You're getting it......for whatever purpose (RG-31 with RWS)

[Kirkhill]

The headline is occasioned by the speculation as to whether this vehicle was to be a recce vehicle, a command and liaison vehicle or a troop carrier.

Regardless of its actual role I am sure it will be put to good use.

A million bucks a vehicle eh?.   Well, cheaper than a LAV and everything is pretty pricey these days.   The RWS alone goes for something around $250,000.

Good luck with them.

General Dynamics Awarded $60 Million Contract to Supply RG-31 Mine Protected Vehicles to the Canadian Military
 
 
(Source: General Dynamics Land Systems â “ Canada; issued Nov. 29, 2005)
 
 
LONDON and ONTARIO, Canada --- The Government of Canada has awarded a CAD $60.3 million (US $51.3 million) contract to General Dynamics Land Systems - Canada to provide 50 RG-31 Mine Protected Vehicles with an option for 25 additional vehicles. General Dynamics Land Systems, the Canadian company's parent corporation, is a business unit of General Dynamics.  

Under this contract, General Dynamics Land Systems - Canada will provide program management and engineering and logistics support while BAE Land Systems OMC of South Africa will manufacture the vehicles. The vehicles will incorporate a Kongsberg Protector M151 Remote Weapon Station, equipped with a day and night sighting system, which allows the operator to fire the weapon while remaining protected within the vehicle. Deliveries will occur from February to April 2006.  

The RG-31 tactical vehicle offers excellent ballistic and mine blast protection, and will be used by the Canadian Forces in their upcoming operations in Afghanistan.  

John Ulrich, senior vice president of General Dynamics Land Systems - Canada, said, "We are pleased to once again have an opportunity to provide the Canadian Forces with another world-class product to assist and protect Canadian soldiers as they undertake the challenge of another overseas mission."  

General Dynamics Land Systems - Canada is currently delivering 148 RG-31 vehicles to the U.S. Army in fulfillment of a contract awarded earlier this year. The Canadian Army has previously deployed three RG-31 vehicles as part of its contribution to the International Security Assistance Force in Afghanistan. In addition, the vehicles have been extensively used by NATO forces in the former Yugoslavia as well as by the United Nations in Lebanon, Georgia, Syria, Bosnia and Herzegovina, and Kosovo.  


General Dynamics Land Systems - Canada, located in London, Ontario, Canada, is a business unit of General Dynamics Land Systems of Sterling Heights, Michigan. For more than 25 years, approximately 1,500 highly skilled technical personnel have designed, manufactured and delivered a unique family of light armoured vehicles.  

-ends-  

 

http://www.defense-aerospace.com/cgi-bin/client/modele.pl?session=dae.16836444.1133365624.Q43JeMOa9dUAAHHX65o&modele=jdc_34

Here's a link to a brochure on the Kongsberg RWS.

http://www.kongsberg.com/dokumenter/protechxproductark/kda/english/Protector_RWS_04.pdf

And to the RG-31

http://www.baesystemsomc.co.za/Default.aspx?tabid=648

 

[McG]

The headline is occasioned by the speculation as to whether this vehicle was to be a recce vehicle, a command and liaison vehicle or a troop carrier.

It will be all the above. 

 

[Tebo]

From the maker at http://www.baesystemsomc.co.za/Default.aspx?tabid=648, the RG-31 is the mine-protected vehicle of choice of peacekeepers.  Fantastic. It also finds favour with NGOs because of it's non-threatening stature.

Now I have a question.  Does anyone know if this vehicle has an option for firing ports?

 

[KevinB]

Its also favoured by Blackwater and other PSC's as well as the South African Army -- hardly what I would call the bastion of Peacekeepers...


Not sure if we subsrcibed to the firing port versions.  A few of out Engineer brethern who crewed the Nyala's in Afghan could tell you.

 

[McG]

Not sure if we subsrcibed to the firing port versions.   A few of out Engineer brethern who crewed the Nyala's in Afghan could tell you.

Assuming that the new vehicles are the same package as what we already have.  Given the RWS, I am certain that we are getting different packages.

 

[Kirkhill]

This may be another characteristicallly silly question/observation but...

Given that you may be getting some different variants, and if so not all variants need be supplied with the RWS system is it fair to ask if this pig could be a "stealth" vehicle in an urban environment?

LAVs and Bradleys look like military vehicles and stand out in a street-scape at a considerable distance.  You can easily pick them out in the middle of a bunch of sedans, pickups and trucks.  This thing (in addition to not looking so "aggressive") also looks pretty much like a truck, especially if it doesn't have the RWS mounted.  Coated with a layer of dust, is it going to make it easier for troops to approach more closely and more unobtrusively when operating in cities?  It does seem likely that it will more easily blend in with the scenery ....

 

[Big Red]

Given that you may be getting some different variants, and if so not all variants need be supplied with the RWS system is it fair to ask if this pig could be a "stealth" vehicle in an urban environment?

LAVs and Bradleys look like military vehicles and stand out in a street-scape at a considerable distance.   You can easily pick them out in the middle of a bunch of sedans, pickups and trucks.   This thing (in addition to not looking so "aggressive") also looks pretty much like a truck, especially if it doesn't have the RWS mounted.   Coated with a layer of dust, is it going to make it easier for troops to approach more closely and more unobtrusively when operating in cities?   It does seem likely that it will more easily blend in with the scenery ....

NO, you can see them coming a mile away even when painted white, grey, black, blue, red.  The vehicle is twice as tall as a normal car.

