Active Shooter In NS. April 19 2020

[lenaitch]

Why frig with it if it works for their town? Adding a large, low density rural catchment with its own additional municipal governments would really muck some things up for them, if things have otherwise been going fine.

Beside issues with the tax base (whether or not the town is part of the county), I agree; I just assumed, perhaps wrongly, that the PS might see themselves as the nucleus. One does not necessarily translate well into the other. Ontario has created a number of geographically large single-tier municipalities but I don't know if folks in the far reaches of Ottawa, Chatham-Kent or Sudbury feel any better served under OPS than they did under the OPP.

 

[mariomike]

Don't know about emergency services labour costs in Nova Scotia.

But, this may be a worthwhile example for those with an interest in the subject,

Escalating Emergency Services Labour Costs and the Ontario Taxpayers’ Ability to Pay

https://www.amo.on.ca/sites/default/files/assets/DOCUMENTS/Reports/2011/EscalatingEmergencyServicesLabourCostsandOntarioTaxpayersAbilitytoPay20110408.pdf

 

[kratz]

Yes, Amherst is in Cumberland county. The good news is that the PD would only be dealing with one additional municipal council.

 

[lenaitch]

Yes, Amherst is in Cumberland county. The good news is that the PD would only be dealing with one additional municipal council.

What about Oxford? Wiki says it's an Incorporated municipality. I'll take your word for it as I don't know enough about the municipal structuring in NS. In my county in Ontario, there are two municipalities that, while physically/geographically within the county, are not part of its governance. They benefit from some county services, like EMS, but pay for it as a line item in their budgets.

 

[Halifax Tar]

SIU Concludes Review of Nova Scotia’s Onslow Fire Hall Incident – haligonia.ca

haligonia.ca

 

[Booter]

SIU Concludes Review of Nova Scotia’s Onslow Fire Hall Incident – haligonia.ca

haligonia.ca

i think the most important part of that decision are these paragraphs:

Based on everything SO1 and SO2 had seen and heard since coming on duty and what they had just observed, they had reasonable grounds to believe that AP2 was the killer and someone who would continue his killing rampage. They discharged their weapons in order to prevent further deaths or serious injuries.

The totality of the evidence establishes that the SOs had reasonable grounds to believe the person they saw, who was disobeying their orders, was the mass murderer who had, in the preceding hour, killed three more persons. Viewed objectively, in light of the protections afforded to peace officers by Section 25 of the Criminal Code, the totality of the circumstances, in what was a rapidly unfolding series of events, establishes that SO1 and SO2 had a lawful excuse when they discharged their firearms.

Accordingly, no criminal offence was committed, and no charges are warranted against either officer.

 

[brihard]

SIU Concludes Review of Nova Scotia’s Onslow Fire Hall Incident – haligonia.ca

haligonia.ca

Thanks for that, I didn’t know SIU had been asked to take a post-commission ‘second look’ at that incident. I’m not surprised that the conclusions remain the same, but it’s good that it was done.

Worth noting as a reminder that this review and the original SIRT investigation were limited strictly to whether those two RCMP officers committed criminal offences in the course of the ‘blue on blue’.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Lets just say the general reaction from Nova Scotians has been..... mixed.

I wasn't there, and I have never been a LEO, all I am observing is what I see, read and listen too.

For a province that generally supports its uniformed services, the RCMP is persona non grata to wide swaths of this provinces population anymore. And that sentiment continues to stick, and is growing I expect. The RCMP needs to engage is some positive community relations to rebuild these bridges.

 

[brihard]

Lets just say the general reaction from Nova Scotians has been..... mixed.

I wasn't there, and I have never been a LEO, all I am observing is what I see, read and listen too.

For a province that generally supports its uniformed services, the RCMP is persona non grata to wide swaths of this provinces population anymore. And that sentiment continues to stick, and is growing I expect. The RCMP needs to engage is some positive community relations to rebuild these bridges.

Shrug nothing unique to NS or to the RCMP there. That’s the profession and the public in a nutshell. The province has the policing they’re willing to (mostly but not entirely) pay for. While most rural policing is RCMP, far from all of it is.

Cumberland County explored whether other options were viable last year. They’re unhappy with the RCMP, but can’t seem to get any better options out on the table. It’s fine to talk about not liking a district model and wanting police in every town. So figure out how much better service you’re willing to fund and what infrastructure you’ll build to expand that physical footprint. Sell it to the taxpayers who you hope will re-elect you.

With the benefit of almost four years of hindsight, I’ve seen nothing that suggests that, had Colchester county been under a different regional or provincial policing model, the results that awful night and next morning would have been any different.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Shrug nothing unique to NS or to the RCMP there. That’s the profession and the public in a nutshell. The province has the policing they’re willing to (mostly but not entirely) pay for. While most rural policing is RCMP, far from all of it is.

Cumberland County explored whether other options were viable last year. They’re unhappy with the RCMP, but can’t seem to get any better options out on the table. It’s fine to talk about not liking a district model and wanting police in every town. So figure out how much better service you’re willing to fund and what infrastructure you’ll build to expand that physical footprint. Sell it to the taxpayers who you hope will re-elect you.

With the benefit of almost four years of hindsight, I’ve seen nothing that suggests that, had Colchester county been under a different regional or provincial policing model, the results that awful night and next morning would have been any different.

