Alleged PMO obstruction in SNC Lavalin case

[ModlrMike]

"The PM wants to be able to say that he has tried everything that he can, you know , within the legitimate tool box. He's quite determined-quite firm-he wants to know why the DPA route which parliament provided for, isn't being used. ..."

Mr Wernick may be the messenger, but there's no misunderstanding the message. It reeks of political interference by the PM.

 

[OldSolduer]

This gets curiouser and curiouser.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Mr Wernick sounds like Mr Conductor from Thomas the Tank Engine.

Ohhhh Mr Trudeau is firm, he's quite firm.. You don't want him to be cross  :

 

[PPCLI Guy]

https://nationalpost.com/news/politics/newsalert-justice-committee-releases-texts-recording-from-wilson-raybould?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR0cqViL17gnFgSX-vchxQQl6QLcwHuYJb3jcIrdFIlwiMdz3okEhF2gZDY#Echobox=1553891413

https://ourcommons.azureedge.net/data/ConversationJWRandWernick-e.m4a

Really interesting.  Raybould's recording of her conversation with Michael Wernick.

It hasn't changed my opinion on the overall situation but, having been on the phone for more than one of these types of conversations, and having learned to listen to the tone, I have to say I am more inclined towards a degree of empathy for Michael Wernick.

He, more than Raybould, sounds like the person between a rock and a hard place. 

Is he trying to shepherd her as a member of the Privy Council, the Cabinet or as the Attorney General?  He can't be trying to shepherd her as a Liberal party member. 

Edit - Darn, beaten to it!  ;D

Yup.  Add to that the fact that the Justice Minister (he would only talk to her that way as a Cabinet matter, and so one assumes he is not talking to the AG), was well aware that the conversation was being recorded, and hence could steer the conversation.  Notwithstanding the fact that this egregious mess reeks of hubris, meddling and incompetence, there is something about this whole affair that does not ring true - it feels like we are all being played. 

 

[SeaKingTacco]

Yup.  Add to that the fact that the Justice Minister (he would only talk to her that way as a Cabinet matter, and so one assumes he is not talking to the AG), was well aware that the conversation was being recorded, and hence could steer the conversation.  Notwithstanding the fact that this egregious mess reeks of hubris, meddling and incompetence, there is something about this whole affair that does not ring true - it feels like we are all being played.

It begs the question about why such high quality recordings of phone calls even exist in the first place. What, exactly, triggered JWR to meticulously record all of her interactions on this subject (maybe that is she did on every subject?)?

That said, regardless of her ulterior motives (if she has any), the PM and his staff appear to have been stupid enough to enter the ambush and trigger every single mine. That is on them.

Looks like the Liberal party should be in full blown civil war by the end of the weekend...

 

[Good2Golf]

Arrogance and hubris often leads one (or many) into the KZ... :nod:

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

I would record every single conversation I ever had if I was a politician in Ottawa, just saying.

 

[PPCLI Guy]

Arrogance and hubris often leads one (or many) into the KZ... :nod:

X marks the ZT1001.....

 

[Cloud Cover]

Yup.  Add to that the fact that the Justice Minister (he would only talk to her that way as a Cabinet matter, and so one assumes he is not talking to the AG), was well aware that the conversation was being recorded, and hence could steer the conversation.  Notwithstanding the fact that this egregious mess reeks of hubris, meddling and incompetence, there is something about this whole affair that does not ring true - it feels like we are all being played.

I think so too. At times it sounded far too rehearsed on her part, almost scripted vocabulary.

Also, on most smartphones there are apps one can download to record conversations. Usually, there is an audible sound (which I think I heard twice on the CTV clip) that notifies users the call is being recorded.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Keep in mind this is a woman that has always been an "Outsider", she is likely to have learned to cover her butt as she goes. In meetings with First Nations it was common to be recorded, never would they share it either. It's quite possible that she feels jilted and lied to, so is willing to bring the house down with her, she go back to her nation as a hero regardless and has both provincial and First Nation political futures ahead of her.

