made a mistake on the post above. if you are a cic and re-muster (mustard) over to primary reserve, that is where you get busted to a 2Lt. sorry .
as for class "B" it is different between CIC and primary reserve. to my knowledge anyways. i made a mistake on the post above. if you are a cic and re-muster (mustard) over to primary reserve, that is where you get busted to a 2Lt. sorry .
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As a CIC officer yes we hold the Queens Commission.The BOQ lasts for 8 days or so then your MOC course or maybe JOLC for 17 straight days At Base Borden now being held AT CRPTC here in Ottawa. CIC Officers are a differnet kind of breed. As a cadet unit Co you get 33 days paid but you might do over 150 days during the Training year.All other officers in the unit will get 23 days pay.Lots of CIC officers are Ex Reg force or P Res and parents who get roped in and like what we do for canadian Youth. the CIC is a sub comp of the P Res.Education is not a big thing all you need is your Grade 12 But many Officer have Univercity Degrees. Now dropping in rank to go to the P Res Or even Reg Force yes you might drop in rank but many time I have seen CIC officers who have the education go direct tranfer and still go on there Phase Trg and still keep their rank. If your a cadet you might think that we as CIC are not real officers in the Canadian Forces ask one of your Officers if you can read there commissioning scroll.
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They do "technically" hold a commission. But the training that they get to receive that commission is a week long, they don‘t require a degree and can be 18 years old. For a lot of NCOs and Officers in the Res or Reg it‘s tough to wrap your head around the fact that you have to salute a teenager fresh out of high school with a week of training, so many don‘t, but you are supposed to, in any case.
As for remustering to PRes or Reg force, nothing in the CIC transfers over. You don‘t get to keep the rank of 2Lt if you don‘t have a university degree, and even if you have the degree, you have to start off at the beginning of training. Essentially, a remuster from the CIC with a degree is the same as joining up as a civilian with a degree; there‘s no advantage.
As for remustering to PRes or Reg force, nothing in the CIC transfers over. You don‘t get to keep the rank of 2Lt if you don‘t have a university degree, and even if you have the degree, you have to start off at the beginning of training. Essentially, a remuster from the CIC with a degree is the same as joining up as a civilian with a degree; there‘s no advantage.
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CM, when you transfer over you get to keep your 2Lt and commission, but you have to do all the training over, BOTC, Battle school ect. And we do not "technically" hold a commission, we DO hold a commission. It is sad, but PRes looks down on us as Reg looks down on you. I know that there are some CIC out there who shouldn‘t brag about being officers, because they dont look/act like officers. but there are some out there who do, and some of them used to be real reserve officers (as you would say) here in windsor, the commandin officer (ex-commanding) LCol transfered to CIC and became a Capt.
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fusilier955
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i think combat_medic was trying to imply with "technically", is that although they are commisioned, they dont command over anyone but cadets and CIC. and also that in what they do for their commision (the training) is nothing in comparison to PRes or Reg. so anything they do over in the CIC, other than getting a commision, does not serve them when they move on to bigger and brighter things.
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What I think is that Reg and P-Res are a little bit ignorant about the CIC.Like what Airborne soon said they look down at us.Yes there are Ocdt‘s in our system think they are the next CDS and only might know the cadet world.I do agree that their are alot of Ret reg Force Officers joinging the CIC movement just to stay in uniform,and there are a lot of good Ret Reg and P res. I personaly know 4. One a Ret Lcol from the Ontario‘s and one Lcol from the Reg force ret nowCommanding officer Of Blackdown cadet Summer Training Center. As a Cic Officer CRA is 65 not 55 or 60. Now as Commanding troops yes we do command cadets. I have personaly commanded P-Res in the last Ice storm as an LT. as Ex G&SF soldier we are tought basic leadership and command.At CFSAL there are more than 20 CIC officers teaching from ADMIN TO TRAINING and Starands.And now to Fusilies995 a commission cant get you any better things your WRONG your the typicle RES SOLDIER thinking that way> Look at Capt Seebee AS a CIC officer he was a member of the SKY HAWKS. there is a cic officer as the 2ic CPRTC in Ottawa also all staff @ CRPTC are paid from the CADETS BUGET.
Ruck up and Soldier on :soldier:
Ruck up and Soldier on :soldier:
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Primer: before you accuse others of being ignorant, you may want to check your own posts as they are full of spelling and grammatical errors, not to mention the acronyms you are using are inconsistent, or just plain wrong.
As for ignorance, I served with a very large number of CIC officers for an entire summer, and it did nothing but diminish any respect I may have once had for the CIC. They were, to a man, arrogant and inexperienced, and never ceased to attempt to flaunt the miniscule authority that was invested in them. They have no command or jurisdiction in the PRes or Reg Force, and yet each attempted to laud some kind of authority over the PRes members who were stationed there. My medical authority was questioned at every juncture by 18 year old 2Lts without so much as basic first aid.
Perhaps my experience was unique and the 50 some odd CIC officers were an anomoly, but the only leaders with any professionalism or clout were the PRes NCOs and Reg Force officers who were there. CIC officers are responsible for leading children. PRes and Reg Force are responsible for leading adults. If you were "commanding" troops during the ice storm, then you were out of your jurisdiction and bounds in doing so. CIC officers are not to be leading troops as they have no training outside of the cadet world. I myself, as a corporal, have instructed Lts and Capts from the CIC on basic soldiering skills; things that an untrained private would have known.
