A Deeply Fractured US

[brihard]

So your whole post was predicated on people floating ideas and wishful thinking on your part?

Some top Republicans have been talking about getting rid of the RNC chairman for at least 6 months. They aren't happy the way she works with McConnell pulling her strings. Naturally people are being looked at as replacement, with some openly talking about taking a run at it. This isn't a sole conspiracy by Trump.

No; I consider her words to go beyond ‘floating ideas’. It’s also consistent with Trump’s demonstrable record of using money donated through PACs to pay his private legal expenses. It’s also consistent with the absolutely rampant and undeniable nepotism that was a hallmark of his term as president. In the balance, I think it’s absolutely more likely than not that Donald Trump is trying to position Lara Trump to be co-chair of the RNC specifically in order to gain maximum possible advantage for Donald Trump. I don’t think that’s at all a stretch or unreasonable to believe.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

No; I consider her words to go beyond ‘floating ideas’. It’s also consistent with Trump’s demonstrable record of using money donated through PACs to pay his private legal expenses. It’s also consistent with the absolutely rampant and undeniable nepotism that was a hallmark of his term as president. In the balance, I think it’s absolutely more likely than not that Donald Trump is trying to position Lara Trump to be co-chair of the RNC specifically in order to gain maximum possible advantage for Donald Trump. I don’t think that’s at all a stretch or unreasonable to believe.

So your accusing a businessman of practicing normal Washington politics. Got it.

I'm going to quit before we get angry with each other.

 

[brihard]

So your accusing a businessman of practicing normal Washington politics. Got it.

Given your historical views on ‘normal Washington politics’ I’m surprised you don’t take more issue with that, but sure, let’s run with it. He’s certainly not the first nepotist, just one of the best.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Given your historical views on ‘normal Washington politics’ I’m surprised you don’t take more issue with that, but sure, let’s run with it. He’s certainly not the first nepotist, just one of the best.

OK, let's leave it there before we get pissing on each other. I'm good.

 

[kkwd]

Assuming your lawyer isn’t a doofus who literally fails to tick the “jury trial” box.

Where did you get your info? Here is a statement straight from the judge in this case.

"It would not have helped to make a motion. Nobody forgot to check off a box," Engoron said.

Engoron said the punishment being sought by the state is an "equitable" remedy, as opposed to a "legal" remedy.

A legal remedy is an award for damages, which can be determined by a jury. Earlier this year, a federal jury awarded the writer E. Jean Carroll $5 million in damages after finding Trump liable for sexual abuse and defamation. The damages were not an amount Trump took from her, but rather a sum the jury concluded might remedy the emotional, physical and reputational harm Trump had caused.

In the ongoing New York fraud case, the state is seeking $250 million in disgorgement, a kind of equitable remedy that is a clawback of ill-gotten gains — the amount of benefit that the state says Trump and the co-defendants personally received from alleged fraud. Authorities cannot ask a jury to make that kind of calculation.

"That leaves it up to the judge," Engoron said.

CBS Article

 

[brihard]

Where did you get your info? Here is a statement straight from the judge in this case.

CBS Article

Thanks for that, I stand corrected. Like I said, I haven’t followed the civil stuff particularly closely. The best I’ve gathered is that Alina Habba’s performance as counsel was far from impressive, but good to know she didn’t make that basic a mistake.

 

[kkwd]

Thanks for that, I stand corrected. Like I said, I haven’t followed the civil stuff particularly closely.

That's the deep dark trap of social media, you never can trust that stuff.

 

[kkwd]

It's not necrssary. We all agree with you that an AG has to follow legal ethics.

The problem here is that some see the prosecution of a law breaker as the persecution of an innocent man. Some take offence at any action that they interpret as "pilling on" against an innocent man as a sign of corruption. We don't even see it as "piling on" but simply the actions that any AG would take when a conviction is secured.

Trump has been found guilty. Take that as a given for the time being and let the legal, including appeal, processes play out. We'll all see where it goes together.

Is your legal opinion Trump was found guilty and convicted of a crime? I thought it was a summary judgement in a civil trial.
Judgement

 

[FJAG]

Is your legal opinion Trump was found guilty and convicted of a crime? I thought it was a summary judgement in a civil trial.
Judgement

Mea culpa - I got carried away by the fraud aspect. You're of course right, it was a civil action.

 

[The Bread Guy]

So your whole post was predicated on people floating ideas and wishful thinking on your part? ...

From the AP piece ....

I haven't seen a correction from AP, or a clarification or denial from any of the principals quoted. People can read this as they see fit - judge away, folks.