 

[Big Red]

From the maker at http://www.baesystemsomc.co.za/Default.aspx?tabid=648, the RG-31 is the mine-protected vehicle of choice of peacekeepers.   Fantastic. It also finds favour with NGOs because of it's non-threatening stature.

Now I have a question.   Does anyone know if this vehicle has an option for firing ports?

It has an option for every single window on the vehicle to have a firing port, including the front ones. It's also available with two turrets, choose what you want to mount.

I'm really suprised the CF has ordered this many so quickly without any political squabbling. I'd certainly rather ride in one than a G-wagon if I were doing convoy escort. Not sure all 60 of them needed to be the high end models, but if someone wants the spend the cash, who's to argue?

 

[Kirkhill]

NO, you can see them coming a mile away even when painted white, grey, black, blue, red.  The vehicle is twice as tall as a normal car.

Shot down in flames again. ;D.

Thanks.

 

[armybuck041]

I for one think this is great news....

Having spend lots of time in both the Mamba as a Recce Driver on Palladium Roto II and the Nyala as the Engr Recce Sgt on Athena Roto III, I can't think of a more well rounded, safer and rugged vehicle.

 

[Big Red]

Hopefully the new ones are something closer to this.

 

[Tebo]

Thanks for the course correction KevinB.  Apparently, I see red when confronted with 'peace keeper' and Canada.  The logistics and protection of a LUV-W light coy seemed a little dubious, this makes far more sense.  Dare I say common sense?

 

[KevinB]

Big Red -- unfortunately we subscribed to the hide inside your vehicle RWS. 
  So much for being out and observing...

The CF is doing the GWagon Fishbowl routine again.  - We will lose more troops since they cannot "smell the flowers" than we woudl with an open gunner like your pic.

Anyone who has seen the SOF Hummers - they are open and bristling with guns  -- people tend not to mess with them - for they are mostly (right XXXX  ;D - wait for his book) paying attention and going to see IED's or VBIED's before they are hit with them - and kill anyone dumb enough to get in a sa fight with them.

The Fishbowl routine has people deaf dumb and stupid.

 

[a_majoor]

A field expedient solution without looking at the problem. Yes, it is protection for the crew against certain threats, but how are they to do their job using that vehicle? (A whole nes set of TTPs needs to be developed for certain).

As a recce vehicle, it is difficult to see just how the crew can use it effectively. To paraphrase another thread, is this thing "Sabre" or "Stealth"?

 

[couchcommander]

Question here,

I am confused as to how this new vehicle is going to be employed? My previous understanding of the Nyala was that it was a specialist vehicle used for route clearing, as it had excellent mine resistance.

With the purcahse of 50 (?) of them, I am now wondering exactly how these vehicles will fit into operations, as compared to the G-Wagons, LAVIII's and Coyotes? (In short, what will they be used for in Afghanistan? And yes, don't worry, I do realize that G-Wagons, LAV III's, and Coyotes are different vehicles , but it seems like this might be intended to take some roles typically assigned to these different vehicles and integrate them into one platform.... or not????)

EDIT:

The mine resistance is really impressive, but they don't give specific data on the armouring for the sides of the vehicle other than small arms (does that mean 7.62 AP?). I would hope given that it's supposed to be able to resist massive tank mines, and weighs like 11 tons, the armouring overall would be greater than something like a Duro, maybe even Bison equivalent (I don't know, anyone?)? If it does, and combined with the capability of the RWS (day/night capability and IR), range, speed, capacity for GIBs, lower profile than LAV III, more manouverable... might it be the answer to our hunt in the "Maybe new Recce vehicle" thread????

The entire fishbowl thing seems as though it would be manageable, to me (heh), comments?

 

[KevinB]

It will replace the G Wagon for most patrol functions in my understanding.

So you will have LAV, Coyote and Nyala's operating "outside the wire"  -- plus some GWagons C&R's - but I am guessing they will get pushed into CIMIC, and ADMIN roles...

 

couch -- I've done the Iltis/SUV thing and the Fishbowl GWagon -- give me the SUV (plus my hair looks better in them )

 

[McG]

My previous understanding of the Nyala was that it was a specialist vehicle used for route clearing, as it had excellent mine resistance.

No.  It was not used form route clearing.  Short of hitting a mine (which you do not want to do even in a Nyala), the vehicle has no way of clearing mines from the ground.  It was used for route recces intended to determine the mine threat (though even many Engr incorrectly reffered to this as "route prooving").

I am confused as to how this new vehicle is going to be employed?

Replace the G-Wagon as the light section vehicle, liaison vehicle, etc.  It will also continue to be used by engr for recce of the ground.

 

[DG-41]

liaison vehicle

Whoohoo! Combat LO!

So maybe we train in GWagon recce and then deploy in this thing? The extra armour (over a GWagon) is nice, and it looks like it has a bunch of roof hatches.

Sure 'nuff is big though.

Should I be concerned that half the pics showed stuck/rolled vehicles?

DG

 

[McG]

Looks like we have gone with a new RWS for the RG-31.  Same one as the US Stryker: http://www.kongsberg.com/dokumenter/protechxproduktark/kda/english/Protector_RWS_04.pdf

(The current system: http://www.oerlikon.ca/en/products/arme/pws.htm)

 

[Kirkhill]

Interesting to note that the factory blurb says that the Javelin ATGM has already been integrated into the system.   Would that be of any interest to the   Recce types or the Inf Combat Support types?