As for ignorance, I served with a very large number of CIC officers for an entire summer, and it did nothing but diminish any respect I may have once had for the CIC. They were, to a man, arrogant and inexperienced, and never ceased to attempt to flaunt the miniscule authority that was invested in them. They have no command or jurisdiction in the PRes or Reg Force, and yet each attempted to laud some kind of authority over the PRes members who were stationed there. My medical authority was questioned at every juncture by 18 year old 2Lts without so much as basic first aid.
Perhaps my experience was unique and the 50 some odd CIC officers were an anomoly, but the only leaders with any professionalism or clout were the PRes NCOs and Reg Force officers who were there. CIC officers are responsible for leading children. PRes and Reg Force are responsible for leading adults. If you were "commanding" troops during the ice storm, then you were out of your jurisdiction and bounds in doing so. CIC officers are not to be leading troops as they have no training outside of the cadet world. I myself, as a corporal, have instructed Lts and Capts from the CIC on basic soldiering skills; things that an untrained private would have known.
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I do understand what you are saying as I said their are a bunch of bad apples that think they know it all and I would like to say sorry for their actions.most of these kids are doing it for Collage BUCKS> As for teaching CIC (Lts and Capts)you should not be doing that They should be tought by Sr NCM‘s or the Adj so you might have been out of your element just a bit. May I ask what CSTC you were tasked to and what was your tasking.Dont get me wrong i have the utmost respect for the P-Res hence i was one EX M/cpl Inf
G and SF Barrie Ont
Ruck up and Soldier on :soldier:
G and SF Barrie Ont
Ruck up and Soldier on :soldier:
xFusilier
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Let me simply say this. If you are a CIC officer and you do not like the way the reserve and regular force treat you, take a look at your peers. When is the last time you saw one of your brother or sister officers do something that was not on. When you saw them take this action did you allow them to carry on as if they were normal or did you pull them aside and say "hey, that wasn‘t on and this is why".
Having worked as a MCpl at a CSTC I can tell you that the CIC breaks down as follows:
10-15% of the officers are in it for the kids
85-90% are in it for themselves
I will tolerate alot from the first 15% for the very simple fact that they are doing thier best to provide the youth of this country with a citizenship and leadership program, the other 85% are a waste of time. Note this doesnot preclude me from doing my job as best as I can because if I didn‘t I‘d be as big a plug as that 85% I‘ve just talked about.
All in all, the military decided that these people would be officers, and does a horrible job in training them to be that.
I have worked for CIC officers that in my opinion were excellent officers, but they are, by far, in the minority.
Like I said if you want the CIC to be respected than CIC officers themselves have to make the change in that perception. The present perception may at times be overstated but it is well earned.
Having worked as a MCpl at a CSTC I can tell you that the CIC breaks down as follows:
10-15% of the officers are in it for the kids
85-90% are in it for themselves
I will tolerate alot from the first 15% for the very simple fact that they are doing thier best to provide the youth of this country with a citizenship and leadership program, the other 85% are a waste of time. Note this doesnot preclude me from doing my job as best as I can because if I didn‘t I‘d be as big a plug as that 85% I‘ve just talked about.
All in all, the military decided that these people would be officers, and does a horrible job in training them to be that.
I have worked for CIC officers that in my opinion were excellent officers, but they are, by far, in the minority.
Like I said if you want the CIC to be respected than CIC officers themselves have to make the change in that perception. The present perception may at times be overstated but it is well earned.
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fusilier955
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xFusilier nice to see more ppl from the PLF in the fourm.
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Jason Jarvis
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Having recently returned to cadets after a 10-year break, I agree 100% with xFusilier’s 15/85 assessment of CIC officers. Those in the 15% who really are there for the cadets tend to be the most professional, while the remaining 85% are useless egotists who need a good pounding.
I recently found out that one of my old squadron mates is now a CIC major. He’s 30! He was a two-bit, backstabbing sh*tpump ten years ago, so you can imagine how I felt when I heard he was a major. I know for a fact that he’s only in it for the personal glory, and I totally understand why any member of the PRes or RegF would have no patience with him. For me, anyways, he represents all that’s wrong about the CIC.
There are lots of good people in the CIC, but I can’t say that they’re all good officers. During my time as a cadet I always listened more to the PRes and RegF NCOs than the officers (CIL at the time), and a man that I feel played a formative role in my personal development was an air force reserve MWO –- thanks Gerry, blue skies forever -- who caused nothing but trouble all summer because almost all the officers on the course were tools.
Do former PRes and/or RegF personnel make better officers? Not necessarily, but they at least understand how the real military works and so are often able to make things happen more quickly and smoothly.
I recently found out that one of my old squadron mates is now a CIC major. He’s 30! He was a two-bit, backstabbing sh*tpump ten years ago, so you can imagine how I felt when I heard he was a major. I know for a fact that he’s only in it for the personal glory, and I totally understand why any member of the PRes or RegF would have no patience with him. For me, anyways, he represents all that’s wrong about the CIC.
There are lots of good people in the CIC, but I can’t say that they’re all good officers. During my time as a cadet I always listened more to the PRes and RegF NCOs than the officers (CIL at the time), and a man that I feel played a formative role in my personal development was an air force reserve MWO –- thanks Gerry, blue skies forever -- who caused nothing but trouble all summer because almost all the officers on the course were tools.
Do former PRes and/or RegF personnel make better officers? Not necessarily, but they at least understand how the real military works and so are often able to make things happen more quickly and smoothly.
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primer: no names, no pack drill
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thanks for a little back primer, and i just want to point out once again that a commission is a commission, no matter how you look at it. they are all signed by the same people and read the same thing. and i totally agree that there are a lot of CIC out there that shouldn‘t be in a uniform, but hey, you can‘t destroy the whole crop just because of a few bad apples. thats all i am trying to get accross.
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