 

[QV]

Trump just stomped Haley in her home state. I guess the only thing left to do to is to try and bankrupt, jail, or manufacture ways to make the front runner ineligible. This is only going to get more entertaining as the establishment starts openly cooking with gas to throw the next election.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

From the AP piece ....
View attachment 83389
I haven't seen a correction from AP, or a clarification or denial from any of the principals quoted. People can read this as they see fit - judge away, folks.

She's still just floating ideas. Only an idiot limits their own options. She's not even in the position to decide anything. Why do people get so wrapped around the axle about hypotheticals. Wait and see if she wins first, then you can set your hair on fire.

 

[KevinB]

Trump just stomped Haley in her home state. I guess the only thing left to do to is to try and bankrupt, jail, or manufacture ways to make the front runner ineligible. This is only going to get more entertaining as the establishment starts openly cooking with gas to throw the next election.

If you look at the numbers, the vast amount of independents came out for Haley.

Which means that Trump is unelectable in the end game. It doesn’t matter how many Republicans vote for Trump, as the Democrats, Independents and Never Trump Republicans won’t. So he will not win the election.

 

[brihard]

If you look at the numbers, the vast amount of independents came out for Haley.

Which means that Trump is unelectable in the end game. It doesn’t matter how many Republicans vote for Trump, as the Democrats, Independents and Never Trump Republicans won’t. So he will not win the election.

Trump seems to be consistently underperforming the polling in the primaries. He can win his party and probably will; not sure he can win the country.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Trump has to beat Biden, and he is still polling above Biden in head-to-heads - substantially so in some of the states where it really matters. State-wide polls of the states which are expected to be narrowly decided are a vastly superior predictor than national polls of the popular vote (which doesn't decide the election). I suggest paying more attention to the former than the latter, and none at all to wishful thinking.

 

[dimsum]

Trump has to beat Biden, and he is still polling above Biden in head-to-heads - substantially so in some of the states where it really matters. State-wide polls of the states which are expected to be narrowly decided are a vastly superior predictor than national polls of the popular vote (which doesn't decide the election). I suggest paying more attention to the former than the latter, and none at all to wishful thinking.

How do they conduct the polls though?

If it’s the old school “calling phones”, how many folks under the age of 50 will answer unknown calls, and/or have landlines?

 

[Remius]

How do they conduct the polls though?

If it’s the old school “calling phones”, how many folks under the age of 50 will answer unknown calls, and/or have landlines?

Depending on the methodology that is accounted for.

 

[Remius]

If you look at the numbers, the vast amount of independents came out for Haley.

Which means that Trump is unelectable in the end game. It doesn’t matter how many Republicans vote for Trump, as the Democrats, Independents and Never Trump Republicans won’t. So he will not win the election.

That is what must keep some GOP strategists up at night.

Independants and never trumpers who will either stay home, spoil their vote or vote Biden.

 

[Remius]

She's still just floating ideas. Only an idiot limits their own options. She's not even in the position to decide anything. Why do people get so wrapped around the axle about hypotheticals. Wait and see if she wins first, then you can set your hair on fire.

It wasn’t a hypothetical per se when this was brought.

It was a theory that Nikki Haley is only staying on long enough for the RNC to make some changes to prevent the RNC from having to pay for Trump’s legal fees when he becomes the candidate. That internal machination is currently going on. Motions have been tabled to do so. Maga is trying to wrest control and GOP types are trying to stall it as long as they can.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

It wasn’t a hypothetical per se when this was brought.

It was a theory that Nikki Haley is only staying on long enough for the RNC to make some changes to prevent the RNC from having to pay for Trump’s legal fees when he becomes the candidate. That internal machination is currently going on. Motions have been tabled to do so. Maga is trying to wrest control and GOP types are trying to stall it as long as they can.

Theories and rumours aside, Haley is done as of March 5, next Tuesday. AFP Action, her biggest supporter, has stopped funding her. Trump pulled 20 delegates from her in SC. That gives him 110 over her 20 and he'll likely pull most of the remaining 874 Super Tuesday. She didn't attend CPAC, which ended up being a Trump Fest, including leaders from conservative countries against socialism.

Motions have been made, as you say. As far as MAGA wresting control of the RNC, that will be determined by a democratic vote. You don't wrest control, when a majority supports it. They know what's on the table, it'll be up to a majority to decide what path they wish to follow. If they decide for Trump, so be it. If they don't they don't.

There's change coming to the GOP, no doubt. History will decide whether they make the right decision or not. I think though, you are going to see Never Trumpers and RINOs being voted out in favour of MAGA candidates. People like McConnell have shown themselves for who they are and lots of voters are not happy with them, at all. If the RNC goes to MAGA, you'll have your answer. Unless something drastic happens, Trump will be the GOP candidate in July.