 

[Kirkhill]

Keep in mind this is a woman that has always been an "Outsider", she is likely to have learned to cover her butt as she goes. In meetings with First Nations it was common to be recorded, never would they share it either. It's quite possible that she feels jilted and lied to, so is willing to bring the house down with her, she go back to her nation as a hero regardless and has both provincial and First Nation political futures ahead of her.

And that is what I was getting at earlier, upthread, her support system - family, culture, gods, society, environment - owes nothing to Ottawa, Montreal or Toronto.  Those facts leave her free to act - a truly frightening thought for the Laurentian tribe.

 

[meni0n]

I think so too. At times it sounded far too rehearsed on her part, almost scripted vocabulary.

Also, on most smartphones there are apps one can download to record conversations. Usually, there is an audible sound (which I think I heard twice on the CTV clip) that notifies users the call is being recorded.

Kind of like repeating the same thing month after month but it doesn't really ring the bell ? If I have to say the same thing for months on end, I would sound like that as well.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

Kind of like repeating the same thing month after month but it doesn't really ring the bell ? If I have to say the same thing for months on end, I would sound like that as well.

And that is the other potential side of this. If this was the 10th? 40th? 100th? time she had to explain her point of view on this issue to someone in cabinet, the PMO or PCO, she would sound like she had rehearsed it by the time this phone call happened.

 

[ModlrMike]

Maybe she knew that the excrement was going to hit the fan that she was making sure nothing landed on her.

 

[Kirkhill]

And these are the official interactions.

How many times was she approached in caucus, or by fellow MPs?

 

[Haggis]

Some media outlets and pundits are now making hay over the question of the legality and the ethics of this recording.  I'm quite sure that JWR was fully conversant with the laws regarding this.  it is, in fact, legal for JWR to record telephone conversations she is a particpant in (CCC 184(2)(a)).  Legally, there is no prior notice required.  Ethically, prior notice could be expected or demanded and if the caller (Wernick) refused to consent to the recording he could choose to terminate the call.

To me, it's ironic that it came to light that Wernick was recorded after his sarcastic replies to the Justice Committee that he "wasn't wearing a wire" during his conversations with JWR.

 

[PuckChaser]

At what point would a (up until 2016) member of the bar, feel so pressured by the perceived political interference that she feel she would have to make a recording so she does not get railroaded by the Liberal Party and Justin Trudeau? Listening to the full tape, Wernick is stuck as a messenger carrying Trudeau's directives to her, and she makes it abundantly clear multiple times that she's trying to protect the PM from the appearance of impropriety. Looking at the totality of the witness statements, the PM and the PMO ignored the warnings and pushed ahead anyways.

Totally spits in the face of the rule of law that the PM espoused when talking about the Huawei CFO.

 

[Jarnhamar]

I'd say anyone who is knowingly recording themselves in a conversation is going to subconsciously be a little more articulate and precise with their language to the point where it may sound rehearsed.

Given the amount of pressure, subtle and not so subtle threats floating around JWR probably rehearsed every conversation before she had them. Who would blame her?

 

[Haggis]

I'd say anyone who is knowingly recording themselves in a conversation is going to subconsciously be a little more articulate and precise with their language to the point where it may sound rehearsed.

Watching CTV Power Play this afternoon where journalist Joyce Napier stated almost exactly that from the perspective of a journalist who is on live TV and knows that every word, phrase and nuance she utters could be replayed and dissected ad nauseum for weeks afterwards.  Why should any member of the MSM  expect any less from a senior cabinet minister?

 

[FJAG]

I'd say anyone who is knowingly recording themselves in a conversation is going to subconsciously be a little more articulate and precise with their language to the point where it may sound rehearsed.

Given the amount of pressure, subtle and not so subtle threats floating around JWR probably rehearsed every conversation before she had them. Who would blame her?

Knowingly recording yourself aside, anyone who is going to have a telephone conversation of the nature and substance she probably expected to have with Wernick would undoubtedly have gone over the points she wanted to make, had them in a list on her desk, rehearsed the discussion in her mind and kept contemporaneous notes (or in this case a recording) of the conversation. That's just common sense at that level in this type of situation.

Just as an aside I find it interesting that she made mention of the fact that they had their sh*t together on the Norman matter considering the allegations of PCO discussions of strategy with the prosecutors.

:cheers: