Ban kirpan from Parliament: Bloc

[HavokFour]

Ban kirpan from Parliament: Bloc​

An emotionally charged debate over multiculturalism that has raged in Quebec in recent years has landed on the national stage and it centres on a ceremonial dagger worn by Sikhs.

MPs face a demand to ban the kirpan, which is worn at all times by at least one Ontario MP.

The discussion is being spurred by the Bloc Québécois, which promised Wednesday to take up the issue with the House of Commons' all-party decision-making body.

That announcement came one day after a headline-grabbing move by security guards at the Quebec legislature to deny entry to four Sikhs because some were carrying kirpans.

That incident became a flashpoint in the province's so-called "reasonable accommodation" debate, an ongoing discussion about where to draw the line on minority rights.

That issue has already been the topic, in Quebec, of impassioned public hearings that led to the government tabling legislation in the form of Bill 94.

The provincial bill would deny government services to Muslim women wearing face-coverings, but the Parti Québécois opposition wants it to go further and regulate kirpans.

Some commentators in English Canada expressed bafflement over this week's incident at the Quebec legislature. But commentary in the province has been almost universally positive, with some flashes of annoyance at the complaints from English Canada.

The Bloc Québécois wasted no time taking up the issue. The party released a statement applauding the previous day's move and announcing it would push the matter in Ottawa.

"It was a well-founded decision [in Quebec] and it is perhaps time that Parliament adopt similar rules," the Bloc's whip, Claude DeBellefeuille, said in a statement.

"It's not a debate about religious symbols or a social debate above and beyond that," she later told The Canadian Press. "It is really a security question and we have to look again at our practices."

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[larry Strong]

How many times do we have to beat this horse to death.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Another agenda looking for a pretext.

 

[George Wallace]

Has it already been that long that we have gone full circle and this is rearing its head again?  Isn't this on a ten year cycle?

 

[Kirkhill]

In support of our Sikh brethren, and in honour of the World's greatest poet ever born in Ayrshire, I propose that all Scots and honorary Scots, Sikh included, don Kilts and march into the House of Commons, on January 25th, replete with dirk and sgian dubh. 

 

[McG]

... all Scots ... replete with dirk and sgian dubh. 

I have also been wondering what our society's take would be if the kilted folk were to show-up properly dressed.  I assume the precedent has already been set.  Has Canada ever directed that an individual of Scottish heritage not be allowed his blades in Parliament?

I suppose it is possible the precedent is not set.  Would Canada be prepared to allow someone of a Texan heritage to wear a six shooter into Parliament? (the state has been around long enough, I assume we can recognize it has developed a recognized heritage and culture)

 

[Kat Stevens]

Only if I get to enter Parliament with a flick knife in me sock, and a Millwall brick in me pocket.

 

[Kirkhill]

Only if I get to enter Parliament with a flick knife in me sock, and a Millwall brick in me pocket.

Seems fair to me..... suitably culturally sensitive.  Up the Hammers.

 

[Kat Stevens]

Come On You Irons!!

This public service announcement brought to you by the ICF, frozen north division.

 

[midget-boyd91]

Simple solution:
Before entering the House of Commons anyone wishing to carry a religous or ceremonial blade into the building must acknowledge to Parliament security that they have the blade and intend to enter the HOC with it.

If someone has the intent to use a blade of any kind, be it a kirpan or a switchblade as a weapon, they are not going to surrender to security the fact that they are carrying the blade. So acknowledging that you have it is a simple way to allow those who wish to carry it as a religous or traditional manner in the HOC without a fuss. My opinion, of course.

 

[ballz]

Simple solution:
Before entering the House of Commons anyone wishing to carry a religous or ceremonial blade into the building must acknowledge to Parliament security that they have the blade and intend to enter the HOC with it.

If someone has the intent to use a blade of any kind, be it a kirpan or a switchblade as a weapon, they are not going to surrender to security the fact that they are carrying the blade. So acknowledging that you have it is a simple way to allow those who wish to carry it as a religous or traditional manner in the HOC without a fuss. My opinion, of course.

I would assume, if they intend on using it, and know that acknowledging they have it would get them a free pass, they would be more than happy to acknowledge they have it. I doubt someone intending on using plans on escaping HoC after they use it.

 

[midget-boyd91]

I would assume, if they intend on using it, and know that acknowledging they have it would get them a free pass, they would be more than happy to acknowledge they have it.

That did enter my mind, but my solution was for all intents and purposes a way to keep the status quo, while having the ability to accommodate those who wish to ban the kirpa for 'security' reasons.

Edit to add: Which of course brings up the question; Why not just keep the status quo?

 

[HavokFour]

Does it have to be sharp? Is it too much to just wear a blunt version in the House?

 

[larry Strong]

According to Hardeep Singh Kohli a British Sikh, there are small, symbolic kirpans that attach to combs that Sikhs keep in their hair. Similarly, there are small kirpan-shaped pendants are worn around the neck, which would fulfill the criteria of the faith that the dagger be ever present.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/belief/2010/feb/09/dagger-dilemma-sikhism-kirpan-schools

Seems like a easy solution to me...........

 

[Nemo888]

Kirpans can technically be any size. Why not just limit them to 4cm. It fulfills all their religious vows. If they demand one larger than that they are just compensating for something

 

[George Wallace]

As the just of their argument is that this is "for Public Safety", are they considering the kirpan a dangerous weapon?  If they are, then they may want to take a look around the room that they are sitting in.  There are hundreds of objects in the room that can be used as a weapon.  For instance, you can take your pen/pencil and use it to jab and kill someone who may annoy you in the next cubicle.  Are we now going to ban pens and pencils?

 

[ballz]

As the just of their argument is that this is "for Public Safety", are they considering the kirpan a dangerous weapon?  If they are, then they may want to take a look around the room that they are sitting in.  There are hundreds of objects in the room that can be used as a weapon.  For instance, you can take your pen/pencil and use it to jab and kill someone who may annoy you in the next cubicle.  Are we now going to ban pens and pencils?

Come on... I agree that people are the danger but comparing a real dagger to a pencil?

 

[lethalLemon]

Apart from maybe say... Toronto... I live in Surrey; home to arguably THE largest Sikh community in Canada. I see  (baptised Sikhs are the Sikhs which are ones who are the majority of the Turban, Kirpan wearing Sikhs are called Khalsa Sikhs - however that does not mean non-Khalsa Sikhs do not) Sikhs all the time taking Public Transit, in the malls, working in Government buildings... hell even Sikhs working for YVR (Vancouver International Airport) Authority wear the Kirpan as it is required as a Khalsa Sikh to show and maintain their dedication to their faith. They are small, they remain in a sheath on a belt clip attached to their belts under clothing. A drawn Kirpan in the modern age in developed nations like Canada, are generally dulled as to prevent it from being used in violent manner.

Kirpan is a punjab word that literally mean "weapon for defense" and in the Fundamentalist ways of Sikhism, it is used as such - to actively prevent violence.

Unfortunately, you do get a few bad apples that spoil the bunch and have used it as a weapon; so maybe rather than banning the wear of the Kirpan and result in more Supreme Court cases citing the Charter - "s2(a). freedom of conscience and religion" - we could come up with a compromise and set regulations of dress for the House of Commons were it would state "for the greater good of the nation, but not to remove your status and devotion to those of Sikh faith, we politely ask you to adorn a miniature version of the Kirpan."

Something to that sort. Sikhs are some of the most kind, caring, and wise people I have ever met and it would be a blow to me if it were outright banned from the HoC. I know that [RCMP Sergeant] Baltej Singh Dhillon, the first RCMP Officer to wear a turban (and soon to be my father in-law), worked hard to fight for the right to wear a Turban to work - would find this as just another way to tear the nation part, but that's one thing.  I bet rather than going through all kinds of fighting to get the Kirpan banned, Sikhs would have no problem downsizing if the HoC/gov't/opposition just asked the Sikhs nicely.

 

[riggermade]

I've been following this the last few days. In 2006 there was a Supreme court ruling in Quebec allowing the wearing of the kirpan in schools.  Shortly after that there was a NDP motion allowing the wearing of the kirpan in the House of Commons, all the parties including the Bloc voted in favour.
I don't think this is so much a problem with the kirpan as it is the separtists trying to cause political chaos.
I listened to a Liberal MP yesterday on CFRA who was very well spoken speaking on this and he made alot of sense.  Not all Sikh's choose to wear it but he is one who does and all MP's know he wears it and have not had a problem.  He brought up the point of flying and he does not wear it, as he said with the heightened security it makes sense to not try and wear it on a plane.  Now this member has worn it while visiting Washington among other foreign goverments and has never had a problem.
As I said I think this is just the Bloc trying to make waves

 

[57Chevy]

Please leave grenades, bomb vests, and kirpans at the door
           
                      Thank you      The Management







*to correct spelling