I get everything you're saying. Unfortunately the perception of poor management and leadership mixed with a perception of acts of cowardice that night will required the RCMPs actions alone to fix.

I expect we will see a provincial police force in the future. As the province continues to grow its tax base that will become a reality. Right or wrong, good or bad.

 

[RedFive]

I get everything you're saying. Unfortunately the perception of poor management and leadership mixed with a perception of acts of cowardice that night will required the RCMPs actions alone to fix.

I expect we will see a provincial police force in the future. As the province continues to grow its tax base that will become a reality. Right or wrong, good or bad.

This is, in my opinion anyways, part and parcel of the RCMP's preferred method of dealing with the public and media, which is to say nothing except the matter is being investigated, and even when that investigation is concluded in the RCMP's favour, never ever doing a "See? Told you" release.

If it were up to me, the RCMP would have fallen on a couple swords for this debacle, but we also would have ridden down at a full charge the politicians who left those members and detachments desperately understaffed, undertrained and under resourced. The taxpayer got the policing they were willing to pay for, regardless of the uniform they were wearing.

 

[brihard]

This is, in my opinion anyways, part and parcel of the RCMP's preferred method of dealing with the public and media, which is to say nothing except the matter is being investigated, and even when that investigation is concluded in the RCMP's favour, never ever doing a "See? Told you" release.

If it were up to me, the RCMP would have fallen on a couple swords for this debacle, but we also would have ridden down at a full charge the politicians who left those members and detachments desperately understaffed, undertrained and under resourced. The taxpayer got the policing they were willing to pay for, regardless of the uniform they were wearing.

I was glad to see Supt Chris Leather’s career survive and continue. He was the one who had receipts for political meddling in early investigative info release, and he assisted Brenda Lucki to find her seat under the bus.

 

[OldSolduer]

This is, in my opinion anyways, part and parcel of the RCMP's preferred method of dealing with the public and media, which is to say nothing except the matter is being investigated, and even when that investigation is concluded in the RCMP's favour, never ever doing a "See? Told you" release.

If it were up to me, the RCMP would have fallen on a couple swords for this debacle, but we also would have ridden down at a full charge the politicians who left those members and detachments desperately understaffed, undertrained and under resourced. The taxpayer got the policing they were willing to pay for, regardless of the uniform they were wearing.

Not a cop as you all know but we could replace RCMP with DND in the above and it would be similar.

 

[RangerRay]

I get everything you're saying. Unfortunately the perception of poor management and leadership mixed with a perception of acts of cowardice that night will required the RCMPs actions alone to fix.

I expect we will see a provincial police force in the future. As the province continues to grow its tax base that will become a reality. Right or wrong, good or bad.

They all talk a good game till they see what the bill was. Even in rich provinces like BC. I think it’s telling that the only municipality in BC to ditch the RCMP in recent times is the second largest in the province, and that was a boondoggle vanity project of the previous mayor.

I’d be shocked if the Region of Blue Noser Bay in Nova Scotia switches to a municipal force.

 

[Halifax Tar]

They all talk a good game till they see what the bill was. Even in rich provinces like BC. I think it’s telling that the only municipality in BC to ditch the RCMP in recent times is the second largest in the province, and that was a boondoggle vanity project of the previous mayor.

I’d be shocked if the Region of Blue Noser Bay in Nova Scotia switches to a municipal provincial force.

That's my prediction.

 

[Halifax Tar]

This is, in my opinion anyways, part and parcel of the RCMP's preferred method of dealing with the public and media, which is to say nothing except the matter is being investigated, and even when that investigation is concluded in the RCMP's favour, never ever doing a "See? Told you" release.

If it were up to me, the RCMP would have fallen on a couple swords for this debacle, but we also would have ridden down at a full charge the politicians who left those members and detachments desperately understaffed, undertrained and under resourced. The taxpayer got the policing they were willing to pay for, regardless of the uniform they were wearing.

You're definitely correct. There are a few politicians Cough Stephen McNeil Cough who should have gone to Davy Jones Locker for this as well.

 

[RangerRay]

That's my prediction.

Re: a provincial force in Nova Scotia (or any other province).

Colour me sceptical. That BC pulled the brakes on re-establishing the BCPP over ten years ago based on cost when there was popular will to do so, I doubt any other province will proceed when they see the bill.

The only way I see provinces and municipalities going their own way is if the RCMP divest themselves from contract policing. It’s too good a deal financially for everyone else.

 

[brihard]

The only way I see provinces and municipalities going their own way is if the RCMP divest themselves from contract policing. It’s too good a deal financially for everyone else.

With the exception of Alberta under a conservative government, I think you’re right.

 

[RangerRay]

With the exception of Alberta under a conservative government, I think you’re right.

I thought I heard they were suddenly quiet about the whole thing?

If they do go ahead, it will be purely for ideological reasons. Alberta taxpayers, already famously stingy, might not like the bill. If Surrey is any indication, it may even turn into a political clown show to boot!

 

[brihard]

I thought I heard they were suddenly quiet about the whole thing?

If they do go ahead, it will be purely for ideological reasons. Alberta taxpayers, already famously stingy, might not like the bill. If Surrey is any indication, it may even turn into a political clown show to boot!

Not saying they will, just that they conceivably could, and have both the political will and the ability - if they choose - to pay for it. There is some further incremental expansion of the Alberta sherrifs’ role being looked at.